Mount evolution, how necessary is it?


Rules Questions

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

Many of the things the ride skill does don't really seem applicable to eidolons. If I ride the thing without the evolution, taking the -5 penalty, what is that really going to hurt?

I don't need to use ride to direct the mount, it follows my mental/verbal commands. I would have a tough time doing the fancier tricks (cover, soft fall, leap, quick mount/dismount) but other than those I don't really see what it interferes with.
At lvl 2 (when i take my first summoner level) even with the penalty I'll be able to auto-succeed the DC 5 check to stay in the saddle, so how much do I really need it?

Another question for society specifically, if I use a lion as my mount, can I have an eidolon as my combat animal if I don't ride him?


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber

See this thread about the penalties for riding an untrained eidolon.

I don't understand your second question. Can you rephrase it please ?

Grand Lodge

SlimGauge wrote:

See this thread about the penalties for riding an untrained eidolon.

I don't understand your second question. Can you rephrase it please ?

In society play there is a limit to the number of companion creatures a given PC may take with him unto combat. Basically you can have a mount and a combat animal. Eidolons always count as a combat animal, so my question is if I am riding a lion (surprisingly, a combat trained lion is a legal mount in PFS, and cheap to boot) does it count under the mount category for the purposes of my companion cap thus allowing my eidolon to remain in combat?

The context of these questions is that I would like to make a human mounted summoner, as it is a feat hungry build compared to a more 'vanilla' summoner. By being a human dragoon fighter just for first level I can get Mounted Combat, Skill Focus (Ride), Ride-by attack, and Undersized Mount (from the ACG). Undersized Mount would allow me to ride my Medium eidolon, but unfortunately the Mount evolution itself states that the eidolon must be one size category larger than the rider in order to be selected. Thus, my plan is to buy a lion during 1st level and ride it around until its inevitable demise (probably sometime during fifth level) and then switch to the eidolon.

I read that thread you posted, and again I don't think the checks referenced are pertinent. Guide with the knees (which I'd autosucced, but) should not be necessary, as the eidolon can be guided with a simple mental command unlike a horse. Combat trained, it is my understanding, prevents an animal from getting scared and running away in battle. As a sentient oursider, I would think eidolons "combat trained" by default.

Grand Lodge

You have it wrong, it is not a Mount AND a Combat Animal, it is a Mount OR a Combat Animal.

You can only have one in PFS.

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.
Drake Brimstone wrote:

You have it wrong, it is not a Mount AND a Combat Animal, it is a Mount OR a Combat Animal.

You can only have one in PFS.

I'm reading the faq here an I'm not really sure how to interpret it. The last sentence clearly states that a mount and animal companion can be used simultaneously, and the faq had previously clarified that for the purposes of this rule an eidolon is considered an animal companion. However, the beginning of the section says that you can only have 1 combat animal in a given scenario. The faq seems with itself at odds. Would someone mind tagging this for faq? My thought is that I can ride something and have an eidolon on the side, but whatever I ride can't attack. Dunno.


Le Petite Mort wrote:
Undersized Mount would allow me to ride my Medium eidolon, but unfortunately the Mount evolution itself states that the eidolon must be one size category larger than the rider in order to be selected.

If you read the feat's 'normal' section, "Typically a mount suited for you is at least one size category larger than you." The Mount evolution is just restating that 'normal'. The feat should override the mount evolution's restrictions since it's the same as the 'normal' rule.

I should note that the 'normal' wasn't written before the feat, but seems to have been an unwritten rule based on mounts given out by classes.

Grand Lodge

graystone wrote:
Le Petite Mort wrote:
Undersized Mount would allow me to ride my Medium eidolon, but unfortunately the Mount evolution itself states that the eidolon must be one size category larger than the rider in order to be selected.

If you read the feat's 'normal' section, "Typically a mount suited for you is at least one size category larger than you." The Mount evolution is just restating that 'normal'. The feat should override the mount evolution's restrictions since it's the same as the 'normal' rule.

I should note that the 'normal' wasn't written before the feat, but seems to have been an unwritten rule based on mounts given out by classes.

I'm not so sure. Mount is an eidolon extraordinary ability, not the exact same thing as the combat-trained suite of animal tricks (though that is exactly what it grants). Technically the caveat in the mount ability is more specific than the feats general ability to allow the PC to ride creatures of its size without penalty. In other words, while my Human summoner is good at riding Medium creatures, my eidolon has no idea how to support a Medium creature.

I'd really like a ruling.


I see it as the Mount evolution is only allowed for 'suitable' mounts, going along with the general rule that "suitable' mounts are at least one size larger than you. The feat changes what is suitable though, so I'd call the feat more specific than the feat.

I agree though that a ruling would be nice but I wouldn't hold my breathe. There are a HUGE pile of questions in the queue about this book.

Grand Lodge

graystone wrote:
There are a HUGE pile of questions in the queue about this book.

I know. Though at this point I'm considering just going Dragoon all the way, as the mounts you can buy straight cash are about as good as 6-8 HD eidolons, and I can just be a full BAB martial (I have enough casters already). The issue I'm running into is getting reach on a store bought animal. I could go Polearm Master and shorten the grip so I can hit at the same time as my critter, but that penalty is annoying and I like Dragoons class features better. If I could just give a rhino a longer neck.

Also, I agree that your interpretation of the rule is the most sensible one, but RAW doesn't always care about that. For a home game, I'd probably be fine - society play will await this build until I have a ruling.

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