randomwalker Goblin Squad Member |
Simple question:
looking in the GW "sample crafting and refining" guide, i see a lot of seemingly basic recipes that require (IMO) disproportionally high refining ranks to make.
example1: footpad's leathers. This appears to be the "starter rogue armor" given at leatherworker rank 2 , but requires a weaver rank 7 padding. For comparison the starter fighter armor (hide and steel banded) only requires rank 3 components. Reaching weaver level 7 is a significant xp cost, and players at these levels have likely outgrown rank 2 armors...
example2: introductory trophy charm. This appears to be the "starter fighter feature item" given at jeweler rank 1, but requires smelter rank 6 silver bars.
Question: are item ranks for refining equal to the minimum skill level for making them, or can you make them at lower skill (given the recipe) just using correspondingly longer time?
DeciusBrutus Goblinworks Executive Founder |
Stephen Cheney Goblinworks Game Designer |
Keep in mind that everyone attempting to craft soup-to-nuts right now is an aberration caused by lack of a market and everyone clustered at the low end of the level scale. We'll look back at it once the server economy is in full swing to see if it's still resulting in weird behavior.
But, in general, there was no attempt to match refining and crafting recipes together at the same ranks so someone leveling up both got synergy out of it. Instead, they're meant to be done be completely different players. Someone trying to make leather armor should ultimately check the market for the padding. Meanwhile, a weaver who got to rank 7 is very excited, because now he can make padding, which is an in-demand item.
Guurzak Goblin Squad Member |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
There are a couple of problems with that mismatch, though, beyond just "crafting isn't a one-person job."
One of them is the cold start. Rogues will not get any armor until almost a week into the game. That problem goes away, but it's going to be a painful week.
Another is economic, and that isn't going away. Rank 2 armor is made by rank 2 leatherworkers who have approximately zero money, and sold to 1st and 2nd level characters who have approximately zero money. A refiner making tier 7 components is going to expect a little more reward for his effort than that. So either basic leather armor will be more expensive than anyone who would want to wear it can afford to pay, or, weavers who cannot get what they think is a decent price for their paddings will simply make something else to sell to players with money.
TEO Cheatle Goblin Squad Member |
T7V Jazzlvraz Goblin Squad Member |
randomwalker Goblin Squad Member |
Hardin Steele Goblin Squad Member |
randomwalker Goblin Squad Member |
...We'll look back at it once the server economy is in full swing to see if it's still resulting in weird behavior.
I suppose this is good enough for now, seeing as you may have other stuff too on the to-do list.
After a weeks the cold start problems should be over, so the issue may more or less resolve itself.
Tyncale Goblin Squad Member |
It exites me that you really need to pick a dedicated path at the exclusion of other paths(at least temporary), in order to become really proficient in that path in a reasonable timeframe(months). Maybe some people could reach SWG-levels of "Crafter-fame" again in PFO. Including having to hoof it all the way to the settlement where he sells his wares. But now with more danger!
I realize that in SWG the complexity (with the different quality resources) was deeper, where crafters could really make something special(+0.15 something) if they were dedicated, so this may not be true after all. But I still like to think that you will not be able to find a Leatherworker that can make the best Tier 3 Jerkins there are, around every corner.
It also exites me that choosing such a path is not a matter of poopsocking it to Master-crafter in a week, but requires an investment in both time (XP being on a monthly limit) and money. For a casual chum like me who can't put in 12 hours a day, I feel like I can make chance now of running with the big boys (crafters). :)
Off course it needs a lot more then just XP and money, you will need your Settlement buddies and the rest of the world to provide all the rest.
Being Goblin Squad Member |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
If we are starting out with only a stick to defend ourselves with then I highly recommend that the developer should expend the time to study the materials required to make the lowest tier of every item that will be needed, because there are some fairly high level requirements for the lowest level iconography recipes, the most simple armors, and the most basic of weapons, not to mention the required materials for spellcraft.
I really don't think a laissez-faire approach to crafting is going to serve GW very well at all. Please consider this point and give the infrastructure thought, because if we are starting 'cold' we're going to have to be able to make stuff.
Being Goblin Squad Member |
It exites me that you really need to pick a dedicated path at the exclusion of other paths(at least temporary), in order to become really proficient in that path in a reasonable timeframe(months).
It can be exciting, but in order to get to that point, to keep players in the game long enough to have that tier 7 component, then the players are going to have to be able to make things in the meantime.
It is a very long ways to T7 padding when everyone has no more than a stick to fight omega wolves and bandits.
Guurzak Goblin Squad Member |
Being Goblin Squad Member |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I haven't yet had a sepia crystal +0 drop. No copper ore whatsoever and I need a copper bar to craft lowest level focus. If crafters cannot make anything they cannot progress to anything. Unless the early crafting ecosystem is carefully built we will never see tier 7 anything. We have to be able to get there before we can be there. Someone was able to craft a +3 sword, but what it takes to make a sword is quite different from a staff or a wand or a focus or holy symbol.
If we cannot make things we cannot gain the achievements needed to progress.
Lam Goblin Squad Member |
Guurzak Goblin Squad Member |
Caldeathe Baequiannia Goblin Squad Member |
I haven't yet had a sepia crystal +0 drop. No copper ore whatsoever and I need a copper bar to craft lowest level focus. If crafters cannot make anything they cannot progress to anything. Unless the early crafting ecosystem is carefully built we will never see tier 7 anything. We have to be able to get there before we can be there. Someone was able to craft a +3 sword, but what it takes to make a sword is quite different from a staff or a wand or a focus or holy symbol.
If we cannot make things we cannot gain the achievements needed to progress.
Even after giving a bunch of raw components to Cheatle, I have a large volume gathered from various places. (I've focused almost exclusively on sneaking around gathering in stealth) Since refining and crafting are not my forte's, I'm willing to give items away if it will help test the crafting process. I don't recall any sepia crystals, but have copper and coal.
I'll be online tonight, either before or after ATWaBW* if you want to try. I also managed to conduct inter-character trades without leaving Sotterhill last night. I think patience is the key.
* Adventure Time without any Bonnys Whatsoever, tonight at 9:00pm EDT in the Sotterhill Market
Ravenlute Goblin Squad Member |
Being Goblin Squad Member |
Caldeathe Baequiannia Goblin Squad Member |
Caldeathe Baequiannia wrote:I've focused almost exclusively on sneaking around gathering in stealthThere should be some stealth achievements shouldn't there?
To be honest, I haven't paid any attention to my achievements. I couldn't even tell you what levels the character have in any roles, except that I had to go looking for a couple of things last night because I couldn't pick up a skill I wanted unless I hit Cleric one, and that once I did so, a few more clicks took me to Cleric 4.
Caldeathe Baequiannia Goblin Squad Member |
That's a good point. Everybody who bought into the kickstarter should be starting with a new player pack (and an alliance pack?) so there shouldn't be any naked-with-a-club stuff going on for the most part.
Assuming they've fixed (as in established the parameters of) and coded the packs....