How many ways can you add dmg to Acid Splash?


Advice


I recently heard that you can add 1 damage to the Cantrip Acid Splash by using an Acid Flask as a Focus. (Pathfinder Player Companion: Adventurer's Armory)

Are there other ways to add extra damage to it? Someone was telling me he was doing about 14dmg per spray but I didn't get the details.

Scarab Sages

Point blank shot is +1
Flag bearer is another +1
Havoc of the society trait +1
Crossblooded Orc/draconic bloodline +2

I'm sure there is more, this was off the top of my head.


Sneak attack


Well, there's the point blank shot feat that should apply.

Plus, sorcerer bloodlines arcana like orc, dragon and elemental. Using crossblooded orc/dragon or elemental with acid that's a +2.

There are traits if I remember well that adds +1 do damage to a spell.
Ah yes, if you're allowed to combine "havoc of the society" and "elemental pupil (acid)" you should get another +2.

Oh, and if you're an arcane trickster (or have sneak attack in some other way) you should be able to deliver sneak attacks with it for a potentially very devastating ranged touch attack that ignore SR, especially considering that depending on the reading of the rules each of the additional sneak attacks dices should get modified with that nasty crossblooded sorcerer bonus damage.

I guess that a rogue could do worse than take a 1/2 lvl dip in a crossblooded orc/brass dragon sorcerer that know only detect magic, acid splash, prestidigitation and vanish, and with a couple of related traits (like magical knack for extra invisibility rounds or something similar).

Plus, maybe I'm forgetting some other way to increase it further...

Edit: ninja'd

Silver Crusade

Elemental Pupil will not work as it specifically calls out spells of 1st level or higher.

RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

Dwarf Sorcerer FCB: +1/2 to damage from acid spells.


Owning a flask of acid adds 1 point damage when used as a focus material.
The other damage cantrips have additional methods which only work on rays, which acid splash is not. Inspire courage and flagbearer for example.

Things that work:
- Havoc of the society
- Acid as power component
- sorc bloodline arcana

Things that work on rays but not acid splash:
- Point blank shot (the to hit bonus applies)
- Flagbearer
- inspire courage
- for evocation spells the evoker wizard school power intense spells

Rays count as weapons while acid splash doesn't as far as I know. Because of that everything that states increasing weapon damage doesn't apply.

Edit: If you are not a sorc then the traits mindlessly cruel or zest for battle can work when combined with flagbearer.


Alchemical Reagents in the PF Alchemy Manual have Brimstone/Sulfur doses that add +1 damage to Acid spells.


Umbranus wrote:

Owning a flask of acid adds 1 point damage when used as a focus material.

The other damage cantrips have additional methods which only work on rays, which acid splash is not. Inspire courage and flagbearer for example.

Things that work:
- Havoc of the society
- Acid as power component
- sorc bloodline arcana

Things that work on rays but not acid splash:
- Point blank shot (the to hit bonus applies)
- Flagbearer
- inspire courage
- for evocation spells the evoker wizard school power intense spells

Rays count as weapons while acid splash doesn't as far as I know. Because of that everything that states increasing weapon damage doesn't apply.

Edit: If you are not a sorc then the traits mindlessly cruel or zest for battle can work when combined with flagbearer.

Also for rays: Arcane Strike. +1 damage/5 caster levels.

Silver Crusade

They really need to fix the spells that require ranged attack rolls but that aren't defined as rays. They need to make it so that any spell which requires an attack roll is a "weapon-like spell" and it qualifies for any bonuses that a weapon attack would qualify for.

This would have a huge affect on a character I am working on right now.

Also, divine favor + Fate's Favored trait would add +2 to the attack and damage roll of ray spells. That kind of makes me want to make a sorcerer/oracle mystic theurge with the Fate's Favored and Havoc of the Society traits.


Bigdaddyjug wrote:

They really need to fix the spells that require ranged attack rolls but that aren't defined as rays. They need to make it so that any spell which requires an attack roll is a "weapon-like spell" and it qualifies for any bonuses that a weapon attack would qualify for.

This would have a huge affect on a character I am working on right now.

With that acid splash would be vastly superior to the other damage cantrips. Now you have to choose between having a ray or ignoring SR.

Silver Crusade

Umbranus wrote:
Bigdaddyjug wrote:

They really need to fix the spells that require ranged attack rolls but that aren't defined as rays. They need to make it so that any spell which requires an attack roll is a "weapon-like spell" and it qualifies for any bonuses that a weapon attack would qualify for.

This would have a huge affect on a character I am working on right now.

With that acid splash would be vastly superior to the other damage cantrips. Now you have to choose between having a ray or ignoring SR.

It doesn't just affect acid splash, though. And I'm 100% positive that acid splash ignoring SR is not the reason they haven't made that distinction.

Silver Crusade

So the CRB FAQ has this to say:

Paizo FAQ sais wrote:

Ray: Do rays count as weapons for the purpose of spells and effects that affect weapons?

Yes. (See also this FAQ item for a similar question about rays and weapon feats.)

For example, a bard's inspire courage says it affects "weapon damage rolls," which is worded that way so don't try to add the bonus to a spell like fireball. However, rays are treated as weapons, whether they're from spells, a monster ability, a class ability, or some other source, so the inspire courage bonus applies to ray attack rolls and ray damage rolls.

The same rule applies to weapon-like spells such as flame blade, mage's sword, and spiritual weapon--effects that affect weapons work on these spells.

To me, that means that any spell which requires an attack roll is affected by those abilities, which would include acid splash.


Bigdaddyjug wrote:

So the CRB FAQ has this to say:

Paizo FAQ sais wrote:

Ray: Do rays count as weapons for the purpose of spells and effects that affect weapons?

Yes. (See also this FAQ item for a similar question about rays and weapon feats.)

For example, a bard's inspire courage says it affects "weapon damage rolls," which is worded that way so don't try to add the bonus to a spell like fireball. However, rays are treated as weapons, whether they're from spells, a monster ability, a class ability, or some other source, so the inspire courage bonus applies to ray attack rolls and ray damage rolls.

The same rule applies to weapon-like spells such as flame blade, mage's sword, and spiritual weapon--effects that affect weapons work on these spells.

To me, that means that any spell which requires an attack roll is affected by those abilities, which would include acid splash.

Weaponlike spells does not mean spells with an attack roll but spells that are like weapons. (examples are:flame blade, mage's sword, and spiritual weapon) so it is rather clear that rays and weapon like spells are affected but not other spells.

Silver Crusade

I disagree that it is "rather clear" that your interpretation is correct.

Grand Lodge

Basic performance. Orc/draconic crossblooded. Point blank shot. Arcane strike. Weapon specialization ray.

I would roll with ray of frost over acid splash.

Later scorching ray and admonishing ray will kick in with each of the bonuses added to each ray.


So Archaeologist’s Luck (Ex) with fate's favoured trait can only benefit to rays and weapon-like spells?

Can you get weapon.spez(weapon-like spells) in order to boost spells such as flame blade, spiritual weapons?
Do bonus spell damages like havoc of society boost weapon-like spells?

By this way if you don't want to be crossblooded, you can get wildblooded abysall = +2 damage to any damaging spell.


Metux wrote:

So Archaeologist’s Luck (Ex) with fate's favoured trait can only benefit to rays and weapon-like spells?

Yes. And weapons in general. But not normal damaging spells.


One level of Alchemist to add your Int mod to splash weapons.
Focused Shot to add Int to ranged attacks.
Deadly Aim to boost damage on ranged attacks.


Gwen Smith wrote:

One level of Alchemist to add your Int mod to splash weapons.

Focused Shot to add Int to ranged attacks.
Deadly Aim to boost damage on ranged attacks.

"A splash weapon is a ranged weapon that breaks on impact, splashing or scattering its contents over its target and nearby creatures or objects." Acid Splash spell does not meet this definition (whatever the name may otherwise imply).

Focused Shot specifically states bow or crossbow.

Deadly Aim specifically says no touch attacks.

Grand Lodge

Gwen Smith wrote:

One level of Alchemist to add your Int mod to splash weapons.

Focused Shot to add Int to ranged attacks.
Deadly Aim to boost damage on ranged attacks.

Unfortunately the level of Alchemist will not work because Acid Splash is not a splash weapon.

Focused Shot only works with bows and crossbows.

I think Deadly Aim is a good idea and see no reason why it wouldn't work, at least with rays.


HardMaple wrote:
Gwen Smith wrote:

One level of Alchemist to add your Int mod to splash weapons.

Focused Shot to add Int to ranged attacks.
Deadly Aim to boost damage on ranged attacks.

"A splash weapon is a ranged weapon that breaks on impact, splashing or scattering its contents over its target and nearby creatures or objects." Acid Splash spell does not meet this definition (whatever the name may otherwise imply).

Focused Shot specifically states bow or crossbow.

Deadly Aim specifically says no touch attacks.

I misread the first post--I thought they were talking about an alchemist's acid flask.

I will go get coffee now...


Here is an old thread dealing with this topic somewhat.

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nys1?What-bonuses-can-you-stack-on-damage-cant rips#1


A 3rd level Dwarf Cross-blooded Orc/Draconic Sorcerer with Zest For Battle Trait, Havoc of Society Trait, Flag-bearer feat and False Focus feat, can do 1d3 +1 Havoc +2 Cross-blooded +1 Flag-bearer +1 Zest for Battle and +1 for Dwarf FCB.

So he's +2 to hit (BAB and Flag-bearer) and 1d3+6 damage and can use False Focus to make that Acid Splash last for 2 rounds, by using a divine focus as part of casting, you can cast any spell with a material component costing the value of that divine focus (maximum 100 gp) or less without needing that component.

That's not too shabby for a cantrip.

Grand Lodge

I feel the Key will be to have a bard or Evangelist cleric in the group.

Your looking for Eldritch Knight with 1 level of Crossblooded Orc/Draconic (fire)

Take point blank shot, weapon Focus/specization- ray, Empower spell, Improved critical-ray and Arcane Strike.

So for instance a Aasiamar 1 Crossblooded sorcerer/1 Ranger/ 10 Eldritch knight. Trait Magical Knack and wayang spell hunter-scorching ray

A scorching ray at 12th level Has 3 rays each at 4d6 with all the feats and a Bardic performance of the same level your looking at:

around +21 to hit. For 4d6+ 8(crossblooded)+ 3(inspire) +1 (point Blank) + 2 (specialization)+ 3 Arcane strike) so +21 4d6+17 * 50% (empower) x3.
Example we will say every dice you roll comes up a 3.
Each empowered ray will do 43 damage...totaling 129 damage after all 3 hit. That is actually still a little lower then average damage.

Yay ray specialist

Now what I haven't figured out is if Discordant Voice will tag along with each ray if the bard has it. I believe it would as it says Weapons and uses the same language as the other feats that power up weapons. (arcane strike, bardic performance, ext ext.)

I also did not add in Favored Enemy into thee damage because its iffy you will be fighting your FE. BUT if you are you add 2 more damage per ray and if it is empowered it will be +3 more damage per ray. Makes the example 138 damage...which like I said is still slightly lower then average damage.

Also the spell can crit....there is always that...being a 3rd leveel empower you can lesser rod of maximize it too for stupid damage.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I have a question for all of you about using the acid flask to add damage. Is this a consumable focus, or a non-consumable focus? If it is a non-consumable focus, then carrying the acid flask becomes very interesting for my low strength, 1st level sorcerer. If it is a consumable focus, does it use up an acid flask every time you hit? That could be expensive, not just for the cost of the flasks but also in terms of carrying capacity.

Thanks in advance for your answers to my question.

Hmm


Likely mentioned already but,
Arcane Strike, blooded damag bonuses,wizard levels, some favored class leve up bonuses. barb dstuff

Shadow Lodge

Just curious, what book is the "Acid Flask as Acid Splash Focus component" thing written? I'm having trouble finding it.


Hmm wrote:

I have a question for all of you about using the acid flask to add damage. Is this a consumable focus, or a non-consumable focus? If it is a non-consumable focus, then carrying the acid flask becomes very interesting for my low strength, 1st level sorcerer. If it is a consumable focus, does it use up an acid flask every time you hit? That could be expensive, not just for the cost of the flasks but also in terms of carrying capacity.

Thanks in advance for your answers to my question.

Hmm

It is a focus (non consumable). When consumed it would be called material component.

You could use it as a component instead of using it as a focus. Then it would increase the duration by 1 round, meaning it would deal its damage twice.

Acid:

A common flask of acid has many uses as an alchemical power component, particularly with attack spells.
•Acid Arrow (M): The spell's acid lasts 1 round longer than normal.
•Acid Fog (M): The fog's radius and height increase by 5 feet.
•Acid Splash (F): The spell deals +1 point of damage.
•Acid Splash (M): The spell lasts 1 round longer than normal.

•Dispel Magic (M): Using acid as a material component while attempting to dispel or counterspell a spell or effect with the earth subtype gives you a +2 bonus on your dispel check. This bonus applies whether you are using dispel magic, greater dispel magic, or some other spell that you can use for counterspelling (for example, if you have the Improved Counterspell feat).
•Grease (M): The grease is acidic and deals 1 point of acid damage per round to any creature in the area or holding the greased object.
•Wall of Ice (M): For each flask of acid used as a power component, you may designate one 10-foot square of ice wall that, if broken through, deals 1d6 acid damage in addition to the normal cold damage.

You can not use a flask of acid as both a focus and a material component to get both, the damage increase and the duration increase.

@EvilPaladin: I don't know from which book this is. I always use it from d20pfsrd's equipment list.


Eigengrau wrote:

A 3rd level Dwarf Cross-blooded Orc/Draconic Sorcerer with Zest For Battle Trait, Havoc of Society Trait, Flag-bearer feat and False Focus feat, can do 1d3 +1 Havoc +2 Cross-blooded +1 Flag-bearer +1 Zest for Battle and +1 for Dwarf FCB.

So he's +2 to hit (BAB and Flag-bearer) and 1d3+6 damage and can use False Focus to make that Acid Splash last for 2 rounds, by using a divine focus as part of casting, you can cast any spell with a material component costing the value of that divine focus (maximum 100 gp) or less without needing that component.

That's not too shabby for a cantrip.

If False Focus can sub in for any component under 100 GP then it can sub for the Brimstone I mentioned upthread adding an additional +1 damage. Ranged Acid Splash ranged touch +2 (1d3+7) and since its all feats and non-consumables its all day, every day. Not bad indeed...


Mark Hoover wrote:
Eigengrau wrote:

A 3rd level Dwarf Cross-blooded Orc/Draconic Sorcerer with Zest For Battle Trait, Havoc of Society Trait, Flag-bearer feat and False Focus feat, can do 1d3 +1 Havoc +2 Cross-blooded +1 Flag-bearer +1 Zest for Battle and +1 for Dwarf FCB.

So he's +2 to hit (BAB and Flag-bearer) and 1d3+6 damage and can use False Focus to make that Acid Splash last for 2 rounds, by using a divine focus as part of casting, you can cast any spell with a material component costing the value of that divine focus (maximum 100 gp) or less without needing that component.

That's not too shabby for a cantrip.

If False Focus can sub in for any component under 100 GP then it can sub for the Brimstone I mentioned upthread adding an additional +1 damage. Ranged Acid Splash ranged touch +2 (1d3+7) and since its all feats and non-consumables its all day, every day. Not bad indeed...

Except that, as noted above, some of the damage buffs do not apply to acid splash as it is not considered a weapon and thus can not benefit from weapon damage increases.

Silver Crusade

And as noted multiple times, that is your opinion and is not the commonly held one, nor is it the one held by the developers.


FAQ wrote:

Ray: Do rays count as weapons for the purpose of spells and effects that affect weapons?

Yes. (See also this FAQ item for a similar question about rays and weapon feats.)

For example, a bard's inspire courage says it affects "weapon damage rolls," which is worded that way so don't try to add the bonus to a spell like fireball. However, rays are treated as weapons, whether they're from spells, a monster ability, a class ability, or some other source, so the inspire courage bonus applies to ray attack rolls and ray damage rolls.

The same rule applies to weapon-like spells such as flame blade, mage's sword, and spiritual weapon--effects that affect weapons work on these spells.

OK, what have we here?

-"a bard's inspire courage says it affects "weapon damage rolls," which is worded that way so don't try to add the bonus to a spell like fireball."
So we get that it doesn't apply to spells like fireball. Undisputed but to have this part of the FAQ out of the way.
-"worded that way so don't try to add the bonus to a spell like fireball. However, rays are treated as weapons, whether they're from spells, a monster ability, a class ability, or some other source, so the inspire courage bonus applies to ray attack rolls and ray damage rolls."
So we get that rays count as weapon. States nothing about other spells
-"The same rule applies to weapon-like spells such as flame blade, mage's sword, and spiritual weapon--effects that affect weapons work on these spells."
And this tells us that spells that function like weapons are affected and goes on to describe what kind of spells is weapon-like: flame blade, mage's sword, and spiritual weapon. All those are spells that create weapons, which then are treated as weapons by effects enhancing weapon damage.

So where do you get that other spells not mentioned here are affected by effects that work on weapons? Can you give a Rules/FAQ/Dev quote which states that spells which have an attack roll but are not rays count as weapons?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Umbranus, thank you very much for your answer. My 1st level sorcerer sucketh in combat. This makes me *slightly* better for not much weight or cost!

Hmm

Silver Crusade

Umbranus wrote:
So where do you get that other spells not mentioned here are affected by effects that work on weapons? Can you give a Rules/FAQ/Dev quote which states that spells which have an attack roll but are not rays count...

Why yes, I can.

2nd to last post on the page. The spells listed are called examples. They put those there so they don't have to list every spell that qualifies.


Weired but ok. I accept that.


So... I can now start adding those "weapon" feats to Acid Splash? Then tack back in the Arcane Strike (there's another +1 damage).

Silver Crusade

Yep, they are included in the "weapon-like spells" category. You can add things that affect weapon attack and damage rolls to them, but can't take Weapon Focus in them.


dot

Silver Crusade

It looks like the miniscule coffee creature is trying to speak to us in Morse code.


dotting for a future NPC

Shadow Lodge

Sorry for going off topic here, but I had an interesting idea. With elemental pupil, could you add damage (in tiny amounts, but still) to the appropriate summon spells? And if so, would it stack with stuff like the burn ability or that lightning elemental thing?

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