Failedlegend The Eternal Gish |
So uh...how sto start...well, I've been DMing since I was in elementary school so about 20 years now and I'd say I'm an ok DM but I've always been heavily focused on the roleplaying aspect of D&D and so have my players, unfortunately due to moving for college I had to leave my old group behind.
Luckily for about a year or so now I have been DMing for a new group which in general seems to enjoy my DMing but one of the players isn;t much of a roleplayer and is really only there for the combat.
This is a new experience for me and frankly I don't know what to do, don't get me wrong combat happens but sometimes we'll go through 2-3 sessions w/o any and he just sits there looking all bored.
Now I could just increase the amount of combat but the rest of the group likes my combat lite style so that wouldn't work either.
Do you guys have any suggestions for how to keep this one player happy w/o upsetting the other players?
Side-question: Anyone know a good website to find players/another DM for IRL games in Canada (near Toronto)
ShadowDax |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
You know the feel of your situation better than I do but, with people who are new to some of the concepts of RPG's, I sort of put them on the spot.
If you want to give this player a turn, not in combat, look at this player & explain the situation in the form of a question. Say in one to two or a few sentences more of what's going on then ask, "what do you do?"
No matter what this player does, do not criticize, the idea is to be encouraging. If the player gives an answer that is out in the cosmos or not on your realm of what you intended or expected to happen, you can use the old trick of intelligence checks or some knowledge stuff, checks, to help give him a heads up no matter what he rolls.
Let's say this player roles a six or a -2, I use the words, "Miraculously, you learn.." then, say what ever is needed to give the hint for what you want or expect him or her to do.
When you give the infamous, "box text," and explain what's going on in the adventure. Make sure you look all players, especially the player were talking about, in the eye.
Eye contact sort of forces each player to stop wandering around aimlessly (daydreaming) and focuses their mind on what is at hand.
Confidence on your part will be seen by your players. Try to give the story of what's happening to each of your players while using eye contact.
After explaining what is going on in the adventure, looking at a player and asking the question, "what do you do?" puts that player on the spot. Do not do this to the same player each time.
The question, "what do you do?", is not written in stone. You can replace it with whatever you will, it's your game.
Hope this all helps.
Use Yahoo and type in, "meet up groups" or "enworld" for meeting players and the like.
gnoams |
Think of it like you are hosting a party. All the outgoing partygoers are going to introduce themselves to each other and be engaged in what's happening. That shy person is going to stand in the corner all akward and bored unless someone puts some effort in to involving them and making them feel comfortable. As the host to this party, you have to decide. Is it worth the extra work to engage and include this guest, or do you ignore them back?
Ascalaphus |
Maybe it'll help to ask him what kinds of RP he enjoys? Not all RP is the same after all; a mushy romantic scene is different from a nasty prisoner interrogation and that's different from a court case.
And there's also some places where RP and combat mix a lot. I'm currently prepping an adventure where the PCs need to do some show fighting. I expect some of the PCs will be focused on the fight, some on researching their opponents, others on manipulating the crowd, and some others on perhaps laying a few bets.
Hostage situations can also be interesting combat/RP combo challenges. How to distract bad guys so that you can snatch away the hostages before they get CdG'ed?
Try to think of combat situations that are more elaborate than "defeat all the bad guys"; maybe the point is to impress an NPC with your teamwork, to wade into a three-way battle and try to get one or more sides to join you, or to ensure that some enemies escape to tell tales of how awesome you were?
Hopefully that sort of thing will pique his interest.
thegreenteagamer |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Maybe it's just me, but why play Pathfinder if you don't like combat at all? You can roleplay with just about any system, but PF is designed AROUND combat. Skills are secondary things for most classes compared to their combat abilities which define them.
I'd say throw in one combat a day. It's really not that much, but it's enough to satiate most of us who, if we wanted to ONLY roleplay, would be using a completely different system.
DM Under The Bridge |
You know the feel of your situation better than I do but, with people who are new to some of the concepts of RPG's, I sort of put them on the spot.
If you want to give this player a turn, not in combat, look at this player & explain the situation in the form of a question. Say in one to two or a few sentences more of what's going on then ask, "what do you do?"
No matter what this player does, do not criticize, the idea is to be encouraging. If the player gives an answer that is out in the cosmos or not on your realm of what you intended or expected to happen, you can use the old trick of intelligence checks or some knowledge stuff, checks, to help give him a heads up no matter what he rolls.
Let's say this player roles a six or a -2, I use the words, "Miraculously, you learn.." then, say what ever is needed to give the hint for what you want or expect him or her to do.
When you give the infamous, "box text," and explain what's going on in the adventure. Make sure you look all players, especially the player were talking about, in the eye.
Eye contact sort of forces each player to stop wandering around aimlessly (daydreaming) and focuses their mind on what is at hand.
Confidence on your part will be seen by your players. Try to give the story of what's happening to each of your players while using eye contact.
After explaining what is going on in the adventure, looking at a player and asking the question, "what do you do?" puts that player on the spot. Do not do this to the same player each time.
The question, "what do you do?", is not written in stone. You can replace it with whatever you will, it's your game.
Hope this all helps.
Use Yahoo and type in, "meet up groups" or "enworld" for meeting players and the like.
Excellent suggestions ShadowDax. That is how to do it.
DM Under The Bridge |
Maybe it's just me, but why play Pathfinder if you don't like combat at all? You can roleplay with just about any system, but PF is designed AROUND combat. Skills are secondary things for most classes compared to their combat abilities which define them.
I'd say throw in one combat a day. It's really not that much, but it's enough to satiate most of us who, if we wanted to ONLY roleplay, would be using a completely different system.
Combat abilities define them?
The backstories, beliefs and personalities of your characters don't define them?
thegreenteagamer |
Combat abilities define them?The backstories, beliefs and personalities of your characters don't define them?
I said classes are defined by abilities, not characters.
The pathfinder system is rooted in combat. Absolutely ANY RPG can be used to roleplay. But PF is designed around combat. To give you an example, the new ACG gives you maybe a paragraph of what the new classes are thematically, then proceeds to, for multiple pages, explain their combat capabilities in depth.
I'm not saying don't roleplay. That's an integral part of any ROLEPLAYING game. But if that's ALL you want to do, why are you playing Pathfinder?
gnoams |
I have to agree with the greenteagamer a bit. The pathfinder system defines characters by their combat abilities because it is designed for playing games that revolve around combat.
I like roleplaying intensive games. I've played in numerous such campaigns, they've all been using L5R, WoD or some other non d20 rule set. D20 games, pathfinder and D&D especially, are designed for epic battles of heroes vs impossible odds. D20 games work great for super hero style stories, fighting against armies or giant monsters. So while you can use any roleplaying system for any style of game, each system is designed with specific strengths. If you want to play games that do not revolve around combat, you would be served better by using a rule set that doesn't revolve around combat.
DM Under The Bridge |
Well... d20 chugs hard if you want to throw heroes against impossible odds. It does small group combat far better than the few against the hordes of many. Especially if those many have any sort of build complexity.
On combat and what the ruleset caters to, the skill side to it does not revolve around combat. There is also a whole school of magic with spells that can be used outside of combat - illusion, and another school of magic to avoid combat - enchantment.
More than hammers and nails in the rule set.
Failedlegend The Eternal Gish |
Lots of response thanks guys I'll try to answer a few of the questions
- The player just outright hates RPing and has taken to whipping out his DS during non-combat...this is normally not allowed at my table but I've made exception to him because if I try to encourage him to RP he either tries to kill whoever he's talking to (he's a bear...long story) or just gets annoyed.
- The only thing that seems to motivate him to roleplay is if it's related to him wanting to become the god of bears...some examples include him recruiting a bear cub called Kuma, being celebrated as a hero for defeating a Tyrannical Dragon King and getting a small church made for him but this kind of stuff is a bit exclusionary to the others because he tends to get very loud and drowns everyone else during these times
- I can't just drop him as a player because he's my roommate
- Honestly I'm open to suggestion on new systems but my group isn't... getting them to switch to PF was hard enough. (This group started with 4e, I was DMing for the encounters program) which is a shame because I'm hoping to try out Wild Talents for my next campaign.
- I do like having the option to run a combat it's just that I heavily favor RPing...like 70/30 ratio wise
wraithstrike |
So uh...how sto start...well, I've been DMing since I was in elementary school so about 20 years now and I'd say I'm an ok DM but I've always been heavily focused on the roleplaying aspect of D&D and so have my players, unfortunately due to moving for college I had to leave my old group behind.
Luckily for about a year or so now I have been DMing for a new group which in general seems to enjoy my DMing but one of the players isn;t much of a roleplayer and is really only there for the combat.
This is a new experience for me and frankly I don't know what to do, don't get me wrong combat happens but sometimes we'll go through 2-3 sessions w/o any and he just sits there looking all bored.
Now I could just increase the amount of combat but the rest of the group likes my combat lite style so that wouldn't work either.
Do you guys have any suggestions for how to keep this one player happy w/o upsetting the other players?
Side-question: Anyone know a good website to find players/another DM for IRL games in Canada (near Toronto)
I used to be that guy, but I paid enough attention to not make it obvious. I did not participate in RP, and I only wanted it to "be over with" so I could kill something.
2 or 3 sessions with no combat would not be my cup of tea even now. Trying to get in at least one combat might work. That should not be too much for them to handle, and it would make the combat player not feel like his time is being wasted.
How long are your sessions normally?
Mark Hoover |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Talk with the player. Really talk to him. Ask him why he wants to drown out others when he is center stage. I'm guessing in combat he is also very aggressive; ask why.
Often the combat-focused player is looking for more of a board-game like experience. They want action they can get behind, beat some foe, and move on. Ask this player if they want to instead play a board game with you from time to time. I find Talisman or Descent are fun for this kind of outlet.
I had a similar situation. I moved years ago, had trouble finding a group but when I did 2 of the 4 players I was able to find were extremely combat focused. Even today, 6 years into playing alongside one of these folks he's still extremely bored unless we're in combat.
When I chatted with him I realized that for him the tabletop RPG was just another battle simulation like his favorite video games and board games. His gaming represented an outlet from the banality of every day life but also gave him some foe he could best, some mechanics and data he could manipulate and optimize and "win" with.
My latest attempt at a compromise was a megadungeon. Folks think of these kinds of games like mindless, endless slogs through room after room, but I don't run it like that. There's a lot of combat, to be sure, but there's also sentient monsters and not all of them are purely evil. In my game we've seen:
- a LN kobold "courtesan" that smuggled the PCs into a brothel in the dungeon
- a homemade pixie variant, many of whom have interacted with the PCs and watch over the dead
- a weapons maker and merchant who utilizes the PCs to gather materials for her
The players can also leave and go back to town, which bores this combat focused player. I once asked everyone to describe their actions back in town and this guy did "nothing" so I would periodically ask for ever increasingly hard Fort saves. His PC literally just stood in the town square for a day, staring into the sky, exposed to the elements and such until he finally collapsed and had to be cared for by a healer.
The other thing to think about if you've had this talk, want this person in your game and he's aware of your expectations, is consequence. Give him a reason to interact with the fantasy world and lay out what could happen if he doesn't. If he still sits out, stick to your guns.
Perhaps there's a petty noble who wants the PCs to raid a ruin. Your man sits on his DS and ignores the roleplay. The noble announces that for his "heroes" he's going to anoint them with holy oil in a ceremony. If this guy still doesn't care, everyone else in the party gets a temporary boon that gives them +1 to hit and damage in the ruin and a 1/day fire effect that adds +1d6 Fire damage to their weapon/ray attacks for 1 minute.
Turns out one of the main baddies is vulnerable to fire. Everyone else is whomping; this guy is dealing mediocre damage unless he's got a flaming weapon.
You could also have him receive less treasure, get attacked for his reputation or have his silence read as insolence and have his character get locked up/arrested/hunted down by an important NPC.
Finally if you want to look for players online these boards have recruitment threads. If its a game IRL just put that in the thread. There's meetup.com here in the states; don't know if there's anything like that in Canada. Also troll the local gaming/hobby stores or look for Pathfinder Society events in the area. Hope all goes well.
darkwarriorkarg |
You could also have him receive less treasure, get attacked for his reputation or have his silence read as insolence and have his character get locked up/arrested/hunted down by an important NPC.
Talk with the player. Really talk to him. Ask him why he wants to drown out others when he is center stage. I'm guessing in combat he is also very aggressive; ask why.
The player is bored and overcompensates.
The first paragraph is trying to resolve in game what ahould be resolved out of game. That will just frustratevthe player, who also happens to be his roommate. Wisdom check fail.
You know those tv shows, where there's an occasionaly scene with the tough guy onnthe team intimidating/pounding on the annoyance of the week? You need those scenes with a player like this. Play to his strengths. For about 5minutes. Then switch. Make the combat narrative, sometimes...
You're not a therapist. It's not your job to force people out of their shell.
"We're sending in someone to negociate!"