Occult Adventures Speculation and Discussion


Product Discussion

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At Gen Con this past weekend, Paizo announced the summer 2014 hardcover, Occult Adventures! The main focus of the book, according to the panel, was bringing psychic magic and 6 new classes that utilize it to the PFRPG. Other than that we know this book will have a bestiary section of some kind. The confirmed classes so far (text from the Know Direction website):

"The Kineticist will be a raw manipulator of psychic forces (Telekinetic, Pyrokinetic, etc) and will not be a caster / magic user.
Spiritualist is another. Has a spirit that they communicate with and can manifest through the world. Ectoplasmic is an ability.
The Mystic was mentioned by name, but no details were given."

Link

I'm presently most excited about that Kineticist! I can't wait to see what it can do when the playtest for the classes drops in a few months.

Speculate away!


I think I saw on the Mikaze Gencon thread that Paizo is not a fan of power points and will keep everything Vancian. (speculation). They also do not plan to overlap the work already done by Dreamscarred Press.
I should link the thread, but I'm feeling lazy today. ;D

Personally, I really like Psychic/Psionic stuff and think its a great addition to any fantasy setting.

Curious to know how powers are linked to ability scores and if they'll use the old 3.X method of tying the different disciplines to different scores.

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Was just about to post in the 2014 and Beyond thread on this topic, but since the conversation'll likely shift, I'll post my comments here instead:

I am incredibly excited to be involved with this book on such a high level creatively, and grateful to Erik and the design team for having me in the fold. It's funny how full circle it all is, really. The germ of this book's ideas was conceived at PaizoCon 2013, and born exactly one year ago at GenCon, so it was only fitting to return there to see what the design team was making of our bizarre Theosophical inspirations, Millerite musings, crazed occult ramblings, and ideas collected from dark seances and ghostly whispers over the course of the year.

After convening with Jason, Logan, Stephen, and Mark at our GenCon dinner, I can only echo Erik's sentiments--all of them--and let you guys know that I was positively giddy with the new class designs and the work they are doing to make this smorgasbord of occult inspirations a cohesive reality. I was already excited after meeting with Stephen in Tulsa and talking about all these secrets in the dark corners of an underground bar, and now that I've seen what the whole team is up to, I know you're going to see some incredible new ground broken with what we have in store for this book. Some of the speculation here doesn't get everything that was actually leaked right (when the seminar videos inevitably go up you'll want to pay close attention to Jason's comments on the proposed Mystic, for example), but Paizo's take on this subject--starting with the base class designs and running right on up through incredible new systems and to the last page of the hardcover--is just going to be amazing, and positively dripping with theme and flavor that explores some great new territory in our favorite game.

I'm supremely grateful to be that manifest spirit Erik conjured to whisper haunting occult inspirations into the design team's séance, so thank you to the guys for having me in the circle. Now, if you'll excuse me, lots of things need tending to here after a week-long absence. My seance chamber's suffered a flood of ectoplasm, there's a guy here in strange robes telling me my chakras are all out of alignment, my akashic record has a smeared autograph that might read "Jason Bulmahn,"and the golden calf in my office hardly tolerates a week without sacrifice, so there's work to be done!


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As excited as I am for psychic magic, I want to address a real concern. In the wake of ACG, we have seen a decline in quality control for the editing process due in part to the GenCon crunch. Typos are a huge part, as well as unclear language. Overall, the classes and feats are fun and flavorful, but I'm very worried that Occult Adventures will suffer the same grammatical errors the ACG dealt with. I urge Paizo to really give their books another once over before sending it off to press.


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I am worried that without PP they will either be stuck with uses per day or making the abilities extremely weak with unlimited use.

That said, I am super excited about 1st party psionics! I always missed the flavor brought by in tandem with psionics and dangerous places like the underdark.


Matthias wrote:

I am worried that without PP they will either be stuck with uses per day or making the abilities extremely weak with unlimited use.

That said, I am super excited about 1st party psionics! I always missed the flavor brought by in tandem with psionics and dangerous places like the underdark.

Well, it isn't based on 3rd edition Psionics, that has been explicity stated. Paizo likes and respects what Dreamscarred Press has done with Psionics and Psychic Magic will go a separate path - whatever that actually means for us in the end.

I think there is a lot of design space left to be explored when combining magic and psychic stuff, the problem is that most D&D players immediately think of Psionics when hearing these terms. Legacy might be more of a challenge than actually writing a new system (although I hope it's not) :)

Horizon Hunters

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I hear 'Psychic Magic' and my head goes to the Heralds of Valdemar and other works by Mercedes Lackey. I really hope it's like that, honestly, or that I can capture the feel of those works with this new system/book!

Honestly I'm excited; I never liked the power point system, it felt too easily manipulated and was SO much less limited than an arcane or divine caster. I get that was the point but if we don't let go of old legacies we'll never move on and improve, so I'm all for the change. Bring on the book!

And the playtest. Can't forget that.

Liberty's Edge

Matthias wrote:
That said, I am super excited about 1st party psionics!

If Paizo is 1st party and Dreamscarred is 3rd party, then who's the 2nd party?


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I for one hope for non-vancian AND non-points. I have both and would really like to see something new. The core concepts of psychics and mystics can be replicated already so an alternate magic system would go a long way in justifying them. I also think having them more pulp than Psionics goes a long way in differentiating the two as my only problem with Psionics was the lack of a less powerful pulp psychic.

Silver Crusade

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Samy wrote:
Matthias wrote:
That said, I am super excited about 1st party psionics!
If Paizo is 1st party and Dreamscarred is 3rd party, then who's the 2nd party?

You!

#GrammarJoke

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For those of you who were unable to attend GenCon, the fine folks of the Know Direction Podcast were kind enough to film the announcement, which you can see here. The discussion of Occult Adventures begins at the 30:50 minute mark.

More details on classes were given in the subsequent design team seminar, so keep your eyes peeled for that one.


Samy wrote:
Matthias wrote:
That said, I am super excited about 1st party psionics!
If Paizo is 1st party and Dreamscarred is 3rd party, then who's the 2nd party?

I believe 2nd party means the primary party owns a significant stake in the production of a semi-independent company. Thus Dragon magazine during 3.5 could have been seen as 2nd party 3.5 D&D. Hal Laboratories would be 2nd party to Nintendo, etc. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

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Alex Smith 908 wrote:
Samy wrote:
Matthias wrote:
That said, I am super excited about 1st party psionics!
If Paizo is 1st party and Dreamscarred is 3rd party, then who's the 2nd party?
I believe 2nd party means the primary party owns a significant stake in the production of a semi-independent company. Thus Dragon magazine during 3.5 could have been seen as 2nd party 3.5 D&D. Hal Laboratories would be 2nd party to Nintendo, etc. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

You are correct.

But Dudemeister's grammar joke was funnier than your accurate knowledge of business terms.

Liberty's Edge

Thank you for the explanation. :)


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Ultimately I am both excited and very very worried. I'm a fan of DS's work and am very impressed on how they made the classes feel unique. With Pazio relying on the Vancian system I'm afraid they may go to far with the while psychic mages and just make them just that, some flavor of wizard, warlock, etc. but PHYSCIC. But only time (and hopefully play test) will tell.


It sounds like this next book is getting into new design space. So one would hope it would be distinct from existing divine/arcane magic

Liberty's Edge

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I would actually be on board for at-will powers.


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Brandon linked to Knowdirection's podcast of the announcement above, but just listening to it, this is what was said:

- Spiritualists, Mediums, Telepaths
- Chakras, Ectoplasm
- Somewhere in the book will be a magic item akin to a tinfoil hat

Hopefully more when/if the podcast of the design session goes up! :D

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Cthulhudrew wrote:

Brandon linked to Knowdirection's podcast of the announcement above, but just listening to it, this is what was said:

- Spiritualists, Mediums, Telepaths
- Chakras, Ectoplasm
- Somewhere in the book will be a magic item akin to a tinfoil hat

Hopefully more when/if the podcast of the design session goes up! :D

It'll be up. Ryan and Perram working on it. Apparently their new equipment makes better quality recordings, but those recordings have a higher file size which makes them take longer to upload.

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Could this mean that the AP after Giantslayer could finally take us to Southern Casmaron/Vudra??

::happy dance::


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SirGeshko wrote:

Could this mean that the AP after Giantslayer could finally take us to Southern Casmaron/Vudra??

::happy dance::

IIRC the AP after Giantslayer is going to be Hell's Rebels (a Cheliax AP that was announced at GENCON).

As for the AP after that -- dunno...

Of course, an alternative to a southern Casmaron/Vudra AP could be an AP that visits Castrovel (kinda like how Reign of Winter visited Triaxus & Earth...).

Lashunta are psychic, too!

Could even tie-in to a Kyonin AP! (Elves & elfgates, Treerazer, Distant Worlds/ Lashunta, Formian hives, OH MY!)

Disclaimer: Wishful thinking on my part. <sigh>

Of course, a visit to Vudra could be fun, too... :D

Carry on!

--C.

EDIT: The Darklands also has heavy "psionics/psychic" themes to it, so the "psychic magic AP" could swing that way. Or the Dark Tapestry route...

We just don't know yet. <shrug>


Sounds like the AP after Giantslayer pretty much sticks to Cheliax...


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However, James Jacobs has said that Hell's Rebels "won't be 100% Darklands-free".

Paizo Employee Lead Designer

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Taunty, Taunty, Taunt, Taunt...

That is all...

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Taunter


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From what I understand, it will be very focused on new types of mechanics, which is probably a good thing.

But it seems a tad redundant, theme-wise (not that new mechanics are bad or anything; people play both the Eldritch Knight and the Magus, after all).

Let's see what core-only wizards can do...

Astral projection
Clairvoyance
Sense ghosts, demons, and angels by their auras
See invisible and ethereal things
Telekinesis
Telepathy
Get answers to questions from spirits (though contact other plane is a tad more cinematic than the pendulum thing)
Summoning angels, demons, and various strange beings.
Hypnosis

If anything, psychic magic or occult-style magic would be pretty lacking compared to the wizard/cleric, since even Aleister Crowley wasn't batsh!t insane enough to claim he could shoot fireballs and lightning bolts from his hands.


I am all for new magic systems, since I think DnD arcane actually does a pretty poor job simulating most magic systems in books. And has some pretty ridiculous power at high levels.

So if a psychic system doesn't get ridiculous at high levels and has better flavor, I might consider switching over to that from Arcane.

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One possible advantage of 'psychic magic' is that it won't necessarily have any sort of artificial arcane/divine divide regarding healing effects. Psychic healing and surgery is not an uncommon psi trope, so psychic magic may finally offer up a viable non-Cleric healer option without any sort of backwards-compatible 'only Clerics can cast cure spells / restore energy levels / cure blindness or paralysis / regenerate missing limbs / raise the dead' nonsense, since they won't be 'casting cure spells' at all.


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I am very interested in the Kineticist as a class similar to the 3.5 warlock in terms of blasting with maybe some ability to channel such forces like Gambit into weapons like staffs.

And as they progress their blasting improved with things like exploits that can alter their blasting into things like fire damage and whatnot, and even trick they can do to channel that energy into things like a shield or levitation, like the telekinetic guys from the movie Push.

Silver Crusade

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zergtitan wrote:

I am very interested in the Kineticist as a class similar to the 3.5 warlock in terms of blasting with maybe some ability to channel such forces like Gambit into weapons like staffs.

And as they progress their blasting improved with things like exploits that can alter their blasting into things like fire damage and whatnot, and even trick they can do to channel that energy into things like a shield or levitation, like the telekinetic guys from the movie Push.

The movie based on the novelization of the movie "Precious based on the novel Push by Sapphire"?


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I believe you are correct Dudemeister, here's a cookie. :)


OMNOMNOMNOMNOM


I can't wait to find out more about this one, but we do know 5 classes so far.

Kineticist
Medium
Mystic
Telepath
Spiritualist
???

Contributor

Dragon78 wrote:

I can't wait to find out more about this one, but we do know 5 classes so far.

Kineticist
Medium
Mystic
Telepath
Spiritualist
???

Do we now?


Well the new direction site listed the Kineticist, Mystic, and Spiritualist.

The actual video mentioned Telepath and Medium.

So maybe there is a lost in translation thing going on.

Isn't there supposed to be a second video for this book though?

Well other class names:

Clairvoyant
Esper
Psychic
Fakir
Mesmerist
Swami
Seer
Occultist
Augur
Prophet
Dreamweaver
Guru

I doubt they will use Psion or Psionicist.


Ghostbuster?


Maybe the Spiritualist or Medium would be a "Ghostbuster";)

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Ghosthustler?

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New Class: Conspirator
Key Class Feature: Secrets.

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If you REALLY want to know more about what could be going on in Occult Adventures, I'd guess that the best place to start digging would be [url="http://www.mysteriousplanchette.com/Curator/curator.html"]Brandon Hodge's website.[/url

He's one of two lead consultants on Occult Adventures, after all. (The other being Erik "my-lips-are-sealed" Mona himself.)

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DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:

New Class: Conspirator

Key Class Feature: Secrets.

Conspirator does not exist.

An agent of the Anaphexia will be at your location presently for re-education.

Do not resist.


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Ironic as it is, Occult Adventures which deals with conspiracies has spawned conspiracies.


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6 classes you say....

A d6 hit die full caster
A d8 hit die full caster with less variable spells
A d8 hit die 1-6 caster with lots of versatility
A d8 1-6 caster who got cool combat abilities
A d10 1-4 caster
A d10 or d12 no caster who uses psychic magic, but more like a resource similar to Ki.

I have a feeling at least 3 of those are right.

Also tons of archetypes

Tons of feats

Tons of new spells.

Since this is gonna be a Gencon hardcover we can expect at least some level of rushing. Hopefully they will learn from the ACG.


It has already been said that the Kineticist will not be a caster, though considering it's abilities, it will more then likely be a d8HD class, hopefully with a lot of skill points.


Spiritualist sounds a little bit like ol' Incarnum classes, but less weird and more classic.

Kinetist sounds like psionic only with different name, probably for people who hate psions but love telekinesis.

Psychic Mage - I have no idea, but you definitely should rename him, folk. I mean those two part base class names are just... wrong. Definitely wrong. Thank gods they changed Favoured Soul to Invoker.

Mystic - can be anything from some ultimate theurge, to renamed wu jen. My biggest hope for something cool.


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The moment I read chakra I immediately thought of incarnum. It was the most "outtanowhere" book I ever saw wizards published. Wonder how paizo's chakra will compare.


Insain Dragoon wrote:

6 classes you say....

A d6 hit die full caster
A d8 hit die full caster with less variable spells
A d8 hit die 1-6 caster with lots of versatility
A d8 1-6 caster who got cool combat abilities
A d10 1-4 caster
A d10 or d12 no caster who uses psychic magic, but more like a resource similar to Ki.

I have a feeling at least 3 of those are right.

Also tons of archetypes

Tons of feats

Tons of new spells.

Since this is gonna be a Gencon hardcover we can expect at least some level of rushing. Hopefully they will learn from the ACG.

I really hope so too. Ive seen a couple of people here mad about the editing in their book and I'm afraid that Occult aadventures is going to have the same problems.

I really wish there was a dev comment addressing these issues, because it's getting harder to have faith that this book won't suffer the GenCon rush.


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Robert Brookes wrote:
DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:

New Class: Conspirator

Key Class Feature: Secrets.

Conspirator does not exist.

An agent of the Anaphexia will be at your location presently for re-education.

Do not resist.

Remember, the Sheriff's Secret Police are here for your protection. Even from yourself.

If you see something, say nothing, and drink to forget.


Now I am all into Freemason class. Like that's literaly only class with possibility of realistic level advancement in all D&D variants.


So, maybe we won't see Casmaron or Castrovel yet. Maybe the first thing we see with this is an occult investigation AP. Maybe even a Mythos AP? They do love them some mythos, and this seems like just the kind of book to do a full AP. If not Mythos, I'm hoping for another horror AP, though I think it would probably be a mixture of Occult, Mythos, and horror in general. I think there is room for more Horror in our Pathfinder.


They have enough mythos related creatures to do a mythos AP.

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