if I have dragon's bite from dragon disciple where I add 1.5set to bites and fetal combat training and flurry, how much str do I use per bite in the flurry?
bump
The normal strength you would use for the flurry, that is 1x str bonus.
prototype00
so the flurry is more specific then the dragon's bite? That's a bummer if so.
You would add 1.5 Str bonus to all attacks. The FCT feat and rules for dragon bites are the more specific rules.
And if you have Dragon Ferocity you get to add .5 Str bonus to all your bite attacks. Note that this is not always the same as 2x str bonus.
In this case I am referring to the rules governing natural attacks specifically:
Primary attacks are made using the creature’s full base attack bonus and add the creature’s full Strength bonus on damage rolls. Secondary attacks are made using the creature’s base attack bonus –5 and add only 1/2 the creature’s Strength bonus on damage rolls. If a creature has only one natural attack, it is always made using the creature’s full base attack bonus and adds 1-1/2 times the creature’s Strength bonus on damage rolls. This increase does not apply if the creature has multiple attacks but only takes one. If a creature has only one type of attack, but has multiple attacks per round, that attack is treated as a primary attack, regardless of its type.
- In this case you are attacking with the bite attack multiple times.
Normally if it is just a bite you have and you only attack with it once this is what governs it:
If a creature has only one natural attack, it is always made using the creature’s full base attack bonus and adds 1-1/2 times the creature’s Strength bonus on damage rolls.
If you flurry with the bite, you are attacking with it multiple attacks per round thus this applies:
If a creature has only one type of attack, but has multiple attacks per round, that attack is treated as a primary attack, regardless of its type.
(Which is 1x str bonus)
It is more a happy accident that that is also the amount of damage that flurry of blows attack do.
I might be wrong, but there doesn't seem to be any provision in the ability that allows it to break the basic assumptions governing natural attacks.
prototype00
In this case I am referring to the rules governing natural attacks specifically:
Primary attacks are made using the creature’s full base attack bonus and add the creature’s full Strength bonus on damage rolls. Secondary attacks are made using the creature’s base attack bonus –5 and add only 1/2 the creature’s Strength bonus on damage rolls. If a creature has only one natural attack, it is always made using the creature’s full base attack bonus and adds 1-1/2 times the creature’s Strength bonus on damage rolls. This increase does not apply if the creature has multiple attacks but only takes one. If a creature has only one type of attack, but has multiple attacks per round, that attack is treated as a primary attack, regardless of its type.- In this case you are attacking with the bite attack multiple times.
Normally if it is just a bite you have and you only attack with it once this is what governs it:
If a creature has only one natural attack, it is always made using the creature’s full base attack bonus and adds 1-1/2 times the creature’s Strength bonus on damage rolls.If you flurry with the bite, you are attacking with it multiple attacks per round thus this applies:
If a creature has only one type of attack, but has multiple attacks per round, that attack is treated as a primary attack, regardless of its type.(Which is 1x str bonus)
It is more a happy accident that that is also the amount of damage that flurry of blows attack do.
I might be wrong, but there doesn't seem to be any provision in the ability that allows it to break the basic assumptions governing natural attacks.
prototype00
But dragons (and Dragon Disciples) have a special rule that their bite does 1.5 Str bonus, even with other natural attacks. A claw/claw/bite sequence has Str bonuses of 1/1/1.5
You would add 1x Str to the bite attack when it is used with the flurry of blows class feature. Feral Combat Training allows you the natural attack as part of a flurry of blows, nothing else; it does not alter the rest of the flurry of blows mechanics. It effectively would be giving your bite the monk weapon special quality.
You would add 1x Str to the bite attack when it is used with the flurry of blows class feature. Feral Combat Training allows you the natural attack as part of a flurry of blows, nothing else; it does not alter the rest of the flurry of blows mechanics. It effectively would be giving your bite the monk weapon special quality.
If it does nothing else then it does not negate the dragon (disciple) special bite rules.
But the bite says to use str and a half. Also the two-handed fighter archetype's backswing says add double str after the swing. Would this get reduced to 1 as well for flurry?
prototype00 do you have anything to say now that it's clarified that it's the dragon disciples bite, which isn't your normal standard bite?
But the bite says to use str and a half. Also the two-handed fighter archetype's backswing says add double str after the swing. Would this get reduced to 1 as well for flurry?
That one might get reduced as it is based on using a weapon in 2 hands and the FOB states that you get 1X Str bonus regardless of the number of hands used.
If it does nothing else then it does not negate the dragon (disciple) special bite rules.
To paraphrase flurry of blows, attacks used with it deal 1x Str mod bonus damage regardless of type. RAW it does not specifically list natural attacks because they simply were not weapons usable in a flurry of blows when the monk's mechanics were written. RAI is pretty clear, and good luck getting away with a bite flurry dealing 1.5x Str mod damage in organized play.
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If it does nothing else then it does not negate the dragon (disciple) special bite rules.To paraphrase flurry of blows, attacks used with it deal 1x Str mod bonus damage regardless of type. RAW it does not specifically list natural attacks because they simply were not weapons usable in a flurry of blows when the monk's mechanics were written. RAI is pretty clear, and good luck getting away with a bite flurry dealing 1.5x Str mod damage in organized play.
There are ways to 1.5 strength while using FoB. Dragon bite is one:
At 2nd level, whenever the dragon disciple uses his bloodline to grow claws, he also gains a bite attack. This is a primary natural attack that deals 1d6 points of damage (1d4 if the dragon disciple is Small), plus 1–1/2 times the dragon disciple’s Strength modifier. Upon reaching 6th level, this bite also deals 1d6 points of energy damage. The type of damage dealt is determined by the dragon disciple's bloodline.
Emphasis mine. 1.5x mode is always used, even though the user has additional natural attacks.
A second way would be:
Benefit: While using Dragon Style, you gain a bonus on unarmed strike damage rolls equal to half your Strength bonus.
Specific > General. In general, FoB is restricted to 1x strength mod. In the specific cases of Dragon Bite & Dragon Ferocity, a higher mod is specified.
If it does nothing else then it does not negate the dragon (disciple) special bite rules.To paraphrase flurry of blows, attacks used with it deal 1x Str mod bonus damage regardless of type. RAW it does not specifically list natural attacks because they simply were not weapons usable in a flurry of blows when the monk's mechanics were written. RAI is pretty clear, and good luck getting away with a bite flurry dealing 1.5x Str mod damage in organized play.
No FOB says 1X Str regardless of number of hands used. Dragon (disciple) bite damage is no based on the number of hands used. It still only gets +2 from Power Attack while a 2 handed weapon would get 1X Str and +3 from Power Attack.
If it does nothing else then it does not negate the dragon (disciple) special bite rules.To paraphrase flurry of blows, attacks used with it deal 1x Str mod bonus damage regardless of type. RAW it does not specifically list natural attacks because they simply were not weapons usable in a flurry of blows when the monk's mechanics were written. RAI is pretty clear, and good luck getting away with a bite flurry dealing 1.5x Str mod damage in organized play.No FOB says 1X Str regardless of number of hands used. Dragon (disciple) bite damage is no based on the number of hands used. It still only gets +2 from Power Attack while a 2 handed weapon would get 1X Str and +3 from Power Attack.
But the bite says to use str and a half. Also the two-handed fighter archetype's backswing says add double str after the swing. Would this get reduced to 1 as well for flurry?That one might get reduced as it is based on using a weapon in 2 hands and the FOB states that you get 1X Str bonus regardless of the number of hands used.
But the bite isn't using hands. And backswing should work. If you wield two handed, in a flurry you'd normally get 1str but backswing says you add double to all but the first.