Alright So new book, new rules, new questions.... I am wanting to play a Shield champion for a campaign and it looks so much fun... but One thing confuses me... A shield Champion is proficient in simple weapons, light armor, Light shields, Heavy shields, and bucklers... The Throw Shield ability says that you can throw a shield with its range being either 10 ft or the shields range, whichever is farther, it does shield bash damage including any damage from shield spikes and such... Now Here come my three questions
1. Though it does not mention it in the proficiencies... am I proficient in shield spikes and shields built for throwing?
2. light shields and spiked shields are in the close fighter group which with Close weapon mastery ends up allowing me to switch out damage for the shield and other close weapons with my unarmed damage from four levels back.... Does that count towards Throwing it too?
3. If I were to get shield spikes, does that make throwing the shield Piercing damage? When returning shield comes around that honestly will look rather funny in my head of spikes going into someone and then it bounces out....
If I do need proficiency I guess considering they are combat feats I can use Martial flexibility to use them but I'd rather not
For CS:
1. Given that the property of a shield being designed to throw is an extra property for a shield, I would think proficiency for shields covers it.
2. I had not noticed those were close weapons, but I would have to say yes, given that throwing the weapon hardly seems like not wielding.
3. Given there is no text suggesting a change in the damage type, even with spikes, yes - the weird mental image is correct.
For R,SoH:
1. See the text on spikes:
An enhancement bonus on a spiked shield does not improve the effectiveness of a shield bash made with it, but a spiked shield can be made into a magic weapon in its own right.
I can find nothing on enchanting it to both things separately, however.
2. Presumably, any weapon enchantment will be a bonus as it standard for a weapon.
3. I would have to assume it functions as with the feat shield slam as that is how you perform a combat maneuver with a bash AFAIK.
Hopefully someone a bit more confident/competent on the topic can refine (see: correct) on this.
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@Chaos:
1. The Shield Champion does not lose proficiency with the Close weapon group given by the standard Brawler proficiencies, so that's where your shield proficiency comes from.
2. Yes, throwing your shield is treated as a shield bash as far as attack and damage, from what I can tell.
3. I think this one is totally GM fiat... you could theoretically get spikes placed around the edge of the shield and then those would be what hits your enemy when you throw it, so I'd probablly allow it personally.
@ RUshley:
1. You would need to enchant the shield as a weapon separately to get an enhancement bonus when throwing it. It's no different than shield bashes in that way. However, when you pick up Shield Master at 11th level through the Throw Shield ability, you could then use the shield's defensive enhancement bonus instead, which would allow you to enchant the shield as an armor to get standard enhancement bonus and as a weapon separately to add special abilities like flaming, keen, etc.
2. Any weapon enhancements you give it would apply to your thrown attacks, along with your Dex bonus for attack rolls and your Strength bonus for damage, just like any other thrown weapon.
3. This is a little tricky, since you normally add your Strength to your CMB, but you're throwing the shield so it could also be Dex instead. I would think that you'd still use your Strength bonus (the idea being that the shield hits their hand or their weapon or their feet and causes the CMB check, and the harder it hits the more likely they lose their weapon or fall). This one might need some clarification.
Overall, I don't feel like the rules are extra clunky or anything, you just need to pull rules from many different places to make it work, which is pretty common in Pathfinder.
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This is one of the reasons I've never gotten into Hero Lab...
1. Yes, Point Blank Shot would definitely be applied to attack, damage, and CMB with the thrown shield.
2. Yep, you've gotta find room in your build for the feats OR turn on their pre-reqs using Martial Flexibility any time you want to make use of them. They're feats that you're going to want for a shield-throwing-focused build anyway, though.
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Just wanted to point out, I was incorrect about the Shield Champion not losing proficiency with the close weapon group, but I'm going to assume that when they say that she's proficient with shields, they mean both offensively and defensively... otherwise the class really doesn't work at all.
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Just wanted to point out, I was incorrect about the Shield Champion not losing proficiency with the close weapon group, but I'm going to assume that when they say that she's proficient with shields, they mean both offensively and defensively... otherwise the class really doesn't work at all.
Yeah...I don't even know how they'd list specific weapon proficiency with shields other than how they did.
Oh I wanted to post for Rushly in the Throw Shield ability it says at 7th level you can perform Certain combat maneuvers with a thrown shield... And Thank you people who answered... I just wondered cause I saw Throwing shield was an exotic weapon proficiency but it was something you added on to a regular shield.... I am curious about enchanting shields and if they can or cannot be ac bonus enchanted and weapon enchanted and how to come up with cost cause I thought I read somewhere that you could do that but... figured I'd ask
So I need to take a bunch of feats, including 2 weapon fighting just to make my later level class feats viable? Again, that's a pretty massive oversight by the design team and can't be what was intended.
A brawler has the two-weapon fighting feat from brawler's flurry. I would rule this counts for the prereq, not sure if that would work in PFS though.
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from the PRD
Shield, Heavy; Wooden or Steel: You strap a shield to your forearm and grip it with your hand. A heavy shield is so heavy that you can't use your shield hand for anything else.
Wooden or Steel: Wooden and steel shields offer the same basic protection, though they respond differently to spells and effects.
Shield Bash Attacks: You can bash an opponent with a heavy shield. See “shield, heavy” on Table: Weapons for the damage dealt by a shield bash. Used this way, a heavy shield is a martial bludgeoning weapon. For the purpose of penalties on attack rolls, treat a heavy shield as a one-handed weapon. If you use your shield as a weapon, you lose its AC bonus until your next turn. An enhancement bonus on a shield does not improve the effectiveness of a shield bash made with it, but the shield can be made into a magic weapon in its own right.
Shield, Light; Wooden or Steel: You strap a shield to your forearm and grip it with your hand. A light shield's weight lets you carry other items in that hand, although you cannot use weapons with it.
Wooden or Steel: Wooden and steel shields offer the same basic protection, though they respond differently to some spells and effects.
Shield Bash Attacks: You can bash an opponent with a light shield. See “shield, light” on Table: Weapons for the damage dealt by a shield bash. Used this way, a light shield is a martial bludgeoning weapon. For the purpose of penalties on attack rolls, treat a light shield as a light weapon. If you use your shield as a weapon, you lose its AC bonus until your next turn. An enhancement bonus on a shield does not improve the effectiveness of a shield bash made with it, but the shield can be made into a magic weapon in its own right.
Shield, Tower: This massive wooden shield is nearly as tall as you are. In most situations, it provides the indicated shield bonus to your AC. As a standard action, however, you can use a tower shield to grant you total cover until the beginning of your next turn. When using a tower shield in this way, you must choose one edge of your space. That edge is treated as a solid wall for attacks targeting you only. You gain total cover for attacks that pass through this edge and no cover for attacks that do not pass through this edge (see Combat). The shield does not, however, provide cover against targeted spells; a spellcaster can cast a spell on you by targeting the shield you are holding. You cannot bash with a tower shield, nor can you use your shield hand for anything else.
When employing a tower shield in combat, you take a –2 penalty on attack rolls because of the shield's encumbrance.
Shield Spikes: These spikes turn a shield into a martial piercing weapon and increase the damage dealt by a shield bash as if the shield were designed for a creature one size category larger than you (see “spiked shields” on Table: Weapons). You can't put spikes on a buckler or a tower shield. Otherwise, attacking with a spiked shield is like making a shield bash attack.
An enhancement bonus on a spiked shield does not improve the effectiveness of a shield bash made with it, but a spiked shield can be made into a magic weapon in its own right.
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this is pretty crazy...
At 12th level, a shield champion
can use her unarmed strike damage when dealing
damage with a shield (whether in melee or thrown) or
the shield’s damage, whichever is greater.
combine that with Enlarge person, Spiked shield bashing and impacting. that is
12th level
Start 2d6 + Spiked = 3d6 + impacting = 4d6 + bashing = 6d6 + enlarged = 7D6.
add vital Stike = 14D6
add Improved vital strike = 21D6
that is pretty good for a standard action that you can also use "cleave" on with the rite feats.
this is pretty crazy...
At 12th level, a shield champion
can use her unarmed strike damage when dealing
damage with a shield (whether in melee or thrown) or
the shield’s damage, whichever is greater.combine that with Enlarge person, Spiked shield bashing and impacting. that is
12th levelStart 2d6 + Spiked = 3d6 + impacting = 4d6 + bashing = 6d6 + enlarged = 7D6.
add vital Stike = 14D6
add Improved vital strike = 21D6that is pretty good for a standard action that you can also use "cleave" on with the rite feats.
This is how I view it,
The thing is you replace the punches damage with the shields damage. The spiked, impacting and bashing all are to the shield so they wouldn't be added to your punching damage.
The way i had it explained to me was that when getting it the shield and spikes are two separate entities as far as purchase (although gained at the same instant) and enhancement, so you could have the shield it self masterwork but the spikes not or you could pay to upgrade both, same for when you get them as special materials which while ending up rather expensive could give you multiple materials on the item. If this is incorrect it would be handy to know so i could spend the extra gold elsewhere but as i said this is how i'd been informed.