Oloch Question


Rules Questions and Gameplay Discussion


Oloch has a power that lets him display cards from his hand to benefit other characters on their turn. Reading the text of the power (at least at basic level), it looks like the displayed cards are then not available to Oloch during his turn and until he resets his hand. Is that correct ? Thanks.


That's the way I read it - the cards don't return to his hand until his reset phase (or start of turn if you take the upgrade). I must admit I was a little disappointed in Oloch, I'm not sure that's such a great ability as it denies him cards for his turn. I suppose once you take the upgrade it becomes a lot more useful.


Yeah, he seems useful, but really needs power feats to get going.

Silver Crusade RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

I was in the playtest for Skull & Shackles, and I really loved Oloch. Yeah, you display cards and then they're not available for you to use, but if you play him as a support character it really works well. And then yeah, once you can upgrade him to put those cards back in his hand AFTER you refill your hand, you end up with tons of cards in hand every round.


Ok - thanks for the clarification you guys.


it also makes him semi-immune to damage - if the cards are displayed, they can't be lost.

At least in early stages, he could use all his cards to help others, then just punch things on his turn.


More questions on this power, just so I have it right.

Do the cards I display only count for a single check? Or do they benefit multiple die rolls if they are still displayed.


Joshua Birk 898 wrote:
Do the cards I display only count for a single check? Or do they benefit multiple die rolls if they are still displayed.

Only "the check" (the one during which you displayed the cards) gains this benefit.


cartmanbeck wrote:
And then yeah, once you can upgrade him to put those cards back in his hand AFTER you refill your hand, you end up with tons of cards in hand every round.

I'm not sure I am following - the ability states that you return the cards to your hand *before* you reset your deck. Therefore those cards would count towards your usual hand size.

Even with the feat upgrade, you would be getting the cards back before you reset your hand each time.

Perhaps they changed it? I agree, if the cards were added after resetting it would be surprisingly good!


Oloch looks super cool, but oof, so many power feats before I'd really consider him viable. Casters with 4 hand size are especially rough, exceptionally so if he's putting his cards in limbo to help other players out. Once he gets 5 handsize and start of turn power it looks like he'll pick up speed, and the +2 on top of that means he doesn't have to waste a single pre-role power on something he only kind of wants (which most characters do, in my experience). Only a few of his role powers really call to me, but I suppose that means he can dig deep into his hand size and be mainline support, always my favorite role, and one that's usually pretty underrepresented in games with their tank/DPS/healer trinities.


Klandestine wrote:
cartmanbeck wrote:
And then yeah, once you can upgrade him to put those cards back in his hand AFTER you refill your hand, you end up with tons of cards in hand every round.

I'm not sure I am following - the ability states that you return the cards to your hand *before* you reset your deck. Therefore those cards would count towards your usual hand size.

Even with the feat upgrade, you would be getting the cards back before you reset your hand each time.

Perhaps they changed it? I agree, if the cards were added after resetting it would be surprisingly good!

As it stands you are right. He gets the card before resetting. And later on the start of your turn. When you get the at the start of your turn this is a great power. You can help on a check when it's not your turn, get the card back, and also help out on temp closing or secondary checks during your turn. Or even recharge checks for spells casted under your turn. Sneaky way to have less cards in hand for after encounter damage or damage to every character if your friend taking the second combat check on a villain and fails. You'll get them back before you reset your hand.

Silver Crusade RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

Yeah sorry, I should have been more specific... you return the cards to your hand at the end of your turn before resetting, and then you have all the other players' turns to use your display ability to help them, and then you get all the cards back right before your turn again. It's super awesome and I used it all the time during the playtest.


Sorry to be such a bore, but I still don't understand how Oloch's power work.

Can someone explain the power with bullet-points, sort of 1), 2), in a real example.

For example,

We have 4 players, Valeros, Lini, Merisiel and Oloch.

1) oloch has a hand of 4, he has 1 armor, 1 weapon, 1 item, 1 spell

It is now Valeros turn.

2) Valeros meet a monster, and Oloch reveals 1 weapon to add +1 to Valeros roll. Valeros defeats the monster.

So far so good.

3) What happens to the weapon Oloch revealed?

4) It is Lini's turn, she encounters a monster, and Oloch reveals 1 armor to add +1 to Lini's roll. Lini defeats the monster.

5) What happens to the armor?

6) It is Merisiel turn, she encounters a monster and evades.

7) Oloch turn again, he has 1 item, 1 spell and 2 revealed cards. He encounters a monster.

8) Can Oloch use his weapon?

9) Oloch fails his roll, can he use his armor?

10) luckily, Oloch took 1 damage and discard 1 item. How does Oloch reset his hand and where do the cards he revealed go?

Many thanks for all your help. I am just not getting Oloch.


guigtexas wrote:

Sorry to be such a bore, but I still don't understand how Oloch's power work.

Can someone explain the power with bullet-points, sort of 1), 2), in a real example.

For example,

We have 4 players, Valeros, Lini, Merisiel and Oloch.

1) oloch has a hand of 4, he has 1 armor, 1 weapon, 1 item, 1 spell

It is now Valeros turn.

2) Valeros meet a monster, and Oloch reveals 1 weapon to add +1 to Valeros roll. Valeros defeats the monster.

So far so good.

3) What happens to the weapon Oloch revealed?

4) It is Lini's turn, she encounters a monster, and Oloch reveals 1 armor to add +1 to Lini's roll. Lini defeats the monster.

5) What happens to the armor?

6) It is Merisiel turn, she encounters a monster and evades.

7) Oloch turn again, he has 1 item, 1 spell and 2 revealed cards. He encounters a monster.

8) Can Oloch use his weapon?

9) Oloch fails his roll, can he use his armor?

10) luckily, Oloch took 1 damage and discard 1 item. How does Oloch reset his hand and where do the cards he revealed go?

Many thanks for all your help. I am just not getting Oloch.

When Oloch displays cards, they remain displayed (not revealed) until the end of his next turn, just before be resets his hand. So if he helps others with that power, he does not have access to them during his next turn. He takes them back into his hand just before resetting.

Once he takes the feat, he takes them back at the beginning of his turn, as well. So he does have them to use during his turn. He could use them for himself, or display them to help others that might need to make checks during his turn...then he takes them back again at the end, just before he resets.

So for your example, the answer to 3 and 5 is that the cards remains displayed. The answer to 8 and 9 is no. For number 10, he recovers the two displayed cards and then resets his hand.


Reveal and Display are 2 separate things. I think you might be doing the right thing (display) but calling it the wrong thing (reveal).

2) You would need to display that weapon (not reveal it); this means it is no longer in your hand and not usable again until it returns to your hand, which would be your next turn.

3) That card stays displayed in front of you (not in your hand, not usable) until your next turn.

4) Your "display to add 1 to checks" power applies only to blessings and weapons; you cannot reveal display an armor, only a blessing or weapon. You would not be able to help Lini now.

5) Again, you cannot display an armor, but if you could it would stay displayed until your next turn.

7) The cards stay displayed until your power specifies when they return to your hand. You have probably not checked the "and at the start of your turn" power feat, so they stay displayed until you right before reset your hand at the end of your turn.

When you gain a power feat and check that option, they will return to your hand immediately at the start of your turn and you can use them again on your turn.

8) Since the weapon is still displayed, no you cannot use it.

9) While the armor (or any card) is displayed, not you cannot use it (unless the card itself says it can be played while it is displayed).

10) Before you rest your hand, the cards you have displayed return to your hand. So now you have the weapon, armor, and spell in your hand. You may discard none or any number of them, then draw up to your hand size.


Ah okay, now I get it. Many thanks csouth154 and Flat the Impaler.

As for displaying the armor mistake, I got confused with Oloch second power which is reveal an armor to allow a character to heal 1d4+1.

I see now that Oloch is a bit tricky. With only 4 cards in his hands, he sounds like Harsk in the early game of RotRL. Harsk could shoot things from far away, but then I often find myself with only 1-2 cards left when starting my turn, especially with 6 players.


Flat the Impaler wrote:
Joshua Birk 898 wrote:
Do the cards I display only count for a single check? Or do they benefit multiple die rolls if they are still displayed.
Only "the check" (the one during which you displayed the cards) gains this benefit.

Sorry, just following up on this because this was my main question, too: is that official ruling—only the check on which they were first displayed?

Reading the text I could see it go either way, depending on whether the "displayed" in "for each card displayed" is functioning as a verb or an adjective. Because, technically, on a later check, those cards I displayed are still "displayed." But it makes a huge difference in how powerful that ability is.

Sovereign Court

With how wording in PACG works, "the check" 100% means only the one referred to earlier in the power (the one when you actually put down the cards and said "I display these"). Considering that he can display them for +2, adding +8 (assuming no hand size increases) to every single check in a six person game by playing them on the first check of the player's turn following yours, and getting the cards back at the beginning of your turn, is so indescribably broken that there is no way in hell they ever would have let it be in the game.


Jhliu wrote:
Flat the Impaler wrote:
Joshua Birk 898 wrote:
Do the cards I display only count for a single check? Or do they benefit multiple die rolls if they are still displayed.
Only "the check" (the one during which you displayed the cards) gains this benefit.

Sorry, just following up on this because this was my main question, too: is that official ruling—only the check on which they were first displayed?

Reading the text I could see it go either way, depending on whether the "displayed" in "for each card displayed" is functioning as a verb or an adjective. Because, technically, on a later check, those cards I displayed are still "displayed." But it makes a huge difference in how powerful that ability is.

You are correct...it does make a huge difference. If they counted toward every check made by any character while they are displayed, it would be grossly overpowered. They only count towards the check they were displayed for. They remain displayed so that they can't be used again until they are recovered.


That's interesting... his card says:

Oloch's Character Card wrote:
When another character attempts any check, you may display any number of blessings and weapons; for each card displayed, add 1 (□ 2) to the check. Return the displayed cards to your hand before you reset it (□and at the start of your turn).

The most literal reading would allow you to display some number of cards and apply the check bonus to every subsequent check, making him the most powerful support character ever. Breaking it down.

Damiel attempts a check. Oloch displays 3 cards (2 blessings and 1 weapon) giving Damiel a +3 on his check. On 's next check, Oloch displays any number of cards (0 in this case) and gives Damiel +3 for his 3 displayed cards. He repeats on every other character's check until his turn ends and he picks up his cards.

Naturally this isn't what is intended as that is bonkers powerful. You just get the boost for the cards actively being displayed at that time, not cards still being displayed from last time. But the wording leaves this interpretation out there.


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nondeskript wrote:
. But the wording leaves this interpretation out there.

To call this interpretation a stretch would be an understatement, to say the least.


csouth154 wrote:
nondeskript wrote:
. But the wording leaves this interpretation out there.
To call this interpretation a stretch would be an understatement, to say the least.

In defense of this (incorrect) interpretation, there are examples in the game of cards that are displayed and the effects stack with previously displayed cards, such as haunts. I'm not arguing for this interpretation, just saying I could see people interpreting it that way.

Sovereign Court

The Haunts don't say "the" check though, after mentioning a specific check. They specifically say "your checks"


nondeskript wrote:

That's interesting... his card says:

Oloch's Character Card wrote:
When another character attempts any check, you may display any number of blessings and weapons; for each card displayed, add 1 (□ 2) to the check. Return the displayed cards to your hand before you reset it (□and at the start of your turn).

The most literal reading would allow you to display some number of cards and apply the check bonus to every subsequent check, making him the most powerful support character ever. Breaking it down.

Damiel attempts a check. Oloch displays 3 cards (2 blessings and 1 weapon) giving Damiel a +3 on his check. On 's next check, Oloch displays any number of cards (0 in this case) and gives Damiel +3 for his 3 displayed cards. He repeats on every other character's check until his turn ends and he picks up his cards.

Naturally this isn't what is intended as that is bonkers powerful. You just get the boost for the cards actively being displayed at that time, not cards still being displayed from last time. But the wording leaves this interpretation out there.

Page 10 of the rules states "If you are instructed to play, reveal, display, discard, recharge, bury, banish, or otherwise manipulate a card, that card must come from your hand unless otherwise specified."

I think the intention is that a card displayed by Oloch's power doesn't do anything on it's own; it is the ACT of displaying which provides help. So when the second check comes along, and you can't display those cards FROM YOUR HAND (because they've already been displayed), you can't add to the check. Furthermore, those displayed cards don't provide any "power", because you didn't play those cards as themselves; they were played as generic cards in Oloch's "Display" action.


'The check' is unambiguously singular.
'The checks' or 'those checks' would be plural.
There is no logical way to interpret Oloch's power as applying to more than one check.


Zhayne wrote:

'The check' is unambiguously singular.

'The checks' or 'those checks' would be plural.
There is no logical way to interpret Oloch's power as applying to more than one check.

It could be argued if for no other reason than it doesn't say which check they have to be revealed on. It just says for each card revealed. So, the argument could go, one could display 4 cards on check A, and 0 additional cards on subsequent check B, but still get +4(8) to check B since there are 4 cards displayed. As Nindeskript said above.


Orbis Orboros wrote:
Something.

Hey! There you are! I was just wondering last night where you'd been. Even checked to see when you last posted. It hadn't been too long, but you'd been no where near as active as usual. You almost had me worried.

Anyway, I'd say the rulebook tells you which check you reveal them on, since they are a power that effects the check.

The hang up everyone experiences is that we are used to display powers having a persistent effect instead of just being a mechanism to limit the use of the power. In a way, perhaps you contributed to this power a bit when Restoration was changed to use the display action to limit repeated use. I don't recall anything before that using display as a limit. But perhaps I am wrong.


I would like to mention that I do actually understand how the power works. It is clear that you only get the +1/2 once per card. I'm just looking at how it could be misinterpreted.


nondeskript wrote:
I would like to mention that I do actually understand how the power works. It is clear that you only get the +1/2 once per card. I'm just looking at how it could be misinterpreted.

Understood (I never thought you didn't). And I see what you say about how it could be misinterpreted. Like I said, I think that is because of some assumptions about how displayed cards work. Which is kind of what you said earlier. Carrying assumptions from one card to another is the fault of the reader, at least in my opinion.

For instance, it can also be easy to miss that a few of the S&S allies have "THEN" checks to acquire if you were used to allies only have "OR" checks to acquire.


Hawkmoon269 wrote:
Orbis Orboros wrote:
Something.

Hey! There you are! I was just wondering last night where you'd been. Even checked to see when you last posted. It hadn't been too long, but you'd been no where near as active as usual. You almost had me worried.

Good to be missed! :D

Nah, I've been here, I check the site throughout every workday. I just haven't had much to say on recent topics. It doesn't help that a lot of them I have no idea what's going on in since my playgroup more or less evaporated. If I can't get some folks together soon, I may have to resort to just solo play... :/

Lantern Lodge

I think the easiest way to clear up this sort of potential misinterpretation is to not play with people that bend the rules that hard for a benefit. Unfortunately, they don't wear a sign and by the time you figure it out, it's usually too late to do anything without looking like a jerk.

Don't get me wrong we all sometimes wind up with "that guy" at the table. Perhaps a friend brought their little brother. Perhaps you met him at the FLGS. Regardless of how he wound up at the table, it becomes quickly obvious that he's only interested in having the best and the most.

Inevitably, the game comes to an end and everyone is miserable. This is the time to say "Thanks for dropping by! By the way, have you ever considered playing Munchkin? I think you'd really like it."

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