20 U.S. Companies that Paid 0% in Taxes


Off-Topic Discussions


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Good Job!! (^5's the room)

[ url = Yahoo! finance video thing ]

The List:

Merck (MRK)
Seagate Tech. (STX)
Thermo Fisher (TMO)
General Motors (GM)
Public Storage (PSA)
Iron Mountain (IRM)
Newmont Mining (NEM)
Eaton (ETN)
Avalonbay (AVB)
Kimco Realty (KIM)
Prologis (PLD)
Boston Properties (BXP)
Apartment Investment (AIV)
Plum Creek Timber (PCL)
Citirx Systems (CTXS)
Macerich (MAC)
News Corp (NWSA)
Essex Prop. (MRK)
First Solar (FSLR)

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The Exchange

We need to close the loopholes. Temporary tax credits to get something out of a company are one thing but they need to pay same as people do


Why don't we just roll in and close them up. If you don't pay taxes here you don't do business here.


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Both backwards. This is great news, it means their shareholder's have
more wealth; and profits only get taxed once, at the personal level, not twice as usual.

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The Exchange

Grand Magus wrote:

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Both backwards. This is great news, it means their shareholder's have
more wealth; and profits only get taxed once, at the personal level, not twice as usual.

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Wrong, the courts have said that the company is an entity so it gets taxed, no different than a large cash gift gets taxed by the one receiving it even though the giver was taxed to earn it


Andrew R wrote:
Grand Magus wrote:

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Both backwards. This is great news, it means their shareholder's have
more wealth; and profits only get taxed once, at the personal level, not twice as usual.

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Wrong, the courts have said that the company is an entity so it gets taxed, no different than a large cash gift gets taxed by the one receiving it even though the giver was taxed to earn it

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Right, but that is not the context here. These companies are
professionally managed and for sure filed an IRS tax return -- as you say,
by law they had too.

Edit: You could argue the Cost to Hedge vs. Realized Tax burdens; but,
again, I have to think those C-levels understand >Game Theory< and
didn't end up spending more to not pay tax than the cost of actually
paying tax. Because then they would be dumb.

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Here is the covariance matrix for the last 294 days.
(order as above)

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Σ :

3.11 1.20 0.93 0.80 0.83 0.83 0.33 0.85 0.93 0.95 1.36 1.11 1.07 0.87 1.27 0.93 0.25 3.11 2.19
1.20 9.66 1.75 1.78 2.19 1.76 1.17 2.34 2.38 3.12 3.40 2.56 3.10 2.05 2.55 3.49 0.49 1.20 3.89
0.93 1.75 3.64 1.52 0.89 1.15 0.42 1.27 1.08 1.12 1.72 1.26 1.27 1.01 2.12 1.31 0.44 0.93 2.92
0.80 1.78 1.52 3.96 1.09 1.12 0.79 2.04 1.08 1.60 1.83 1.21 1.45 1.21 1.80 1.48 0.41 0.80 2.33
0.83 2.19 0.89 1.09 3.47 1.16 0.58 1.14 2.63 2.84 3.95 3.24 3.05 1.87 1.58 3.08 0.24 0.83 3.46
0.83 1.76 1.15 1.12 1.16 4.44 0.47 1.08 1.16 1.43 1.71 1.29 1.38 1.19 1.42 1.52 0.34 0.83 2.40
0.33 1.17 0.42 0.79 0.58 0.47 6.77 0.64 0.63 0.69 1.15 0.82 0.93 0.53 0.51 0.67 0.18 0.33 3.01
0.85 2.34 1.27 2.04 1.14 1.08 0.64 3.26 1.36 1.52 2.19 1.71 1.66 1.30 2.08 1.75 0.41 0.85 3.73
0.93 2.38 1.08 1.08 2.63 1.16 0.63 1.36 3.56 3.29 4.13 3.40 3.33 2.25 1.56 3.21 0.13 0.93 3.69
0.95 3.12 1.12 1.60 2.84 1.43 0.69 1.52 3.29 4.59 5.17 4.12 3.97 2.46 1.86 4.11 0.23 0.95 4.65
1.36 3.40 1.72 1.83 3.95 1.71 1.15 2.19 4.13 5.17 6.80 4.31 5.04 3.38 2.26 5.28 0.33 1.36 5.59
1.11 2.56 1.26 1.21 3.24 1.29 0.82 1.71 3.40 4.12 4.31 4.32 3.94 2.75 1.73 4.08 0.12 1.11 3.95
1.07 3.10 1.27 1.45 3.05 1.38 0.93 1.66 3.33 3.97 5.04 3.94 5.36 2.67 1.70 4.05 0.21 1.07 5.02
0.87 2.05 1.01 1.21 1.87 1.19 0.53 1.30 2.25 2.46 3.38 2.75 2.67 3.39 1.51 2.63 0.34 0.87 3.33
1.27 2.55 2.12 1.80 1.58 1.42 0.51 2.08 1.56 1.86 2.26 1.73 1.70 1.51 16.42 1.86 0.26 1.27 3.80
0.93 3.49 1.31 1.48 3.08 1.52 0.67 1.75 3.21 4.11 5.28 4.08 4.05 2.63 1.86 5.96 0.32 0.93 4.45
0.25 0.49 0.44 0.41 0.24 0.34 0.18 0.41 0.13 0.23 0.33 0.12 0.21 0.34 0.26 0.32 1.91 0.25 0.69
3.11 1.20 0.93 0.80 0.83 0.83 0.33 0.85 0.93 0.95 1.36 1.11 1.07 0.87 1.27 0.93 0.25 3.11 2.19
2.19 3.89 2.92 2.33 3.46 2.40 3.01 3.73 3.69 4.65 5.59 3.95 5.02 3.33 3.80 4.45 0.69 2.19 20.59


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oooh... good news: "The cost of hedging has fallen dramatically in recent months." ( bit.ly/YM214H )

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Grand Magus wrote:

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oooh... good news: "The cost of hedging has fallen dramatically in recent months." ( bit.ly/YM214H )

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Summer break is over and all of my knowledge of Japanese has evaporated.


Summer break is over and all of my knowledge of Japanese has evaporated.

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Spanish may serve you more meat.

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Grand Magus wrote:
Summer break is over and all of my knowledge of Japanese has evaporated.

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Spanish may serve you more meat.

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I don't know what that means but alright.

I had 7 years of Spanish and can't really speak a word.


meatrace wrote:


Summer break is over and all of my knowledge of Japanese has evaporated.
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Spanish may serve you more meat.

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I don't know what that means but alright.
I had 7 years of Spanish and can't really speak a word.

I just meant you could get more jobs in america as a restaurant waiter

using your spanish skills than your japanese skills. But apparently you
possess each with equal skill. Public school?

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Georgia Tech wants you to learn too
nerds = look at me mom


I don't mind them not paying taxes...IF...and this is the kicker...the CEO and upper management make no more than 20X what the average employee does. If any of them make more...I say it doesn't matter what the tax loopholes are...tax that company at the standard rate with no deductions.

Then ensure that ALL income no matter from what source is taxed as per if it were earned on as a job...if they make more than 20X more than the average employee.

(In truth, I might even put a BIGGER tax penalty than what exists on them for making over 20X average employee pay).

One of the biggest problems that I see in encouraging CEO's and presidents to raise the worker pay is that there is a rising divide between what they make, and the workers they employ make.

Force penalties on them for that...and I bet you'd suddenly start seeing employees and workers make more money.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
GreyWolfLord wrote:

I don't mind them not paying taxes...IF...and this is the kicker...the CEO and upper management make no more than 20X what the average employee does. If any of them make more...I say it doesn't matter what the tax loopholes are...tax that company at the standard rate with no deductions.

Then ensure that ALL income no matter from what source is taxed as per if it were earned on as a job...if they make more than 20X more than the average employee.

(In truth, I might even put a BIGGER tax penalty than what exists on them for making over 20X average employee pay).

One of the biggest problems that I see in encouraging CEO's and presidents to raise the worker pay is that there is a rising divide between what they make, and the workers they employ make.

Force penalties on them for that...and I bet you'd suddenly start seeing employees and workers make more money.

Yeah, I did this topic already. The consensus was "they (the corporate executives and ceos) would figure out a loophole or other way to ignore/get around it". Change their workforce into "independent contractors", use holding companies, so on.


Scythia wrote:
GreyWolfLord wrote:

I don't mind them not paying taxes...IF...and this is the kicker...the CEO and upper management make no more than 20X what the average employee does. If any of them make more...I say it doesn't matter what the tax loopholes are...tax that company at the standard rate with no deductions.

Then ensure that ALL income no matter from what source is taxed as per if it were earned on as a job...if they make more than 20X more than the average employee.

(In truth, I might even put a BIGGER tax penalty than what exists on them for making over 20X average employee pay).

One of the biggest problems that I see in encouraging CEO's and presidents to raise the worker pay is that there is a rising divide between what they make, and the workers they employ make.

Force penalties on them for that...and I bet you'd suddenly start seeing employees and workers make more money.

Yeah, I did this topic already. The consensus was "they (the corporate executives and ceos) would figure out a loophole or other way to ignore/get around it". Change their workforce into "independent contractors", use holding companies, so on.

Which is why you do what we know works. What we've seen work in the past.

Higher minimum wages to set a floor.
More legal support for unionization to negotiate on a closer to equal footing above that floor.
High marginal personal tax rates to make it less effective to make those huge incomes rather than leave the money in the business.

As an addition - A Tobin tax to discourage the Wall Street casino and help insure it's more profitable to invest in building businesses rather than gamble on the market.


This is probably (5)-behavior.


No business pays taxes. They collect taxes - from their customers.

This is why when business taxes go up, prices go up.


Fergurg wrote:

No business pays taxes. They collect taxes - from their customers.

This is why when business taxes go up, prices go up.

It depends entirely on the market and the company's margin. Companies operating on low margins this is true. Companies operating on higher margins are likely to eat the costs to prevent people from going to a competitor or stop buying their product.


Caineach wrote:
Fergurg wrote:

No business pays taxes. They collect taxes - from their customers.

This is why when business taxes go up, prices go up.

It depends entirely on the market and the company's margin. Companies operating on low margins this is true. Companies operating on higher margins are likely to eat the costs to prevent people from going to a competitor or stop buying their product.

It also depends on the tax. Taxes on supplies usually are passed on.

Taxes on profits can't be so easily. If you could raise your prices and increase profit, you would do so regardless of the tax rate on your profit. Such taxes also have the advantage of encouraging businesses to reinvest the money rather than take it as profit.

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