Pathfinder 2E: Fixing The Fighter and Other Martial Classes


Homebrew and House Rules


D&D5E is out and it has some good points and bad points in and and it is a little bit of fun being hinest. It can't compare to the options available in Pathfinder but for me that is a selling point. I do not think I will invest heavily in it but a PHB purchase and the odd game may be played.

One thing I did like was that they have made "super feats". You get less of them but they are more powerful. FOr example Heavy Armor Master IIRC gives you +1 strength and DR 3 vs non magical bludgeoning, piercing and slashing damage.

By 3.x standards you also get several feats for free at level one for example dex to hit, damage and on ranged weapons which is worth probably 3 feats all by itself and Rogues get a version of spring attack in effect by level 3. You can also use your movement before and after you attacks and combine that with your attacks as well. For example if you have 30' movement and 2 attacks you could move 10, have an attack, move up to 20 feet and have your 2nd attack and Rogues at level 3 can do this without provoking attacks of opportunity. You can also dual wield with no penalty on the attacks and anyone can do this so that is worth another 3 feats or so right there.

Most of that is actually an indirect buff to martial characters. I am not a big fan of dex to damage for free but I have used a home brew improved weapon finesse feat that grants dex to damage. In Pathfinder and 3.5 before ir 2 handed weapon users get a triple dip advantage on using THW as they get larger damage dice, +50 or +100% strength bonus to damage, and a greater effect out of power attack. This tends to make any one handed weapon somewhat pointless in terms of damage unless you are something like a Magus or Rogue who can layer on extra damage from class abilities.

Another arguement I have made on these forums was the 2E to 3.0 changeover actually nerfed the fighter in terms of power relative to the editions they were in. Weapon specialization in 2nd ed actually mattered and a +1 or +2 bonus to hit was very good and you could get this in several ways. A dual wielding fighter using longswords and the fighters hand book was a death dealing machine with great saving throws. Some retroclones have buffed two handed wepaons up to 1d12/2d6 damage as in AD&D the difference was a d8 vs a d10 for a two handed sword for example.

3.x games also heavily focus on combat as AD&D had proficiencies but they broke them into weapon and non weapon so you did not really lose out in comparison to 3.x if you spent a feat on skill focus. AD&D did not use skill points but in Patfinder terms the classes had 3 or 4 skill points each you did not have the gulf of 2-8 skill points as a range. 5E D&D you get 2 trained skills (Rogue gets 4) and you et an extra 2 off your back grounds. Between 2E and 5E I tend to agree with this approach. If any classes get gimped on skills it should probably be the spell casters IMHO as they have spells that duplicate or exceed skill.

Feats havbve not aged that well either with weapon focus for example being unchanged more or less since 3.0. These feats were designed in an environment (AD&D) where a +1 or 2 bonus to hit or AC mattered a lot more than in 3.x based games. Pathfinder buffed dodge of course compared to 3.5 but alot o their ideas and assumptions didnot play out to much such as spring attack, great cleave etc the designers thought would be good. 3.0 to 3.5 buffed power attack and the Pathfinder PA in some ways buffed power attack again even though it did not really need it.

So my suggestion would be to tweak the feats in a hypothetical PF 2.0 along with some math tweaks to maybe reign in spell casters and two handed weapons. After playing AD&D again it was somewhat refreshing to see sword and board fighters being decent.

Some ideas so you get what I am talking about.

Weapon focus. +1 to hit with all weapons.

Weapon specialization, grants an extra attack 1 per encounter or something.

Ambidextrous: You can dual wield a a light weapon with your off hand at no penalty to hit.

Improved weapon finesse, dexterity to damage.

Spring Attack, stays the same dump the dodge and mobility feat requirements.
weapon specialization: You gain +2 damage with all weapons

Finally does this look like a fighter to you? Note I have used 3.x mechanics but buffed several things such as saves and skills. You also get to full attack as a standard action.

Fighter Human Level 4

AC 20
HD 4d10+8 (hp 34)
Saves Fort 10 Ref 11 Will+7 (base saves +5/+5/+4 at level 1)

Abilities: Str 8 Dex 18 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 13 Cha 12
Attacks 2,+10 dmg 1d6+6 (short swords) or
+10 long bow (dmg 1d8+2)

Skills: Acrobatics +11, Diplomacy +8 Perception +8 , Ride +11 Stealth,+11

Feats Ambidextrous, Weapon focus, weapon finesse, improved weapon finesse, spring attack, weapon specialization

Equipment: 2 master work short swords, mithril breastplate, cloak of resistance +1, master work long bow

A somewhat basic example but does this look like a 3.x fighter to you using a simple build to dual wield? Note that this is just theory crafting I am not using this as any sort of house rule.

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