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And as delightful as it is to bash them, they are not this thing. Furries have no interest in animals—they are focused solely on animal-people.
Well, that is not true of all them either. I have met, and know, those of both ends, and of varying degrees of the extreme.
You may not want to know how deep the rabbit hole goes, but it cannot be discussed here.
Also, no, this is not my thing.
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Maybe, but that is not them being furries. That's them being furries and also being into something which is illegal 'round these parts.
I'd compare it to...let's say a D&D player. He's a tabletop gamer. That has nothing to do with whether he plays WoW. They're similar, overlapping, but completely different groups.
Also, I'll point out that the brony fandom has people who are actually attracted to ponies as a really small minority. Most of us just like the show for the cute ponies smashing monsters into mountains. :P
It's different for each person. It's influenced by each culture and each time period you live in. There is no single answer to this question that will apply to everyone. However, males and females have different ways of thinking, different biological motivations and underlying thought patterns which influence how a given life experience will be internalized. When you are a male and make a female character, you're essentially taking a leap into the unknown. This makes it difficult to pretend to be something you're not when your reference points are invariably inaccurate.
The same applies to women playing males. All we can do is infer based on experience or use media clues and cultural contexts.Some guys identify as masculine by nature, are shy, introverted to varying degrees in varying ways. Some guys in that position will find it problematic for them as a person to behave on the opposite end of what they feel or believe is expected of them or acceptable. If you're an insecure male, playing as a female or acting at all can make you uncomfortable. If you're not a risk taker or in knowledgeable about your opposed gender the same can be true/ the permutations for why a given individual or group of people may have difficulty or feel uncomfortable playing a role that is not theirs is effectively innumerable and as varied as the grains of sand on a beach.
I do not feel comfortable playing female characters in some normally masculine roles. It feels disingenuous to the gender and is difficult to imagine it in any practical way. On the other hand there are female characters who I *think* that I understand better and...
Still, even if you discuss different ways of thinking and hormones and such, few of us have much experience as ax-swinging dwarves chopping up orcs or a spell casting elf bending the laws of phsyics to their whim. I'd imagine their brains would be very different from the normal human's.
It is completely normal to make that kind of jump, so why is gender that much of an issue?
Maybe, but that is not them being furries. That's them being furries and also being into something which is illegal 'round these parts.
I'd compare it to...let's say a D&D player. He's a tabletop gamer. That has nothing to do with whether he plays WoW. They're similar, overlapping, but completely different groups.
Also, I'll point out that the brony fandom has people who are actually attracted to ponies as a really small minority. Most of us just like the show for the cute ponies smashing monsters into mountains. :P
the same can be said about the loligoth, furry and monster girl fandoms. the perverts are actually a very small minority, that appears bigger than it is, due to the internet and the concept of exaggeration
They think that men and women must inherently act differently as characters.I know you are asking for advice, but you may be able to help me out.
I have a hard time fully understanding those uncomfortable with players playing PCs of a different gender, than their own.
I want to be able to make a better gaming experience for all those I play with, so I want to have some insight.
What, specifically, makes this so uncomfortable?
This. Your PC's class is far more relevant than their gender. If you looked at your characters' exploits, I bet you could swap their genders and very little would be different.
the same can be said about the loligoth, furry and monster girl fandoms. the perverts are actually a very small minority, that appears bigger than it is, due to the internet and the concept of exaggerationMaybe, but that is not them being furries. That's them being furries and also being into something which is illegal 'round these parts.
I'd compare it to...let's say a D&D player. He's a tabletop gamer. That has nothing to do with whether he plays WoW. They're similar, overlapping, but completely different groups.
Also, I'll point out that the brony fandom has people who are actually attracted to ponies as a really small minority. Most of us just like the show for the cute ponies smashing monsters into mountains. :P
Yo, this ain't the place, but I got a friend who's that kind of furry. I'd appreciate you not calling him a pervert (at least for that particular reason). I know it's easy to just lash out at the part a fandom we don't like being profiled as, but it's not a good thing. :P
We now return to your regularly scheduled programming: Transgender cats. 'Cuz why not?
This. Your PC's class is far more relevant than their gender. If you looked at your characters' exploits, I bet you could swap their genders and very little would be different.They think that men and women must inherently act differently as characters.I know you are asking for advice, but you may be able to help me out.
I have a hard time fully understanding those uncomfortable with players playing PCs of a different gender, than their own.
I want to be able to make a better gaming experience for all those I play with, so I want to have some insight.
What, specifically, makes this so uncomfortable?
This said, gender does play a role in a character for the same reason any physical difference plays a role. In addition, gender roles aside, there are measurable differences in how men and women don't behave similarly. I'm taking COMM 218, I'm basically an expert on this stuff.
On the matter of physical differences, though (since the other bit is a huge can of worms), we have different emotional reflexes towards different characters. How do we view a sinister necromancer with a limp? With albinism? Do we view him differently if he's fat or thin? Male or female? Fat female or thin male?
This is a delicate topic, but there are differences. It's just a matter of how we view different "appearance archetypes". In a story, we like to build everything about a character around the role that character plays. Grima Wormtongue is pallid, with greasy hair and a drawling, unpleasant manner of speaking. Gandalf is tall and dignified, but often walks hunched, making us think of a man bearing many burdens (or, at first, simply a feeble old man). Dale the Whale from "Monk" is utterly obese and always grinning, fulfilling the Fat Bastard trope. How'd he get that fat? Probably from lying around and eating babies.
Are these bad? Is the Gandalf appearance archetype ageist? No, it's just a sort of shorthand. Appearance is one of the many tools moviemakers (and show makers and theater people and whatever) use to reinforce how a character is. It's not racist, or sexist (though if you use it wrong, it is, and there's currently not nearly enough archetype diversity for women). It just...is.
I'm into animation. In case you can't tell, I think about this a lot.
In this case, the guy views his character as male. I honestly don't see anything wrong with preferring that a character be one gender. Personally, I like to play girls, and I wouldn't like if my female kobold bard/ranger suddenly became a dude.
Oh, absolutely. It sucked Dale didn't show up in the finale, really. Woulda made a whole lot more sense than [spoilerz]random guy we've never seen before![/notreallyspoilerz]
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@lemeres, I covered that in my long post above. Basically, it is about projection. When I project myself into some character to live out a fantasy, I may or may not identify with certain elements based on gender.
We may not be plate armored dwarves and halflings wizards but we can imagine ourselves as such and identify with what we would do in those situations. We can even nuance how we think we would react in a given situation of we had those options and powers. Generally when role playing, we're projecting some aspect of our psyche and adapting it for presentation.
But a lot of guys have no idea or interest in projecting themselves as something they completely are not, like a female. The reverse can be true.
If you never identified with your feminine side, or dislike your feminine qualities or have an interest (for whatever reason) in fantasizing about being a female, then you probably won't want to project being one. You will probably have difficulty and experience discomfort.
That's why the game allows us to choose what we want to play. We play the things we feel we can identify with or that we want to connect with in some fashion. I would never assume that a person role playing should play a race or role (whatever it may be) or gender they did not want to. If I got heat for choosing to only play male characters and then got questioned on my motives underlying the choice...I'd put up my walls (intentionally) because nobody has any business knowing me that deeply unless they're intimately involved with me. Thoughts and feelings are not automatically shared for a reason, after all. So I find it odd that there is even an assumption that someone *should* be willing to play something they are not comfortable playing and that the reasoning behind that discomfort would come into question. Particularly on a subject that more than tangientally touches on gender identity, conformity and role.
If you don't want to play a male, don't. Whatever your reason it isn't for me to judge outside of a therapy session. The only times it should be an issue is if the whole party is supposed to be males or females or whatever. In cases such as that you're doing very superficial projection in which case it's fine if you are utterly untrue to the gender differences or preconceptions.
This guy doesn't want to be a girl. And honestly, if I was doing a cat, with the way I feel right now, I really wouldn't want to play it as female either. But in a few weeks or a month from now, I might have the interest or desire to play a female cat, specifically. As it stands I have a nature oracle idea that I feel great loathing at the idea of it being a male. I even have difficulty imagining it as such. The interactions, my personal comfort level and rp opportunities and capabilities scream female to me in every way. If I were surprised by a gm and told I was a male, I would simply refuse to play the character and make something else to play. In *that* case, gender matters a lot. It's defining. This is probably true with around 50% of my characters. The rest of the time I play around with which gender feels cooler or more fun or which I could rp better, etc with the concept.
the stigma surrounding furries, isn't much difference from the stigma surrounding bronies or the stigma surrounding individuals of the loligoth fandom or even any different from the stigma surrounding the monster girl fandom. while all 4 fandoms get a bad reputation that demonizes their members as sick minded perverts, i can say, that while overly defensive about their fandoms and highly devoted, most of the bronies, loligoths, monster girl lovers or furries i met at conventions in Nevada were actually nice people and nothing like the perverts the internet makes them out to be.
... Thank you. You have restored a little bit of my faith in general humanity. As a member of 3 of those 4 groups (loligoths are adorable and hug-worthy, but I hate kids in general and that puts a damper on 'em)... I cannot even begin to tell you how badly those stigmas have practically destroyed my social life. Even with friends that knew me for years instantly 180'd, and acted like stereotypical deep-south homophobics finding out their bad-ass well-loved buddy was actually gay.
We're not ALL hyper macro horse-donged futanari worshipping demons!
Now, to finish reading the thread.
Edit: Having finished reading the rest of the thread...
The transgender cat thing is genius. Sexual organs do not denote one's mental gender. I can personally attest to this, being of variable gender myself. Just 'cause I've got something swingin' 'tween my knees didn't stop me from identifying as female yesterday, and didn't stop me from identifying as neutral today.
Still, if the guy is really squicked out by it, he should see about getting his kitty's gender swapped ASAP.
Personally, this thread has inspired me to play a spellcasting cat. Initially was going to go Oracle with Deaf, but forgot I need Still as well as Silence.... So I'm just gonna have to grab Sacred Geometry and use that. Hmm.... I wonder how Transformation would work on a cat sorcerer... Kehehehehe....
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We're not ALL hyper macro horse-donged futanari worshipping demons!
Is there a CR for those?
We're not ALL hyper macro horse-donged futanari worshipping demons!Is there a CR for those?
I think the CR depends on your squick factor.
And before someone gets on my tail about that comment: I will happily admit to falling into "pervert" territory for the fandom. Just trying to point out we're not ALL trying to spew our interests all over everyone else in a "one of us!" kind of way I've seen some people try and paint it.
So the character's soul got trapped in a cat and his concern is that it's a female cat?
What?
I don't understand this character's motivation at all.
In a MMORPG, females are often IMO drawn much better than males of their species (not always but most of the time). So, though I haven't played tabletop RPG as a female except as a stock premade character, I've played quite a few MMORPG's as female.
I can attest, unless I want to be superflex beefcake, female is usually cooler. Unless of course it's a chainmail bikini kind of game. I'm willing to wear subpar armour for a good look though, so I might be an outlier.
i'm a member of the loligoth and monster girl fandoms, as is the boyfriend i share this paizo account and so many other things with. thing is, i could pass for a legal loligoth model anywhere except australia due to my small underdeveloped frame and soft delicate features. we have a friend who we played with that was into all four, and he was also a nice guy. but we play petite female characters on the tabletop for the same reason we play them on MMOs. because we like pint sized and adorable things, like loligoths, sidhe, or nymphs for example, but not gnomes or halflings.
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That sounds like a fun campaign to me. Heck, looking at how many of the iconics already have pets/companions/familiars/mounts, it wouldn't be a big change for them.I tried running one once. Most people got familiars for free, but some(like special NPCs and the player characters) got Eidolons. If you took a class that gave you a familiar or an Eidolon, it instead gave you nothing. No playing a Summoner for two Eidolons, and Eidolom and a familiar, etc.
Everyone had fun, especially when I voiced their Eidolons, or the farmer character's pointy stick got more kills than the kendo sword.
oh that's the holdup,
There's a feat, requires arcane caster level 3+
It's called "obtain familiar"No, pretty sure that's rules. If there is a way to get a familiar for free -no feats, classes, traits or prestige classes needed- then everyone, literally everyone, would have them and we'd be playing Golden Compass characters.
ok ? And? What's your problem with them taking the feat?
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@blackblood lol, this is true, though as a DM you already knew you were playing multiple roles and should be prepared for this or at least to try to enact your perception of what different people behave like.
@Stabbald, We are talking about the player and the players concerns. The player ultimately dictates everything about the character, there for if the player cannot find sufficient motivation, interest, conceptualization or or confidence for actualization of a female role, then the characters concerns and motivations should likely follow and be reflective of this. I would feel this way if my cleric had to be female. I lack a female framework to make a functional character with parameters it operates under. I only know and understand a male in that position. The reverse is true for my oracle, though to a lesser degree. I could understand, somewhat, a male character like it, but it just isn't the same or nearly as good as it being a female.
@kikidmonkey, true, gender is not always defining but it is probably defining as often as it isn't. Gender is not always about which sex you were born as or hormones, either but is decidedly personal and usually based on sex and hormones. That said, we cannot in any way, take up issue or rightfully bring light to any given persons interest in or lacktherof when it comes to gender and having to spend several hours of their free time behaving as a particular one. Not behaving as your characters gender is missing out on a great rp tool, though. Some people use it. Some people don't.
No, you do not have to behave any differently based on a characters gender. But we know that in reality there is a difference and there are different behaviors so not making any adjustments is disingenuous. But that's OK. Some people are not particularly good actors or imaginative or whatever. They're allowed to play themselves in every race, as each gender and as every class.
I find that quality of role play is enhanced when people bring out any elements of a character that have a ring of truth, parallel real-life associated experiences, or emulate expected behavior patterns. This includes but is not limited to gender.
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I'm enjoying the way we're tip-toeing through this conversation, there are so ways it could've gone too far.
He misspoke (or was misinformed). Because of feline genetics almost all Calico (official definition of calico being having fur of white, black, and orange (each color can vary by shade)) cats are female. It is extremely rare to have a calico male. Your two-toned cat was not a calico cat.at people who are like "how do they even know?"
only female cats have multiple colorings.
My male Siamese cat, with both dark and light brown fur was female? Learn something every day. :P
I think what you meant is that only female (and the rare XX male) cats are calico.
Right, it's calico because the calico genes are only carried on the X chromosome, so the cat must have TWO X genes with the calico trait to be a calico... something that a male cannot normally have. However, the male calico are XXY, known as Klinefelter's Syndrome. It can affect all species, even humans. I said this earlier in the thread, but am repeating it since you said the "rare XX male" which is mispeaking yourself, since an XX is female.