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Zenith's Guide to the Ninja


Advice

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Shadow Lodge

2 people marked this as a favorite.

I've made a guide to the Ninja! Comments, questions, and concerns are appreciated. Let me know if you disagree with anything, or if I've left anything out.

Part I: Introduction, Attributes, & Races
Part II: Ninja Tricks
Part III: Feats
Part IV: Equipment, Multi-Classing, & Builds


Looks nice! I checked, and you didn't mention Bewildering Koan; I thought I'd point it out in case it's an oversight. It's the one thing that makes a gnome ninja quite viable, as it can be ridiculously powerful if used well.


Ohoh... no mention of Bewildering Koan? The Gnome Ninja's of this world disagree...


Some rather shady advice here on combat trick:

Rogue Talent: The ninja can select a rogue talent in place of a ninja trick. The ninja cannot select a rogue talent that has the same name as a ninja trick. The ninja can select this talent multiple times.

Apparently it works the other way around for Rogues but not for the poor Ninja...

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber

Razortusk is also a terrible feat. There are two ways for a half-orc to get a bite attack that don't take a feat. There is the Toothy alternate racial trait and the Tusked Race Trait.

Shadow Lodge

@ Rudy2 & Alex Mack: Bewilding Koan has been added! What an incredibly good ability.

@ Alex Mack: Thanks for pointing that out, I've updated it.

@ Imbicatus: Excellent point, and I've made a not of that.


Broken Zenith wrote:

I've made a guide to the Ninja! Comments, questions, and concerns are appreciated. Let me know if you disagree with anything, or if I've left anything out.

I'm surprised you rate Tengu as a race so poorly. Tengu lets you get 3 attacks per round from 1st level without any negatives to hit (unlike 2 weapon fighting) and is feat free.

Sczarni

c873788 wrote:
Broken Zenith wrote:

I've made a guide to the Ninja! Comments, questions, and concerns are appreciated. Let me know if you disagree with anything, or if I've left anything out.

I'm surprised you rate Tengu as a race so poorly. Tengu lets you get 3 attacks per round from 1st level without any negatives to hit (unlike 2 weapon fighting) and is feat free.

This. I'm surprised you didn't give some more love to the Natural Attack build, which is arguably the most effective Melee build (for a Ninja/Rogue) for a game capped at level 12 like PFS.

Consider that in PFS a TWF Ninja will at most have the following (base) attack routine with a two feat investment: +7/+7/+2/+2. That's end game. 4 attacks at reduced BAB with diminishing effectiveness for less than half your career.

Comparatively a Natural Attack build with Claw/Claw/Bite will have +9/+9/+9 for their entire career. And there are a few ways to get this without investing any feats, or fewer feats than the TWF chain. Another bonus is that if you happen to have a decent STR, you get the full bonus to each attack.

If you really & truly believe that more attacks are better (quantity over quality), and IF your GM allows you to take Multiattack (which they should, provided you meet the prerequisites), you can add on more secondary attacks via magic items or combo with Unarmed Strikes (improved via feats or Tricks) at a -2 penalty (Note: PFS restricts access to Beastiary Feats and as far as I know they are only legal from alternate legal sources; such as 10 levels of Ranger w/natural weapon combat style). You can do this without Multiattack, but your secondary attacks are at BAB -5 (the same as a character using manufactured weapons & high BAB), so it's still arguably better than the TWF build.

Haste & Ki benefit both builds, but you could argue they benefit the Natural Attack build more since they are made at a higher bonus - and for a 3/4 BAB class that has trouble hitting the +2 is crucial.

Also, I feel you undervalue CHA. I prefer something better than a 12, which is pretty much useless... It's the defining class feature that makes you better than a Rogue after all!

Lastly, how come no mention of Rogue Archetypes? There are a few that stack - like Scout, I believe. Scout makes the single weapon/two-handler builds pretty darn effective and should up their colour rating at least one step.

Overall I think it's a great guide that could be improved with the additional mention of a Natural Attack build.

Cheers,

D

Dark Archive

I kind of feel that maybe you should expand a bit on levels 1-9. Basically, you say "Once you get to level 10 and get greater invisibility all the time, you are awesome!" Thats cool and all, but maybe expand and give suggestions on how to be awesome prior to that? I mean, in PFS, that would mean you are awesome your last 2 levels.

It did give me some decent ideas for my character though.

Shadow Lodge

@ c#s and Krodjin - Thanks for pointing that out. I'll build up a Tengu Ninja and see how he turns out.

@ Krodjin - Rogue archetypes are definitely on their way. Thanks for reminding me.

Regarding Charisma: If you don't have any Ninja tricks that key off of charisma (and I wouldn't suggest it for most builds), then literately the only thing Charisma does for this build is give extra ki. However, there is a feat that gives two extra ki which you can take multiple time. In my mind, this means that every +1 modifier of Charisma is worth only half a feat.

Compare that to Constitution: Every modifier of constitution provides one hit point a level (=Toughness feat) and a +1 bonus to fortitude (=1/2 of the Great Fortitude Feat). In my mind, this means that every +1 modifier of Constitution is worth 1.5 feats.

Let's look at it a different way. You have 2 feats to use, and can make either Constitution or Charisma +1.

With Charisma +1, you can grab toughness and extra ki. You wind up with +3 ki and +1 hp per level.

With Constitution +1, you can grab extra ki twice. You wind up with +4 ki, +1 hp per level, and +1 fortitude. It is strictly better.

@ Koujaw: Unfortunately, that's the way the Ninja works. He's fine through level 9, then becomes amazing at Level 10. That's not to say you shouldn't play him at lower levels, just be prepared for an immense power boost at level 10.

Shadow Lodge

Broken Zenith wrote:

@ c#s and Krodjin - Thanks for pointing that out. I'll build up a Tengu Ninja and see how he turns out.

@ Krodjin - Rogue archetypes are definitely on their way. Thanks for reminding me.

Regarding Charisma: If you don't have any Ninja tricks that key off of charisma (and I wouldn't suggest it for most builds), then literately the only thing Charisma does for this build is give extra ki.

I don't want to use a feat for extra ki. I'm busy using it for stuff I can't get any other way than feats.

Also, skills. Bluff and Intimidate have good in and out of combat uses. Diplomacy is possibly the 2nd to 3rd most useful skill in the game. UMD can rock.

Multiclassing: Oracle (one level then extra revelation), Paladin, get that feat that gives you cool sorcerous bloodline powers.

I'm not saying an 18 in cha is a good investment. It's not. But a 14 or maybe a 16 (with the right racial combo; i.e. +2 cha +2 Dex) makes a lot of sense.

A skill section is needed.

Shadow Lodge

Kerney wrote:


Multiclassing: Oracle (one level then extra revelation), Paladin, get that feat that gives you cool sorcerous bloodline powers.

...

A skill section is needed.

What revelations did you have in mind?

Eldritch heritage feat is mentioned, but not highly recommended.

I'm not sure a skill section is needed. Besides possibly Acrobatics (and bluff if you are feinting), there is nothing particular about a Ninja's skill choices that aren't obvious.


Alex Mack wrote:

Some rather shady advice here on combat trick:

Rogue Talent: The ninja can select a rogue talent in place of a ninja trick. The ninja cannot select a rogue talent that has the same name as a ninja trick. The ninja can select this talent multiple times.

Apparently it works the other way around for Rogues but not for the poor Ninja...

Ultimate Combat has a download Errata that states:

p2, right 2/3 down wrote:
  • Page 70—In the Rogue Talents class feature, in the Ninja Trick entry, add the following after the first
    sentence:
The rogue cannot choose a ninja trick with the same name as a rogue talent.

that makes it:

Quote:
Ninja Trick (Ex): A rogue with this talent can choose a trick from the ninja trick list (see pages 14–16). The rogue cannot choose a ninja trick with the same name as a rogue talent. The rogue can choose but cannot use talents that require ki points, unless she has a ki pool. A rogue can pick this talent more than once.

This makes Rogue Talents = Ninja Tricks, since every named entry is the same as far as I know. Where it breaks down is Advanced Rogue Talents < Advanced Ninja Tricks, since Advanced Rogue Talents cannot select Advanced Ninja Tricks, but Advanced Ninja Tricks can select Advanced Rogue Talents.

/cevah

Shadow Lodge

Broken Zenith wrote:


What revelations did you have in mind?
Eldritch heritage feat is mentioned, but not highly recommended.

Revelations off the top of my head.

Battle, heaven/lunar for easy escapes, Metal, Time (free reroll), lunar/nature possible for flanking buddy with the right feat (one that increaes HD) and unarmed attacks.

Broken Zenith wrote:
I'm not sure a skill section is needed. Besides possibly Acrobatics (and bluff if you are feinting), there is nothing particular about a Ninja's skill choices that aren't obvious.

I think my mention of the skills is important ones for Cha are more of an argument for the importance of cha.

But skills are something that should be included because many people who are looking at a class guide are looking at for the first time; who maybe have never looked at a rogue-like build and are perhaps begining players.

That should be kept in mind.

Thanks for doing this and hope this is helpful.


Cool things! This actually got me interested in making a Ninja, never was too interested in the class before.

Likely going either Goblin or Monkey Goblin, regarding on whether I can take the FCB of Goblins for a Ninja.

Silver Crusade

I disagree with almost everything in your guide. TWF is horrible on a 3/4 BAB class that can't self-buff. I find that finessing an elven curve blade or the natural attack method are certainly the best options. One of the most effective characters I've ever made is a Muse-touched Aasimar ninja that uses an ECB.

I also have a tiefling with 3 natural attacks. Maw or Claw alternate racial trait for 2 claws and Adopted trait to take Tusked for a bite. I still took weapon finesse with him as I plan on stacking his AC as high as I possibly can. I'm thinking I can regularly get it up over 30 what with 24 Dex, mithral kikko, Offensive Defensive, Armor of the Pit feat, Amulet of Natural Armor, Ring of Protection, Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier, and a few other things.


Comments:
part 1
Dexterity: This does not affect melee unless you have the feat (or combat trick) Weapon Finesse.

part 2
Missed a word: "Ninja's get one Ninja Trick [every] even level, ..."

Combat Trick: If you do not take this, then you can use forgotten trick to temporarily grab any combat feat. Think Paragon Surge.

Flurry of Stars: The short range increment (10') makes this not so good.

Vanishing Trick: This is great for avoiding AoOs and being attacked in melee. I rate as blue(****). It and Weapon Finesse are priorities for a dexterity build.

Forgotten Trick: The Ring of Ki Mastery mitigates the cost, making this much better.

High Jumper: This gets much better at 10th level. You can now jump equal to your acrobatics skill rather than 1/4th.

Dispelling Attack: I would downgrade this due to needing Minor Magic and Major Magic talents first.

Master Disguise: You forgot a star in the rating.

part 3
Dazzling Display & Shatter Defenses: Not sure it works as well as you think. Full round to intimidate, within 30'. [You have good Charisma for the skill, right?] You can move at best 5'. You are squishy, and in easy striking range of everything you want to kill. Next round you get flat footed opponents.

Combat Patrol: set up AoOs.

part 4
Feather Step Boots: ignore difficult terrain

Ring of Ki Mastery: reduces cost of Forgotten Trick

Monk: Get Evasion at 2nd, and feats at 1st & 2nd. The saves also help.

Spellcasters: Cantrips = ranged touch attack for sneak attacks. Umd is much easier when you don't have to roll for 1/2 the spells. Oracles & Sorcerers are Charisma based, as is your Ki, so you get better spells here. Remember, a spellcaster dip is for versatility, not combat.

/cevah

Dark Archive

I'd boost Grippli from orange, Zenith.

Gripplis can produce their own level-scaling poison to use on their blades, and they start with a climb speed. From very early levels they can invisibly climb on the ceiling and drop, dealing Sneak Attack poison to their foes.

It may look like a niche trick, and isn't great after level 7 or so, but it's brutal at low levels.

Plus you are a frog ninja.

-----

The other thing is a multiclass option. Dervish Dancer Bard gives Kukris and a uniquely silent self-buff and Bard spells. You key off Dex and Cha like a Ninja.


Broken Zenith wrote:

@ c#s and Krodjin - Thanks for pointing that out. I'll build up a Tengu Ninja and see how he turns out.

The other advantages to this are that you are covering off bludgeoning, slashing and piercing with your natural attacks against DR. You also save a large amount of gold as you can apply a +1 bonus or equivalent to 3 weapon attacks for the price of 4000gp.

In an unrelated point, I found the scout archetype invaluable with the Ninja as it gives you an easy option for succeeding with a sneak attack given that this is not always an easy thing to do.


You should make mention of the feat Butterfly Sting from Faiths of Purity. It lets you transfer a crit to an ally. So with a feat and a high crit weapon, you could have an ally who 2-hands a high crit mod weapon (like a scythe) to tag-team people to death. Ninja gets the crit and transfers to the Barb who then does x4 damage on his next hit.

For the Unarmed Ninja you should add in the feat Knockout Artist.

Also, the Unarmed Ninja can be combined with the Sap Adept Ninja to devastating effect (Sap Master doubles Sap Adept and Knockout Artist). I built an NPC with this idea for use in my games and he turned out to be a pretty scary ambush enemy. Nikrii Lon was built with 15 pt buy and NPC wealth in a heroic fantasy game.

I do kind of feel that you're over-valuing TWF. Typically, TWF is awful for 3/4 BAB classes unless they can self-enhance their attacks (even then, it's iffy). Mainly, because they just don't have the attack bonus to keep up with it.

The Ninja can get away with it, though, because he can turn himself invisible. However it heavily relies on the enemy being susceptible to invisibility, and as levels rise, this becomes less and less reliable.

[Edit] Also, Wisdom should never be dumped on a class that has a bad Will save.

You should probably recommend a Wayfinder and a resonating Clear Spindle Ioun stone. It makes the Ninja immune to mind control/possession spells as per Protection from Evil.


Also, you count as your own ally for Butterfly Sting and other such effects.


Ipslore the Red wrote:
Also, you count as your own ally for Butterfly Sting and other such effects.

Eh... If I could do enough damage to make my Crit worthwhile, then I wouldn't be taking Butterfly Sting in the first place. The whole point of Butterfly Sting is to be transfering your Crit that deals ~ok damage to someone who doesn't crit as often, but does massive damage when he does.

Though.... I guess it could be worthwhile to use Butterfly Sting to transfer the Crit from your Wakisashi Off-hand to your Light Pick mainhand or something.


Tels wrote:

Also, the Unarmed Ninja can be combined with the Sap Adept Ninja to devastating effect (Sap Master doubles Sap Adept and Knockout Artist).

Has this issue been resolved? I never saw an FAQ on it...

Shadow Lodge

@ Kerney: Which specific reevaluations inside those Mysteries did you have in mind? I'm not seeing any that would justify a curse and delaying of sneak attack and BAB.

@ Bigdaddyjug: It seems like you disagree with one thing - TWF. I'm building up a natural attack Tengu and strength ninja to compare.

@ Cevah: Thanks, edited little places.

@ Captain K: Good point, I've upped them to green.

@ Tels: Added knockout artist. Excellent point about Butterfly sting, that's a great addition.

Added a bit on Archetypes in the first section.

For those espousing the natural weapon Tengu doctrine - is this a strength or a dexterity/finesse build?

Silver Crusade

Broken Zenith wrote:
@ Bigdaddyjug: It seems like you disagree with one thing - TWF. I'm building up a natural attack Tengu and strength ninja to compare.

Don't forget tieflings for a natural attack build as well. Maw or Claw for 2 claw attacks and Adopted -> Tusked for a bite attack. Why take the Con hit if you just don't have to?

Also, you don't necessarily have to go Str build with natural attacks. Natural attacks are finessable and an agile Amulet of Mighty Fists is only 4000g.

I just recently started playing a tiefling rogue in PFS that has the 3 natural attacks and I plan on making him an AC monster. As a front-liner with a high acrobatics skill, getting in flanking position shouldn't be a problem, and with 3 attacks all doing sneak attack, I'll definitely be the threat the enemy wants to focus on. I think I figured out that I could easily get his AC to 32 or 33 by level 8. When I get a chance I'll post a build. Is there a specific level you'd like to see the build for? I could easily make him a ninja instead.

Edit: Just realized I was misinterpreting you. You weren';t implying a Str-based natural attacker, but 2 seperate characters, 1 Str-based and 1 using natural attacks.


Broken Zenith wrote:
For those espousing the natural weapon Tengu doctrine - is this a strength or a dexterity/finesse build?

Tengu Ability adjustments +2 DEX +2 WIS -2 CON

Shadow Lodge

@ Bigdaddyjug - The feat list would be great, but level 8 or 12 would be fine.

So people seem to think finesse is the way to go with natural attacks? Alright, I'll build that out and see what it looks like.


Broken Zenith wrote:

@ Bigdaddyjug - The feat list would be great, but level 8 or 12 would be fine.

So people seem to think finesse is the way to go with natural attacks? Alright, I'll build that out and see what it looks like.

Tieflings could also go STR as they have an alt race that give +2 STR, +2 CHA -2 INT. But light armor and low DEX plus high damage output seems like asking for trouble. Then again Mithral Breastplate and Armor Expert work out nicely.

Up to level 4 or so where you can afford the agile AoMF STR is prolly better but afterwards DEX likely pulls ahead.

Also note since the natural weapon path ties up so few Feats you can also use the following trick. Get the blade of mercy trait. Since claws deal piercing and slashing damage you can deal nonlethal damage with claws. Now they qualify for Enforcer, Sap Adept and Sap MAster.

Shadow Lodge

Tengu Bite/claw/claw ninja is in: Blackbeak. Let me know if there is anything I seriously messed up.

He handily outshines the classic ninja in the earlier levels, though the difference decreases over time. At level 12ish the classic ninja begins outshining the Tengu, but who really plays that long anyway? An extremely good choice if you don't mind being a Tengu, Tiefling, or similar, and I've marked it as such in the guide.

Silver Crusade

Broken Zenith wrote:

@ Bigdaddyjug - The feat list would be great, but level 8 or 12 would be fine.

So people seem to think finesse is the way to go with natural attacks? Alright, I'll build that out and see what it looks like.

If I ever get to go to lunch, I'll make a level 12 version of the tiefling natural attacker. Also, be on the lookout for a trait called Militia. It gives a +1 on attacks you execute while in a flanking position. I think it is from UCam and just screams rogue to me. I'm actually having trouble deciding on just two traits for my tiefling natural attacker. Fate's Favored (to go with Jingasa), Indomitable Faith, and Militia are all very attractive.

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber
Bigdaddyjug wrote:
Broken Zenith wrote:

@ Bigdaddyjug - The feat list would be great, but level 8 or 12 would be fine.

So people seem to think finesse is the way to go with natural attacks? Alright, I'll build that out and see what it looks like.

If I ever get to go to lunch, I'll make a level 12 version of the tiefling natural attacker. Also, be on the lookout for a trait called Militia. It gives a +1 on attacks you execute while in a flanking position. I think it is from UCam and just screams rogue to me. I'm actually having trouble deciding on just two traits for my tiefling natural attacker. Fate's Favored (to go with Jingasa), Indomitable Faith, and Militia are all very attractive.

You could always take extra traits for two more. Armor Expert for a Mithral Breastplate for the fourth, perhaps?

Silver Crusade

No armor expert needed. With high Dex, a Mithral Kikko gives you the same AC and doesn't require Armor Expert as the ACP drops to 0 when made of mithral. I'm still considering Extra Traits, though. Suicidal (tiefling racial trait) would be nice if you're gonna have a really high AC.


How fun is the ninja during early levels?


For the Blackbeak build, doesn't the Scout archetype combine with the Tengu rogue archetype swordmaster? With trance replacing no trace rather than trap sense? Or is that just a flawlessly commonsensical house rule that I've mistaken for RAW regarding applying rogue archetypes to ninjas?


Note on Multi-Classing : The Urban Barbarian Archetype(which rules!)
loses the +10 bump to speed.

Shadow Lodge

@ Secret Wizard: Out of combat? A blast. With skills and tricks, you can do a lot. In combat? If you have two or more potential flanking partners, great. If you only have one, then prepare to get frustrated a lot, and be unable to sneak attack. If you have no flanking partners then you are going to have a very, very tough time getting sneak attack.

@ Ethereal: Blackbeak isn't taking the sword master archetype, so there isn't any problem there. He's just taking the scout archetype.

@ Bongo: Good point, and darn. That makes it a less ideal option.

Silver Crusade

Tiefling Ninja 12
Div-Spawn Tiefling Ninja 12 (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Race Guide 0; Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Combat 13)
LG Medium outsider (native)
Init +10; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +16
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 28, touch 19, flat-footed 21 (+7 armor, +6 Dex, +2 natural, +1 dodge)
hp 87 (12d8+24)
Fort +9, Ref +19, Will +10
Defensive Abilities evasion, improved uncanny dodge; Resist cold 5, electricity 5, fire 5
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft., light steps
Melee bite +15 (1d4+15) and
2 claws +15 (1d4+15)
Ranged +1 composite shortbow +18/+13 (1d6+2/×3)
Special Attacks ki attack speed, sneak attack +6d6
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 12th; concentration +14)
—shadow clone
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 13, Dex 27, Con 14, Int 6, Wis 12, Cha 14
Base Atk +9; CMB +7; CMD 32
Feats Additional Traits, Armor of the Pit[ARG], Blind-Fight, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Iron Will, Power Attack, Weapon Finesse
Traits adopted, fate's favored, militia, reactionary, tusked
Skills Acrobatics +23, Bluff +11, Diplomacy +19, Disable Device +25, Disguise +15, Perception +16, Stealth +23, Use Magic Device +17; Racial Modifiers ki jump (running start), no trace
Languages Abyssal, Common
SQ ki movement, ki pool, ki stealth, ninja tricks (bonus feat, combat trick, evasion, offensive defense, pressure points, shadow clone), poison use
Combat Gear jingasa of the fortunate soldier; Other Gear +2 mithral kikko armor, +1 composite shortbow, arrows (20), +1 agile menacing amulet of mighty fists, belt of incredible dexterity +6, cloak of resistance +3, backpack, masterwork, grappling arrow, silk rope (50 ft.), thieves' tools, masterwork, 11,508 gp
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Blind-Fight Re-roll misses because of concealment, other benefits.
Combat Reflexes (9 AoO/round) Can make extra attacks of opportunity/rd, and even when flat-footed.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Energy Resistance, Cold (5) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Cold attacks.
Energy Resistance, Electricity (5) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Electricity attacks.
Energy Resistance, Fire (5) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Fire attacks.
Evasion (Ex) If you succeed at a Reflex save for half damage, you take none instead.
Fate's Favored Increase luck bonuses by 1.
Improved Uncanny Dodge (Lv >=16) (Ex) Retain DEX bonus to AC when flat-footed. You cannot be flanked unless the attacker is Level 16+.
Jingasa of the fortunate soldier (1/day) Activate to negate a critical hit or sneak attack as an immediate action.
Ki Attack Speed (Su) By spending 1 point from her ki pool, a ninja can make one additional attack at her highest attack bonus, but she can do so only when making a full attack.
Ki Jump (Running Start, 1/2 DC) (Su) Jumping is always counted as being at a running start and Jumping DCs are halved.
Ki Movement A Ninja can spend 1 point to increase her speed by 20 feet for 1 round.
Ki Pool (Su) You have a ki pool equal to 1/2 your monk level + your Charisma modifier.
Ki Stealth A ninja can spend 1 point from her ki pool to give herself a +4 insight bonus on Stealth skill checks for 1 round.
Light Steps (Ex) When moving up to twice your normal movement, you may ignore difficult terrain and can move over any surface.
Militia +1 trait bonus to attack rolls when you flank a foe.
No Trace +4 (Ex) Survival DCs to track you are at +4, gain +4 to Stealth when you are stationary and not acting.
Offensive Defense (Ex) Sneak attack grants a +1 dodge bonus to AC for each die rolled vs. that foe.
Poison Use You do not risk poisoning yourself accidentally while poisoning a weapon.
Power Attack -3/+6 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Pressure Points (Su) A ninja with this trick can strike at an opponent's vital pressure points, causing weakness and intense pain. Whenever the ninja deals sneak attack damage, she also deals 1 point of Strength or Dexterity damage, decided by the ninja. Unlike normal ab
Shadow Clone (Su) The ninja can create 1d4 shadowy duplicates of herself that conceal her true location. This ability functions as mirror image, using the ninja's level as her caster level. Using this ability is a standard action that uses up 1 ki point.
Sneak Attack +6d6 Attacks deal extra dam if flank foe or if foe is flat-footed.

I'm sure there's some magic gear I've forgotten but the character had over 11,000g remaining. I'm open to critiques.


@Zenith: No, I know, but if it were possible, wouldn't taking sword master in combination with scout be the superior option? Anyway, I was just curious if that combo worked. Come to think of it I might be overestimating how much tiger trance could help a scout anyway...landing them combat maneuver checks and all...

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber

Sword master is a bit of a trap. Trance is extremely limited uses and has no way to increase rounds like rage or performance, it takes a full round to enter Trance, and the combat maneuver check is likely to fail.

It looks good on paper, but in practice it's very hard to pull off.


Could you clarify something for me, Zenith?

I see you rate the feat Two-Weapon Fighting as four stars, yet you rate the Monk multiclass at two stars, citing that "flurry isn't helping you." It's my understanding that Flurry of Blows is essentially Two-Weapon Fighting with only a single weapon required. Why the stark difference in stars there?

I also see that you have no rating for Improved Two-Weapon Feint, even though it would seem appropriate to a character who likes getting sneak attacks while fighting with two weapons. Why is that?

-Matt

Silver Crusade

Please note that in my build, the AC is actually 1 higher. For some reason, Fate's Favored does not trigger in HeroLab. I tried to activate that and the flanking condition (+4 to melee attacks because of the menacing agile +1 amulet of mighty fists), but it did not generate the stat block with those options checked off.

I'm also not entirely sure how spending a ki point for an extra attack (and also the haste and blessing of fervor spells) works with natural attacks. Do you pick 1 of your natural attacks and make a second attack with it? Does it not add anything to your attack sequence? I'm leaning towards it not adding anything to the attack sequence, but I'm hoping it's the other way. If ki attacks do add an additional attack for a natural attacker, a +2 Cha headband should definitely be one of the purchases from the remaining 11k.

Shadow Lodge

@ Mattastrophic: A few things here. First, you can only flurry with some weapons, and the wakizashis are good for you anyway. Second, it's not just flurry, it's that many of the bonuses are better the more you commit to them (increasing fist damage). Dipping 3/4 Bab rests in wasted Bab as well. Also, many things key off of Wisdom, and we don't want to add that to the list of attributes we need.

That being said, if somebody presents a compelling argument I'm more than happy to consider it.

I meant to address improved TW feinting with TW feinting. It's not a bad option, but by the time you can grab improved you may as well wait for invisible blade and use that. Certainly viable if that is your style, and it can give you sneak attack more often. It's rated three stars, green, which means you should definitely consider it.


Funny thing about Improved Two Weapon Feint, it doesn't require Two Weapon Feint as a prerequiste to function.

Little error in the game, sure, but it may be something worth noting in the guide and and making mention it will likely get errata at some point.


Vanishing Trick: I use this all the time to avoids AoOs. I also use it to set up Sneak Attack.

High Jumper: Imagine jumping over 200 feet up. Here's how: Aerial assault - awesome concept, potentially impractical?

Dispelling Attack: You say "If you didn't need Major and Minor Magic, this would be a must have.", yet still give it 4 stars. Should that not be 3?

Feather Step Boots: Never worry about difficult terrain when trying to maneuver into flanking. Keep your speed when you easily cross a spot of Grease or rubble. Someone following you? Go across some difficult terrain and loose them. I think these are a must.

Spellcasters: You mention Oracle revelations offset by their curse. Sorcerers have bloodline abilities and no curse. Witch has a number of good spells, including CLW; a hex; and a familiar. Also remember, activating scrolls in class is much easier than via UMD.

/cevah


Broken Zenith wrote:

Tengu Bite/claw/claw ninja is in: Blackbeak. Let me know if there is anything I seriously messed up.

He handily outshines the classic ninja in the earlier levels, though the difference decreases over time. At level 12ish the classic ninja begins outshining the Tengu, but who really plays that long anyway? An extremely good choice if you don't mind being a Tengu, Tiefling, or similar, and I've marked it as such in the guide.

Thanks for including this as a build option. My Tengu natural attacking ninja has actually gone with a combination of natural attacks/scout/sap mastery foci for PFS play. I've purchased a merciful amulet which is a cheap way of getting the sap mastery to work on any of my natural attacks. At 5th level, if I can catch someone flatfooted, I do 1d3 + 7d6 + 24 points of damage with one of my attacks.


Since when can Ninja take Rogue archetypes? I thought they couldn't take Rogue archetypes because Ninja is, essentially, an archetype itself.

Silver Crusade

Tels wrote:
Since when can Ninja take Rogue archetypes? I thought they couldn't take Rogue archetypes because Ninja is, essentially, an archetype itself.

You can take multiple archetypes, so as long as they have access to the class abilities to give up, it's fine. There are only 3 or 4 archetypes ninjas can take: sanctified rogue, scout, and a couple others.


Bigdaddyjug wrote:
Tels wrote:
Since when can Ninja take Rogue archetypes? I thought they couldn't take Rogue archetypes because Ninja is, essentially, an archetype itself.
You can take multiple archetypes, so as long as they have access to the class abilities to give up, it's fine. There are only 3 or 4 archetypes ninjas can take: sanctified rogue, scout, and a couple others.

So Ninja Scout works? Huh, odd how the two most powerful Rogue archetypes stack...

Silver Crusade

Tels wrote:
Bigdaddyjug wrote:
Tels wrote:
Since when can Ninja take Rogue archetypes? I thought they couldn't take Rogue archetypes because Ninja is, essentially, an archetype itself.
You can take multiple archetypes, so as long as they have access to the class abilities to give up, it's fine. There are only 3 or 4 archetypes ninjas can take: sanctified rogue, scout, and a couple others.
So Ninja Scout works? Huh, odd how the two most powerful Rogue archetypes stack...

Yeah, Scout, Bandit, Burglar, Sanctified Rogue, and Trapsmith stack with ninja. Although you can only take 1 because they all give up Uncanny Dodge and/or Imp Uncanny Dodge.

Lantern Lodge

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Kitsune with their stats are a good choice i would say.
Add in realistic likeness and fox form feats and it becomes really formidable!

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