The reason being is that, again, companies don't talk about pending updates until an update is already done. This is a foundational policy of most companies that issue updates. I would strongly suspect that the updates you mentioned, were already near completion or done and just waiting to roll out. Of course, there is no proof as to whether they were completed or not before they announced they were working on them.
We also have a Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle that affects us but not the example companies, by which I mean we would change the outcome by measuring/announcing it. All the companies mentioned so far are producing a digital product; once they have the patch, everyone can just download it. For us, we need to sell out of a print run to make the next errataed run, so if we issued an estimated date based on current sales and that changed the sales (my guess is it would lower them), then it would sort of be a self-unfulfilling prophecy.
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Which should be alleviated as the customers make the transition towards full digital.
Mark, would the ACG errata address the shield champion's current proficiency issues with them currently not being proficient with shields as weapons (whereas the default brawler is)?
I assume it will, it's one of Those Things, Proto.
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Especially since Paizo was apparently over-worked at the time with Sean's departure, but Jason still had enough time to launch products for Minotaur Games. Unless he decided he simply didn't need sleep and worked round the clock on Paizo and Minotaur products.
Minotaur is Jason's own brand. He works on it on his own time. He's salaried: he doesn't get overtime. Paizo doesn't own his nights and weekends.
Or is your position that if Paizo wants to give him 120 hours a week of work that he's not allowed to do anything for himself?
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Especially since Paizo was apparently over-worked at the time with Sean's departure, but Jason still had enough time to launch products for Minotaur Games. Unless he decided he simply didn't need sleep and worked round the clock on Paizo and Minotaur products.Minotaur is Jason's own brand. He works on it on his own time. He's salaried: he doesn't get overtime. Paizo doesn't own his nights and weekends.
Or is your position that if Paizo wants to give him 120 hours a week of work that he's not allowed to do anything for himself?
That and he should post his holiday plans at least 6 months ahead so that True Forum Fans know where his absence from messageboards is justified and warranted.
And honestly, designers should be allowed to ignore the forum only on state and religious holidays. I mean, how hard it is to answer rule questions while climbing or snorkeling? In the global digital age, there's no excuse for such leeway.
Paizo
>book is released on PDF just before Gencon
>On the first day people find some really bad errors all over the book
>Jason, can we get some clarification on XYZ game breaking issues with the feats and archetypes?
>Yeah, after Gencon we'll talk about it.
>Jason doesn't visit the forum for two months following Gencon why placing a seeming Gag order on everyone below him in the company.
>A lot of people frothing at the mouth over this.
>Lisa Stevens and Erik Mona answer a lot of questions and complaints in an obscure thread.
>Suddenly gag order lifted and Mark Seifter announces that he's already mostly completed the errata, but wasn't allowed to talk about it.
The only two people I know who defend this. One of them being a Paizo employee of sorts.
Honestly they should just hire a community manager to deal with situations like this instead of having one of the developers 'wasting' time to respond to community concerns.
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The only two people I know who defend this. One of them being a Paizo employee of sorts.
Honestly they should just hire a community manager to deal with situations like this instead of having one of the developers 'wasting' time to respond to community concerns.
I came from this community, so I never consider community outreach a waste of time, at least from this designer. You guys are our eyes and ears, and you provide a valuable perspective. As far as I know, beyond the obvious like spoilers about new books, pending reprints are the only thing we're not supposed to talk about before they happen (for the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle reasons I mentioned above), so I'm always happy to talk anything else.
While sales were high for ACG (clearly since we have a reprint happening so soon), that's not good enough for me; I want us to make books that you guys are proud to own and have on your shelves and on which I'm nothing but proud to have my name, and that means taking care of as many issues as possible as soon as we can.
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Honestly they should just hire a community manager to deal with situations like this instead of having one of the developers 'wasting' time to respond to community concerns.
I agree, that would help handle situations like this.
Honestly they should just hire a community manager to deal with situations like this instead of having one of the developers 'wasting' time to respond to community concerns.
We hear you that there should be more involvement on this front. However, traditionally issues concerning RPG products fall within the realm of our Design Team/executive team to address, as even a Community Manager isn't going to interact with the intimate details of released product on a day-to-day basis. If we were to have someone full time in this role, there are areas we can improve, but I'm not sure that another person would have necessarily solved an issue like this one. I would suggest rather than derailing this thread with that kind of feedback, that you email us at the community@paizo.com inbox, or post in Website Feedback.
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DERebecca from Digital Extremes, Community Manager of the Warframe forums.
Basically her job is to go on the forums, find out common topics, format summarized versions of those topics onto a sheet of paper, then give the paper to a dev team member and get some sort of response for the community. Stuff as simple as "This is a complicated issue and we're working on it" have gone over very well on that forum.
If we had someone do this and then had a dev team member give simple 1-2 word responses like
-noted
-in progress
-low priority
-high priority
That might be pretty cool. At least compared to 2 months of radio silence on a severely misunderstood product.
Especially since Paizo was apparently over-worked at the time with Sean's departure, but Jason still had enough time to launch products for Minotaur Games. Unless he decided he simply didn't need sleep and worked round the clock on Paizo and Minotaur products.Minotaur is Jason's own brand. He works on it on his own time. He's salaried: he doesn't get overtime. Paizo doesn't own his nights and weekends.
Or is your position that if Paizo wants to give him 120 hours a week of work that he's not allowed to do anything for himself?
Of course not, it was purely an emotional response of feeling a little annoyed/peeved. At the time, there was a book that came out with loads of errors in it that made some things unuseable and others down-right broken. During this time, Paizo was seemingly over-worked due to the departure of SKR, so there was little-to-no response on what was going on.
Meanwhile, while Paizo was being over-worked (apparently), and they had just released their "worst" product, in terms of grammar, editing and mechanical issues, Jason was releasing his own products for his own company.
Logically, I knew this was Jason doing is own thing in his own time for fun and stuff, but, irrationally, I felt annoyed that during this time frame the design team seemed to have a gag order on them and Jason had left the forums for 2 months.
I knew he was probably working his horns off at Paizo, and doing his Minotaur products in his spare time, but since when do emotions ever listen to logic?
It's to keep the rate of physical sales from dipping.
Let's use the ACG as an example
Scenario 1
Wow, ACG came out a while ago and I don't have it yet. I'm gonna go buy it! What do the reviews and announcements say? Oh a reprinting is coming soon? Better wait.
Scenario 2
Wow, ACG came out a while ago and I don't have it yet. I'm gonna go buy it! What do the reviews and announcements say? Oh it's got issues, but I guess I'll buy one anyway since it took a really long time for Paizo to reprint x book.
One of these scenarios would slow sales more than the other and further delay the 2nd printing, that's why they are so cloak and dagger about reprints and likely why we get gag orders on much needed errata.
Remember, Paizo is a business first and foremost.
Yes, that is exactly what logic dictates in the ACG situation. The only reason I can see for anyone to purchase the ACG this late in the game is because of Paizo love, ignorance of its problems, or wanting to own a first printing.
I've seen someone who generally purxhases first editions refuse to buy because of the cover error.
If you buy the hardcover from Paizo, don't you get the PDF for free?
Only if you subscribe.
Not in respone to Tels question:
And since it hsas come up before - no, subscribing does not give you free pdf-copies of all books previously published in that line. Because that would be stupid.
One thing to mention though: once they reprint a book with errata, they also give all people access to an errata-pdf detailing the changes between print runs. For free.
Here.
Could please we get back to the ACG's potential errors, and not spend 20+ posts discussing re-print and errata strategies?
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GUYS!!! It's like Christmas. The Pathfinder Design Team is going and answering some of the questions. This is awesome!
Since we met and discussed these already, the rest of the team agreed that it would be OK if I gave spoilers for some of the most asked.
It is quite nice :)
Question
At 1st level, the spell warrior can grant a +1 enhancement bonus to the weapons (including ammunition) of allies within 60 feet. At 5th level and every 5 levels thereafter, this enhancement bonus increases by 1. The maximum bonus gained is based upon the number of weapons affected: +5 to one weapon, +4 to two weapons, +3 to three weapons, or +2 to four or more weapons. Fifty pieces of ammunition count as one weapon for this purpose
Am I reading this correctly?
I am a Level 5 Spell warrior with one weapon being affected, my own, so it has a +2 enhancement.
I am a level 5 SW with 2 weapons being affected, they both get +2 enh.
I am a level 5 SW with 4 weapons being affected, they all get +2 enh.
I am a level 20 SW with 1 weapon being affected, it gets +5 enh.
Level 20, 2 weapons, each gets +4.
Level 20, 4 weapons, each gets +2.
So this song stops progressing in a party with 4 weapon users past level 5? This seems particularly odd to me actually.
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Since we met and discussed these already, the rest of the team agreed that it would be OK if I gave spoilers for some of the most asked.
1.) Does the Sacred Fist Warpriest Archetype retain it's Monk-like abilities when wearing Armor? Specifically the Flurry of Blows ability?
Flurry of Blows (Ex): At 1st level, a sacred fist can make a flurry of blows attack as a full-attack action. This ability works like the monk ability of the same name. This ability replaces sacred weapon.
2.) What does the Ecclesitheurge Cleric Archetype's "Blessing of the Faithful" ability do?
Ecclesitheurge’s Vow: At 1st level, an ecclesitheurge makes a vow to his deity to be protected solely by his faith, not by armor or shields. An ecclesitheurge who wears prohibited armor or uses a prohibited shield is unable to use his blessing of the faithful ability, use cleric domain powers, or cast cleric spells.
3.) Can the Shield Champion Brawler Archetype use Shields as weapons proficiently?
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A shield champion is proficient with all simple weapons. She is also proficient with light armor, and with bucklers, light shields, and heavy shields. This replaces the brawler’s weapon and armor proficiencies.
4.) What does the Feat Undersize Mount actually do? There is no rule in Pathfinder requiring a mount to be one or more size categories larger than the rider, and the Feat does not increase the mount's carrying capacity nor does it allow for classes that get a special Mount to choose a different option, so it seems to do nothing at all.
You’ve learned techniques that allow you to ride beasts of smaller sizes than normal.
Prerequisite: Ride 1 rank.
Benefit: You can ride creatures of your size category, although encumbrance or other factors might limit how you can use this ability.
Normal:Typically a mount suited for you is at least one size category larger than you.
1.) Does the Sacred Fist Warpriest Archetype retain it's Monk-like abilities when wearing Armor? Specifically the Flurry of Blows ability?2.) What does the Ecclesitheurge Cleric Archetype's "Blessing of the Faithful" ability do?
3.) Can the Shield Champion Brawler Archetype use Shields as weapons proficiently?
4.) What does the Feat Undersize Mount actually do? There is no rule in Pathfinder requiring a mount to be one or more size categories larger than the rider, and the Feat does not increase the mount's carrying capacity nor does it allow for classes that get a special Mount to choose a different option, so it seems to do nothing at all.
All previously-mentioned questions, including these, were considered for the errata. The three PDT posts that happened already are the ones we're posting about today.
Is my question a post up on the errata sheet or does this song really stop scaling past level 5?
Is my question a post up on the errata sheet or does this song really stop scaling past level 5?
It's an odd song to be sure, and it's not how I would have worded it (I'd have either given some amount of total bonuses to distribute that scales, with a cap for any one character that also scales, or I would have had the maximum bonus go down when you spread it to more weapons, with a minimum of +1), but honestly the as-written ability is likely to be more powerful at any given level than either of those options, if admittedly scaling less satisfyingly than either of them, and your options to try different combinations on fewer weapons do at least increase with level.
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All previously-mentioned questions, including these, were considered for the errata. The three PDT posts that happened already are the ones we're posting about today.
1.) Does the Sacred Fist Warpriest Archetype retain it's Monk-like abilities when wearing Armor? Specifically the Flurry of Blows ability?2.) What does the Ecclesitheurge Cleric Archetype's "Blessing of the Faithful" ability do?
3.) Can the Shield Champion Brawler Archetype use Shields as weapons proficiently?
4.) What does the Feat Undersize Mount actually do? There is no rule in Pathfinder requiring a mount to be one or more size categories larger than the rider, and the Feat does not increase the mount's carrying capacity nor does it allow for classes that get a special Mount to choose a different option, so it seems to do nothing at all.
Ah, I took that as an invitation and didn't realize that some had been hinted at. Please keep it up.
It's possible we'll be back with more for next week's pseudo FAQ Friday, but on the other hand, none of the other questions have very many FAQ requests comparatively, so we might try to start a silo of 2015 FAQs instead. Of course, part of the trouble is that the ones that are most FAQed tend to be ones with wording clarifications, since people wouldn't be asking questions like "Does the feral hunter gain additional benefits to trade out for the two class features it can't use right now?" even if the errata add new benefits, so many of the top FAQs seem to tend to be more negative.
That's kind of sad for me then, generally we game with 4-5 people groups and generally 3-4 of them wield weapons, so the signature song of that archetype would essentially stop scaling at level 5.
At level 20 giving 4 people +2 weapon enhancements isn't all that impressive.
That's kind of sad for me then, generally we game with 4-5 people groups and generally 3-4 of them wield weapons, so the signature song of that archetype would essentially stop scaling at level 5.
At level 20 giving 4 people +2 weapon enhancements isn't all that impressive.
Yeah, although given the FAQ about temporary buffs still being capped at a +10 equivalent weapon, this song isn't very effective at 20th anyway. Getting keen and an elemental 1d6 of your choice that the enemy doesn't resist at 5th level, which can apply to an unlimited number of allies, is incredibly powerful, though, particularly for a group with so many weapons in it.
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Has the Bolt Ace 'do they swap Gun Proficiency for Crossbows and Gunsmithing for something?' questions been answered? Since I'm playing one...
Mark, thank you and the PDT for releasing some spoilers for several of the most difficult questions! Very much looking forward to the eratta.
Hey Mark, going along with the warpriest train of thought, does the bonus combat feat granted by a human warpriest's favored class bonus get the same benefit of using their full BAB to qualify for it?
not sure if mentioned elsewhere in the thread, but (as of my copy of the pdf):
the warpriest class gains the channel energy ability, but makes absolutely no mention of it's base amount or any advancement. no mention of counting as a cleric for it, nothing listed in the class chart, nothing. as it stands, they appear to have a channel energy ability that they can't actually use.
and:
[...] A good warpriest (or one who worships a good deity)
channels positive energy and can choose to heal living
creatures or to deal damage to undead creatures. An evil
cleric (or one who worships an evil deity) channels negative
energy and can choose to deal damage to living creatures
or heal undead creatures. A neutral cleric who worships a
neutral deity (or one who is not devoted to a particular deity)
channels positive energy if he chose to spontaneously cast
cure spells or negative energy if he chose to spontaneously
cast inflict spells. [...]
emphasis mine: 'cleric' should be replaced with 'warpriest'
not sure if mentioned elsewhere in the thread, but (as of my copy of the pdf):
the warpriest class gains the channel energy ability, but makes absolutely no mention of it's base amount or any advancement. no mention of counting as a cleric for it, nothing listed in the class chart, nothing. as it stands, they appear to have a channel energy ability that they can't actually use.
and:
emphasis mine: 'cleric' should be replaced with 'warpriest'[...] A good warpriest (or one who worships a good deity)
channels positive energy and can choose to heal living
creatures or to deal damage to undead creatures. An evil
cleric (or one who worships an evil deity) channels negative
energy and can choose to deal damage to living creatures
or heal undead creatures. A neutral cleric who worships a
neutral deity (or one who is not devoted to a particular deity)
channels positive energy if he chose to spontaneously cast
cure spells or negative energy if he chose to spontaneously
cast inflict spells. [...]
It helps to read the entire ability.
Starting at 4th level, a warpriest can release a wave of energy by channeling the power of his faith through his holy (or unholy) symbol. This energy can be used to deal or heal damage, depending on the type of energy channeled and the creatures targeted. Using this ability is a standard action that expends two uses of his fervor ability and doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity. The warpriest must present a holy (or unholy) symbol to use this ability. A good warpriest (or one who worships a good deity) channels positive energy and can choose to heal living creatures or to deal damage to undead creatures. An evil cleric (or one who worships an evil deity) channels negative energy and can choose to deal damage to living creatures or heal undead creatures. A neutral cleric who worships a neutral deity (or one who is not devoted to a particular deity) channels positive energy if he chose to spontaneously cast cure spells or negative energy if he chose to spontaneously cast inflict spells.
Channeling energy causes a burst that affects all creatures of one type (either undead or living) in a 30-foot radius centered on the warpriest. The amount of damage dealt or healed is equal to the amount listed in the fervor ability. Creatures that take damage from channeled energy must succeed at a Will saving throw to halve the damage. The save DC is 10 + 1/2 the warpriest's level + the warpriest's Wisdom modifier. Creatures healed by channeled energy cannot exceed their maximum hit point total—all excess healing is lost. A warpriest can choose whether or not to include himself in this effect.
That's kind of sad for me then, generally we game with 4-5 people groups and generally 3-4 of them wield weapons, so the signature song of that archetype would essentially stop scaling at level 5.
At level 20 giving 4 people +2 weapon enhancements isn't all that impressive.
you have to remember though, that with the new faq, you are actually giving rage powers to people without the rage restrictions.
so yeah, the base song isn't scaling, but you still scale with giving them 1 rage power/3 levels, and people like magus, warpriest, inquisitor, alchemists, and the whole list of gishes now can gain rage powers.
so yeah, at 20lvl, you are giving +2 to their weapon and 6 rage powers, while at 5lvl you are giving +2 to their weapons and 1 rage power.
Good point.
So, while the archetype is not as strong as base Skald it does have a use. While working with Magus, Warpriests, ect it would prove useful.
Though I don't see how it would affect Inquisitors and Alchemists since they could just drop rage with no penalties on turns they plan to cast.
@tels: ah, now i feel like an idiot. thanks for clearing that up though, i was seriously worried.
I found a couple spells on the Shaman list that Shaman can't actually use or can't unless you are specific race. Imbue with Elemental Might allow you give another person the Sulis elemental Assault but unless you are Sulis you don't have that to give. Now this could be change to give the Sulis Elemental Assault or give one of the Shaman Elemental attacks they via the spirit class feature.
Then there Hex Glyph (greater) which allows you to put Glyph with Major Hex but Shaman's don't get Major hexes. It can be used to with regular hex but why would you bother with a 5th level spell when you can do that with 3rd level spell.
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I found a couple spells on the Shaman list that Shaman can't actually use or can't unless you are specific race. Imbue with Elemental Might allow you give another person the Sulis elemental Assault but unless you are Sulis you don't have that to give. Now this could be change to give the Sulis Elemental Assault or give one of the Shaman Elemental attacks they via the spirit class feature.
That's not an error. Paizo released a number of spells in the Advanced Rage Guide and the "[Race] of Golarion" supplements which are intended to be used only if the caster is of the appropriate race. While some are mostly flavourful (eg Goblins get "Fire Sneeze") others mechanically require a particular racial feature. Imbue With Elemental Might is one of the latter. It's on the Shaman list so that Suli Shamans can cast it. Shamans of other races are expected to select other spells.
That makes sense for that one. Didn't think of it like that. Easier to add to the spell list I guess than retro the ARG.
The other seems to be under the expectation that the class could get major hexes maybe. I guess maybe major hexes were part of the plan then scraped.
I wonder if we're getting a FAQ Friday or more ACG Errata teasers!
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ru3g?Intimidate-Fear-or-Morale-effect#46
Looks like a FAQ Friday unless they wanna throw us a bone with some extra errata.
People seemed mad about ACG errata previews, which I hadn't expected. I think that instead of picking trios with themes, we will likely avoid them unless they are also high FAQ priorities (today's CRB FAQ, for instance, was extremely high ranking in the FAQ queue).