TOZ |
Saldiven wrote:I'd also be perfectly content to make a gentleman's agreement that neither side would do so.So much of the unbalanced, rickety structure of the game demands gentlemen's agreements that I suppose adding one more is no big deal for some tables. For me, and a lot of the people I've gamed with in the last 10-15 years, that's getting to be really old -- the list of things you can't do "because, well, that's just not done" is getting to be as long as the rulebook itself. At some point you start looking for good house rules that will close more than one loophole at once, if only to make your own life easier. We were hoping Pathfinder would do that with 3.5. But it didn't, so we started writing our own.
So instead of a list of agreements as long as the rulebook, you decided to write house rules as long as the rulebook. :)
alexd1976 |
alexd1976 wrote:Tels wrote:alexd1976 wrote:Eh... no. The BBEG has to fail at dispelling the Explosive Runes If he succeeds, nothing happens. BBEGs have this nasty habit of having higher caster levels than the PCs so they often pass caster level checks more so than PCs do.Pretty much all of my higher level encounters START with the BBEG using greater dispel... so if he wins initiative, he sets off the suitcase nuke before it is deployed, instantly vaporizing the person carrying it.
If they win initiative, they use it and kill him.
As always, initiative wins.
I don't really see any problem here, tbh, though this tactic is clearly soaked in melted cheese, and is boring...
I mean, by the time you can do it, so can your enemy. Why the heck would THEY not use it all the time? I mean, seriously!
I've never seen this attempted, not once. I've only seen it on here.
I don't make my NPCs overpowered, I make them appropriate to the point in the campaign the players are at. If they have specialized at making their spells hard to dispel (and they always do), the NPCs often fail.
My favorite/really ONLY threat to the parties in my games: hordes.
Hordes of whatever monster catches my fancy.
Hundreds of trolls, thousands of orcs.
If they can one-shot anything, just throw more at them.
Gives the fighters something to do, especially when the casters run out of spells.
:D
BBEG = Big Bad Evil Guy/Gal and usually means "Boss". Most "Boss" characters are usually of higher level. Even if it's just 2 or 3 levels higher, that's still a higher chance to dispel the PCs spells than the PCs have of dispelling the BBEG's spells. I'm not saying the BBEG's Wizard advisor or lackey might not be of their level, or lower and could fail that dispel check, but the BBEG itself usually succeeds on those.
Especially since most of the 'Suitcase-o-fun' is usually created over multiple levels as the caster has time/slots to prepare the sheets. This means,...
Are... are you actually arguing that my NPCs in my game are built to succeed at dispelling?
Have you been spying on me?
I am categorically disagreeing with you, based on MY GAME.
My NPC casters are often equal or slightly higher than the party, but RARELY do they exceed 2 levels higher.
So when PCs go to great lengths to make their spells hard to dispel (as my players often do), failing to dispel happens more often than not.
This isn't subject to debate. It is a statement of fact from the games I have run.
Sheesh.
Also, I make them scary BBEG by pretty much ALWAYS having them take Leadership, and abusing the crap out of it, just like the PCs do.
Bandw2 |
Bandw2 wrote:your bosses sound boringWhen summed up with a couple lines of text, anything can sound boring.
When encountered in game, in context, with years of actual play time and relevance, far more interesting. :D
but i mean a BBEG that can't even dispell? how is he supposed to ruin half the parties gear?[/joke]
alexd1976 |
alexd1976 wrote:but i mean a BBEG that can't even dispell? how is he supposed to ruin half the parties gear?[/joke]Bandw2 wrote:your bosses sound boringWhen summed up with a couple lines of text, anything can sound boring.
When encountered in game, in context, with years of actual play time and relevance, far more interesting. :D
Mage's Disjunction. :D
The majority of our games to date have run all the way to level 20 (and beyond). Low level play is for newbs.
Bandw2 |
Bandw2 wrote:alexd1976 wrote:but i mean a BBEG that can't even dispell? how is he supposed to ruin half the parties gear?[/joke]Bandw2 wrote:your bosses sound boringWhen summed up with a couple lines of text, anything can sound boring.
When encountered in game, in context, with years of actual play time and relevance, far more interesting. :D
Mage's Disjunction. :D
The majority of our games to date have run all the way to level 20 (and beyond). Low level play is for newbs.
that's a bit higher (spell)level for my taste.
alexd1976 |
alexd1976 wrote:that's a bit higher (spell)level for my taste.Bandw2 wrote:alexd1976 wrote:but i mean a BBEG that can't even dispell? how is he supposed to ruin half the parties gear?[/joke]Bandw2 wrote:your bosses sound boringWhen summed up with a couple lines of text, anything can sound boring.
When encountered in game, in context, with years of actual play time and relevance, far more interesting. :D
Mage's Disjunction. :D
The majority of our games to date have run all the way to level 20 (and beyond). Low level play is for newbs.
Who's boring now? ;)
Bandw2 |
Bandw2 wrote:Who's boring now? ;)alexd1976 wrote:that's a bit higher (spell)level for my taste.Bandw2 wrote:alexd1976 wrote:but i mean a BBEG that can't even dispell? how is he supposed to ruin half the parties gear?[/joke]Bandw2 wrote:your bosses sound boringWhen summed up with a couple lines of text, anything can sound boring.
When encountered in game, in context, with years of actual play time and relevance, far more interesting. :D
Mage's Disjunction. :D
The majority of our games to date have run all the way to level 20 (and beyond). Low level play is for newbs.
the mage casting mage's disjunction.
alexd1976 |
alexd1976 wrote:the mage casting mage's disjunction.Bandw2 wrote:Who's boring now? ;)alexd1976 wrote:that's a bit higher (spell)level for my taste.Bandw2 wrote:alexd1976 wrote:but i mean a BBEG that can't even dispell? how is he supposed to ruin half the parties gear?[/joke]Bandw2 wrote:your bosses sound boringWhen summed up with a couple lines of text, anything can sound boring.
When encountered in game, in context, with years of actual play time and relevance, far more interesting. :D
Mage's Disjunction. :D
The majority of our games to date have run all the way to level 20 (and beyond). Low level play is for newbs.
He should perhaps lead with a Light spell, then?
Back to original topic, this misuse of a spell clearly not intended to be used this way is very interesting.
If it really does take days/weeks to build up the requisite number of castings, is there truly an issue? Sure it allows for an alpha strike, but what if they 'blow it' on an illusion/disguised duplicate/doppleganger or whatever?
Lot's of in-game ways to deal with it.
The funniest would be having low level spellcasters with readied actions to dispel...
On a related note, I recall there being some spells in 3.5 that offered protection from force effects, is there nothing in Pathfinder that does the same?
Snowblind |
TOZ wrote:So instead of a list of agreements as long as the rulebook, you decided to write house rules as long as the rulebook. :)Exactly! 1R + 1R = 2R. 0R + 1R = 1R. My solution is half as many pages!
Unfortunately, you still have to refer to the rules to understand the house rules that patch over them. It is still 1R + 1R = 2R. By that stage, you might as well integrate the rules set and the patch, change the name slightly, and call it a new system.
Wait a minute.