Explosive Runes is overpowered


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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boring7 wrote:

Since we have a lotta folks talking about this spell, maybe y'all can help me out: See, I still don't understand Explosive Runes.

I mean, with sharp eyes I can read from pretty far away, especially if the runes are big. And what if I'm illiterate? Can I score a picture of a pair of t#~~ on a coin so even the illiterate barbarian recognizes what it is (not to mention picks it up, because gold) and goes off? Do the runes have to be words and do they have to be in a language?

An adult (let's say black) dragon has a +24 perception, he should be able to read pretty small writing from outside the blast radius, no?

I mean I like 'em. If I had a party that was psychologically capable of running from stuff I'd probably have about 50 in a bag like caltrops to cover any hasty retreats. But I don't even know how they WORK as anything but an FU to the guy who chooses to open books. Quite frankly that insults my sensibilities as a modern American surrounded by far too much "culture of the dumb" and glorification of proud ignorance. I get enough of that in reality, I don't want it in my fantasy thank you very much.

As for erase/dispel tricks, well, good farkin' luck. Erase has to be touched, so you're casting it one at a time, and area dispels have already been listed as to their problems. If you're dropping Time Stops and scattering rune bits and summoning other critters which have to make (and fail) a dispel check you're hoping a WHOLE lotta things go right. One properly-placed illusion or the Big Bad managing to read from a distance and you end up losing or getting hoisted by your own explosive petard.

That's LONG before we get into the minutiae of playing mutually-assured destruction games or escalating power-creep builds.

And yes, the terror-bombing is dark genius. Definitely the right kind of "complete monster" evil for a dark campaign.

Uh the enemy about to blown to kingdom come never gets a chance to read them. Since they can't while their time stopped and the summon has a readied action to dispel, the target never gets much of a chance to do anything except die.


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CommandoDude wrote:
Explosive Runes are proof that Goblins are properly paranoid about reading.

Well we're the superior race for many reasons. But magic writing that blows up AND steals the words out of your head is to be avoided at all costs.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Dotting this thread for awesome explosive runes terror bombing idea.

--

Also, bit of real world experience: When I was a newbie 3.5 player I discovered Explosive Runes and had lots of fun with it (use mage hand to hold a slip of paper out in front of a kobold's face. Summon 1d4+1 celestial eagles (in 3.5, they can read) and order them to do dive-bomb attacks, etc.).

I also crafted a nuke. Just in case. And, ultimately, when we hit a fight that should have been a tpk, that nuke saved all our lives. It was awesome.

And immediately after that session I got an e-mail from my DM regarding nerfing explosive runes. Which was all cool - I'd had my time in the spotlight, it was time to move on to other players and other spells.

So my experience tells me that the people saying "in a real game, this would never happen" are probably right.


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Anzyr wrote:
Uh the enemy about to blown to kingdom come never gets a chance to read them. Since they can't while their time...

Unless you made a mistake and didn't keep it under cover before dumping the pile on him, or some other brand of mistake/misstep/accident that gets you boomed. I mean, do objects drop out of the bag you upend it under a time stop? Moreover you ARE using TIME STOP, 9th level spells are kind of a big deal.

I'm just sayin', I wouldn't call it my "perfect, unstoppable plan," I'd call it my "really good plan."

But I'm still curious about whether reading from a distance is possible, and whether you can make it work on someone illiterate. I had a DM tagging party members with Sepia Snake Sigils cast on the outside of a building, despite us standing 20 or 30 feet away. Worse still I'm pretty sure it was a published adventure that was pulling that crap on us, for no real discernible reason since there wasn't anyone around to take advantage of half the party being asleep (or whatever it was, this was back in 3.5 and a third-party publisher).


Oh I wouldn't call it perfect or unstoppable, just very good. I mean it's pretty basic, it's not anything get impressed by, people have known about it forever.


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boring7 wrote:

I had a DM tagging party members with Sepia Snake Sigils cast on the outside of a building, despite us standing 20 or 30 feet away. Worse still I'm pretty sure it was a published adventure that was pulling that crap on us, for no real discernible reason since there wasn't anyone around to take advantage of half the party being asleep (or whatever it was, this was back in 3.5 and a third-party publisher).

On the outside of a building? Was this a building in town? If so it sounds just a little bit antisocial. And rather pointless, since random strangers would be setting them off.


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Anzyr wrote:


I see nothing in the spell that suggests it is purely to defend things. In fact there's lots of way to use offensively, including have summoned monsters read them directly in front of your target. Magic is *supposed* be used creatively... that's the whole point of a TTRPG vs. a video game.

It specifically refers to itself as a magic trap. Traps are not things you throw across the battlefield.

There is a difference between using something creatively and ignoring limitations of spells based on semantics to get undercosted damage varieties from lower level spells.

That's not problem solving and it borders of simply being dishonest to the spirit of the game.


It says "explodes when read". I see nothing that says you are forced to read them, nor anything asking for a will save to avoid reading them ... So in my mind I would tend to say that you need to state "I try to read the book". Or "I try to read the letter". You can have text flashed in front of your face without actually concentrating on and trying to read it. So, for example, placing a "runed" piece of paper in a pile of important missives on someone's desk, where they will try to read it? Kosher. Putting it on the front of a zombie's shirt? Not so much.


Nathanael Love wrote:
Anzyr wrote:


I see nothing in the spell that suggests it is purely to defend things. In fact there's lots of way to use offensively, including have summoned monsters read them directly in front of your target. Magic is *supposed* be used creatively... that's the whole point of a TTRPG vs. a video game.

It specifically refers to itself as a magic trap. Traps are not things you throw across the battlefield.

There is a difference between using something creatively and ignoring limitations of spells based on semantics to get undercosted damage varieties from lower level spells.

That's not problem solving and it borders of simply being dishonest to the spirit of the game.

So the Trapper Ranger does not exist? Or are his traps just not meant for combat? Genuinely curious.


JoeJ wrote:
boring7 wrote:

I had a DM tagging party members with Sepia Snake Sigils cast on the outside of a building, despite us standing 20 or 30 feet away. Worse still I'm pretty sure it was a published adventure that was pulling that crap on us, for no real discernible reason since there wasn't anyone around to take advantage of half the party being asleep (or whatever it was, this was back in 3.5 and a third-party publisher).

On the outside of a building? Was this a building in town? If so it sounds just a little bit antisocial. And rather pointless, since random strangers would be setting them off.

Gangs where their tags are literally designed to make it impossible for outsiders to get into their turf. Wizards only, fools.

I am really, really getting enamored by the sheer societal problems these things cause when you take them out of the dungeon and put them into the city.


Cast Explosive Runes several times on a piece of paper.

Cast Spectral Hand.

Use Wand of Erase with CL 1 to attempt to dispel Explosive Runes. Roll 1d20+1 vs DC 15. If you fail, they all detonate.

Funny story, before I quit playing Kingmaker because my GM was being an ass, I actually had a Wizard who used similar tactics because the GM sometimes said, "F~$~ it" and threw us up against TPK scenarios. We survived because I, on more than one occasion, had to intentionally read my own stack of Explosive Runes and nearly died all 4 times it happened.

My Wizard also had a well documented history of keeping several dozen sheets of Explosive Runes hidden back at the castle. I told the GM if I ever turned evil and became a villain in this campaign, the last thing I do before I fly off to a new lair or something, is fly over the town and drop all of the leaflets.

Explosive Runes = Wizard Cluster Bomb.

I really don't have much of a problem with someone doing this in my game. In fact, I'd even let the PC who does this 'invent' the technique in world. Then, later on, have it thrown against them.

Can you picture, for example, a Wizard equipping Goblins with Tower Shields that have Explosive Runes cast on the side facing the enemy? Say... 10 of them or so? Maybe 50? How about 100?

Anyway, so the Party runs in, and the Goblins charge with their Rune Shields. The party moves up and I say, "Perception check" and they notice that there is something on the shiel*BOOOM*

Kamikaze Goblins.


A perception check would be to notice what's on the shield. Active declaration to actually read it.


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Basically...if this sort of exploit worked, it would forever change the fantasy setting. nations would just stockpile Exploding ruins and deploy them as weapons of mass destruction. Castles would be rendered irrelevant, and open warfare would probably give way to terrorist tactics.

I mean if people have problems with guns/gunpowder in a campaign, this would be way way way worse. You are effectively introducing briefcase nukes into the setting

That would be a cool idea for a magitech campaign, or as backstory for the fall of civilization and a campaign held in it's ruins. But probably a really really bad idea for a lot of other campaigns.


MMCJawa wrote:

Basically...if this sort of exploit worked, it would forever change the fantasy setting. nations would just stockpile Exploding ruins and deploy them as weapons of mass destruction. Castles would be rendered irrelevant, and open warfare would probably give way to terrorist tactics.

I mean if people have problems with guns/gunpowder in a campaign, this would be way way way worse. You are effectively introducing briefcase nukes into the setting

That would be a cool idea for a magitech campaign, or as backstory for the fall of civilization and a campaign held in it's ruins. But probably a really really bad idea for a lot of other campaigns.

I have an idea for a ShadowPocalypse game where Explosive Runes is one of the primary counter attacks :P


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

In response to MMCJawa -

Actually, fly, invisible, and teleport made castles irrelevant already. Explosive ruins just opens up a can of worms if you let it out of hand (like any other high level or abusive spell).

Sometimes players just have to roll with things to help keep fantasy tropes recognizable and relatable. Castles and big wood ships would not exist in a magic rich environment, yet face it - pirates and big castles have a cool factor and makes fantasy relatable for players.

My point? Be liberal with your suspension of disbelief and try not to be a jerk. I know, with high magic it's a real temptation. I think there's a reason most AP adventures stop at 17th level. Magic shenanigans.

High level and abuse enabling magic is fine so long as it is used sparingly rather than a first resort to everything.


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Questions;

1) When you read a book of explosive runes you only detonate the one you read correct?

2) Does Greater Dispel Magic dispel resolve sequentially or concurrently? This matters because if sequential one detonation could potentially destroy the other runes.

3) What summon has Greater Dispel Magic?

4) I thought summons won't commit blatant suicide unless they're mindless?

5) DC to find explosive runes without detonation is Perception 28, does this insinuate that with enough perception you can realize whats going on if it were thrust in you face with enough perception before fully reading the thing?

6) Explosive runes has a close range so I assume that the detonations don't spread. 50 explosive runes still only damage the cube they're in and the cubes around it right?


Ah, this brings back fond memories of the time my cleric ran around a town randomly placing Glyphs on building doors to burn down buildings. But, I digress.

Explosive Runes are a great terror tactic. Great use for my own homebrew "Kamikaze Kobold Klan".

"You see a large mob of kobolds charging you, wielding...paper"
Players: "Uh oh..."

For pure nuking though, my current fav has to be Control Winds cast at max level - go from still air to Tornado instantly. Good diameter too and the damage to pretty much everyone and everything will be impressive.

To stay on topic - For added joy, I'm thinking you leave your Explosive Rune leaflets in the area too - so now the survivors in the ruins and wreckage see paper strewn all over the place and...(boom). Wreck the place and even the debris can kill you if you survive...

Trailer Park Tornado Disaster + Saving Private Ryan explosion carnage all rolled into one...

Lantern Lodge

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Doesn't the runes need to specifically be read to work?


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

To answer Malwing -

For point one -
Correct, even if the book was nothing except explosive runes, only the first one would trigger and would not set off the others if it was read, destroying the other runes most likely without triggering them. That's why Greater dispel magic (with area dispel) is key to the suitcase nuke tactic.

For point two -
If Greater dispel magic is used as an area dispel, it covers a 20 foot area. Normally it won't work on magic items, yet explosive runes specifically says that dispel magic works on it. This means it works on everything in the radius at the same time. Technically, each individual rune would have it's own save, so there may be a number of duds in the explosive phonebook. This still leaves a lot of force in one place.

For point three -
A Nalfeshnee has a SLA of greater dispel magic (or Glabrezu using SLA of wish).
A failed erase spell works too, yet only on one of the runes.

For point four -
A summoned creature can be ordered to do suicidal things since it is only a "shade" of the original outsider, not the core of it. A gated or planar ally outsider would usually avoid such suicidal actions since that is the actual being, not some figment splinter of its essence.
(Kill a summon monster or summon nature's ally, the outsider just had a bad nightmare. Kill a planar ally or gated outsider, you destroyed the real deal).

For point five -
Yes, it means you know enough to not read it because it might do something nasty (still need spellcraft to figure out what kind of nasty. Does it put you to sleep, blow up, make you insane?).

For point six -
True, yet with a few hundred sheets in the same space going off at once, it can be argued that a single target in range takes the damage of all of the sheets at once. That could potentially kill a Kaiju, terrasque, or just about anything else in the game that has hit points. Even incorporeal creatures take half damage. Reading the top rune would set one off destroying all the rest, which is why time stop figured into the equation of the nuke - only a failed greater dispel works, and you need the caser to have the spell at a lower level than the caster of the explosive runes (though a scroll of greater dispel magic with a minimal caster level in it's creation might work too, so long as no one reads the top rune first).

So you can see it is situational, yet potent. If the dispel greater magic succeeds on an odd roll, the nuke is disarmed. If someone reads, fails erases, or uses the normal dispel magic on the top sheet and fails, the nuke has a relatively small 6d6 explosion that destroys the hundreds of other runes without additional effect. If everything goes to plan, you get the damage of 6d6 times however many pages are in that explosive phonebook.

All of this could have been avoided if it was stated explosive runes were not cumulative in effect should more than one be triggered in the same area simultaneously. Yet, here we are.


Imagine magi-tech guns as lead bullets with explosive runes on the back and once sighted you flip a cover and peer through enchanted, force immune glass? Thats gotta accelerate more than plain old black powder. Makes them rare too as you only get one by being a trusted lietenent of a decently powerful caster. :P

More seriously, leaflet bombing explosive runes is an awesome idea for a campaign where a cabal of wizards want to control knowledge and keep the common people subordinate. Possibly some evil clerics siding with them. Of course Goblin tribes flock to the great anti-reading crusade.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

How do you notice an explosive runes and thus know not to read it unless you've already read it???

The brain doesn't work that way, you can't accidentally have text thrust into your face and not have your brain immediately try to decipher its meaning. It's an automatic response; the only argument one could make against this is that a person might duck or flinch instead after having something thrust into their face. Humans are on top of everything BECAUSE our brains are so good at pattern recognition--which is why this trick is so evil and effective--it turns human nature against itself.


... It's pretty easy to not read something thrust at your face in the middle of a combat situation.


You know what's fun?

Having 50+ magical effects detonate all at once that have to pierce an enemy's SR. Either the GM has the headache of rolling each effect individually, or they can have it all lean on one roll.

IT AIN'T EASY, BEIN' CHEESY.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

lemeres wrote:
dumping a bunch of runed papers into a town seems like a horrifically effective tactic.

Brings a whole new meaning to the term "leaflet bomb."


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

In response to Ravingdork's question as to whether or not you notice an explosive rune and thus not read it -

A perception check of 28 is required. It is assumed that this is in a situation that they suspect a trap, and possibly some magical rune that might case harm or inconvenience. If suspicious a PC can make the perception check and might stop before reading something as it just feels wrong. An intuitive feeling, if you will.

It does not tell them there is an explosive rune, just that something should not be read. Spellcraft would be needed to tell if writing is an explosive rune, or some glyph of sleep or something. Don't ask how they can determine this without reading, spellcraft is a pretty loopy skill.


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Tels wrote:

Cast Explosive Runes several times on a piece of paper.

Use Wand of Erase with CL 1 to attempt to dispel Explosive Runes. Roll 1d20+1 vs DC 15. If you fail, they all detonate.

Anyway, so the Party runs in, and the Goblins charge with their Rune Shields. The party moves up and I say, "Perception check" and they notice that there is something on the shiel*BOOOM*

1. No where in the spell does it say you can cast it more than once on the same object.

2. You auto dispel your own spells.

3. It's not SEEING, it's READING.

The party moves up and I say, "Perception check" and they notice that there is something on the shield..."Do you read what's on the shield"? if no, then the runes do nothing.


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For now, I'm filing this spell in the "You don't abuse it as a player, I won't abuse it as a DM!" category.


Ravingdork wrote:

How do you notice an explosive runes and thus know not to read it unless you've already read it???

The brain doesn't work that way, you can't accidentally have text thrust into your face and not have your brain immediately try to decipher its meaning. It's an automatic response; the only argument one could make against this is that a person might duck or flinch instead after having something thrust into their face. Humans are on top of everything BECAUSE our brains are so good at pattern recognition--which is why this trick is so evil and effective--it turns human nature against itself.

Not true during medieval and ancient times. Julius Caesar was remarkable in that he could read a letter straight thru, without sounding it out and puzzling where the sentences started & ended first.

Besides the spell specifies READING as opposed to viewing.


DrDeth wrote:
Tels wrote:

Cast Explosive Runes several times on a piece of paper.

Use Wand of Erase with CL 1 to attempt to dispel Explosive Runes. Roll 1d20+1 vs DC 15. If you fail, they all detonate.

Anyway, so the Party runs in, and the Goblins charge with their Rune Shields. The party moves up and I say, "Perception check" and they notice that there is something on the shiel*BOOOM*

1. No where in the spell does it say you can cast it more than once on the same object.

2. You auto dispel your own spells.

3. It's not SEEING, it's READING.

The party moves up and I say, "Perception check" and they notice that there is something on the shield..."Do you read what's on the shield"? if no, then the runes do nothing.

1. I use individual objects when I do it.

2. I use a summon, called servant or simulacrum to cast Greater Dispel Magic, usually a Nalfeshnee.
3. I actually agree here.


lemeres wrote:
JoeJ wrote:
boring7 wrote:

I had a DM tagging party members with Sepia Snake Sigils cast on the outside of a building, despite us standing 20 or 30 feet away. Worse still I'm pretty sure it was a published adventure that was pulling that crap on us, for no real discernible reason since there wasn't anyone around to take advantage of half the party being asleep (or whatever it was, this was back in 3.5 and a third-party publisher).

On the outside of a building? Was this a building in town? If so it sounds just a little bit antisocial. And rather pointless, since random strangers would be setting them off.

Gangs where their tags are literally designed to make it impossible for outsiders to get into their turf. Wizards only, fools.

I am really, really getting enamored by the sheer societal problems these things cause when you take them out of the dungeon and put them into the city.

In the adventure it was some hermit mage tower out in the boonies.

And since the caster can let allies not trigger the rune, it really WOULD make an excellent "no outsiders" tag.


The way I understand Explosive Runes, correct me if I'm wrong, is that whichever one you read explodes. If it explodes, nearby (reading distance) enemies and objects take the damage. They would destroy the unread Runes.


Ngatha wrote:
The way I understand Explosive Runes, correct me if I'm wrong, is that whichever one you read explodes. If it explodes, nearby (reading distance) enemies and objects take the damage. They would destroy the unread Runes.

Is it so much to ask people to read? Really? The tactic is that you use the area version of Greater Dispel Magic cast by someone or something that is not yourself, which is guaranteed to fail to dispel your Explosive Runes. This will trigger all of them at once.


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Ngatha wrote:
The way I understand Explosive Runes, correct me if I'm wrong, is that whichever one you read explodes. If it explodes, nearby (reading distance) enemies and objects take the damage. They would destroy the unread Runes.

That is correct. The only way to make several of them go off at once is to attempt a Greater Dispel Magic on all of them within a 20' radius and fail the caster check to dispel. And the only way to be certain the caster check will fail is if the Explosive Runes are cast at CL 21 or better. Which is why this really isn't a game breaking maneuver.

The Exchange

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If explosive runes were as easy to trigger as some posters seem to believe, it seems clear that Golarion would be an unlettered, barbaric world, where literate people would be stabbed to death as soon as they exhibited that ability - in order to keep them from inadvertently dooming their ignorant teammates by reading any of the explosive runes parchments that litter the earth in the wake of the ancient Wizard Wars.

Shargok, Goblin Truthspeaker: Remember: literacy kills!


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Anzyr wrote:
Nathanael Love wrote:
Anzyr wrote:


I see nothing in the spell that suggests it is purely to defend things. In fact there's lots of way to use offensively, including have summoned monsters read them directly in front of your target. Magic is *supposed* be used creatively... that's the whole point of a TTRPG vs. a video game.

It specifically refers to itself as a magic trap. Traps are not things you throw across the battlefield.

There is a difference between using something creatively and ignoring limitations of spells based on semantics to get undercosted damage varieties from lower level spells.

That's not problem solving and it borders of simply being dishonest to the spirit of the game.

So the Trapper Ranger does not exist? Or are his traps just not meant for combat? Genuinely curious.

Don't his traps all trigger off stepping in on or near them?

If explosive runes triggered on a creature stepping into its square instead of reading, then sure its fine. But that kind of trigger would be less aggressively designed in reference to the damage's lack of save and amount and the ability to stack it.

Shadow Lodge

DrDeth wrote:
EvilPaladin wrote:
Simply cast it on a thousand sheets of paper, and then use Craft[Bookbinding] to form them into a book. Then make sure to target the Dispel AoE so it hits the book along the side opposite the spine, technically hitting all of the pages in the book.
It's either one item or many items. There's nothing that sez it can be cast multiple times on one item.

Sorry for the late response, only skimmed it earlier.

Get it in a 3-ring binder. Or, if the GM says that those don't exist in PF, use a sharp implement to cut a hole in each of the pieces of paper[before casting the spell], then tie a string through all of the holes. Simply cut the string, and then they are merely a collection of individual objects stacked on top of each other. They are when the string is tied too IMO, but they could be interpreted as one.


Lincoln Hills wrote:


Shargok, Goblin Truthspeaker: Remember: literacy kills!

Good friend of mine. Shame what happened when that rampaging band of adventurers came through.

Grand Lodge

I have read through this post and as I sit here and just shake my head, I ma forced to point out several problems with many of the attempts to make this magical trap an offensive weapon.

1. For those of you planning your marauding goblin horde with explosive runes on the front side of tower shield, please note the following from the spell itself:
"Target: one touched object weighing no more than 10 lbs."

A tower shield weighs 45 lbs so a small sized one for a goblin would weigh 22.5 lbs. Too big to put explosive runes on.

2. For those talking about them on a piece of paper, if that is the only thing on the paper it would take a Perception check of 28 to notice them as they are a magical trap (which is what the spell was designed as).

3. For all others, the spell states that there are only three ways to make the runes explode: reading the information they protect, failed erase, or failed dispel magic. So... even if you were crazy enough to sit down and put explosive runes on every page of a book, the first page that is read would cause 6d6 points of damage to the reader and to the book thus destroying all the pages but not triggering them.

4. For the spell to trigger, and this is the irony of it all, you have to read the information. This is ironic because I get the sense that many of the people posting here had not actually read the spell. The information that it protects must be read. The definition of reading, as listed by Merriam-Webster is " to look at and understand the meaning of letters, words, symbols, etc." Please note it says "UNDERSTAND," not just look at.If the information that is being protected is written in Draconic and the person inspecting the book does not know Draconic, they cannot read the book, therefore they cannot trigger the runes. The same with maps; if I created a map and used my own short hand that only I understood, and then cast explosive runes on it, no one else could set it off because they don't understand the meaning of the symbols that the runes are protecting therefore they cannot read it.

In summary, the explosive runes spell is a magical trap spell designed to protect information from getting into the wrong hands. Please stop tying to make it an offensive spell, because it is not.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

1. this is old, 2. you just awakened Anzyr, this won't end well.

but...

Anzyr wrote:
Ngatha wrote:
The way I understand Explosive Runes, correct me if I'm wrong, is that whichever one you read explodes. If it explodes, nearby (reading distance) enemies and objects take the damage. They would destroy the unread Runes.

Is it so much to ask people to read? Really? The tactic is that you use the area version of Greater Dispel Magic cast by someone or something that is not yourself, which is guaranteed to fail to dispel your Explosive Runes. This will trigger all of them at once.


I had a player ask me about this once. The book with lots of pages with ER on them. He wanted to dispel them all at once.

I invoked the "Line of Effect" rule: the dispel magic needs to have line of effect to the runes themselves. Having LOE to just the edge of the paper the run was written on is not the same thing as having LOE to the runes themselves. No LOE, no boom.

Maybe, as the book flies through the air (assuming it's thrown), a few pages spread open, but that even tends to happen in clumps so a book with 100 pages might only have 3-4 pages trigger in the dispel magic, destroying the book with the remaining 96 or so pages unexploded.

This ruling ended the discussion.

Is it a cheesy ruling? Maybe, but I don't think it's any more cheesy than the ER-book-bomb idea. Fight cheese with cheese, I say.


I guess everyone's just missing the fact a bad guy could start the fight with the greater dispel magic as a debuffer and solve all issues by accident.


Also I started to skim once it was mentioned to just use time stop to open a bag to fight a bad guy.

Time stop.


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

the area version can be cast into the inside of a scroll pretty easily i think. Also there's no limit on how densely packed the runes can be you could have 100 on a single page.

Sovereign Court

If someone tried this in one of my games - I'd just argue that the first rune went off and destroyed all of the rest of them before the Dispel Magic affected them.

It's well within RAW - Greater Dispel Magic doesn't say whether or not all dispels are done instantaneously or if there is a small delay as the magic works its way out from the focus point of the spell (usually moot). I'd simply choose to interpret it as a tiny delay.


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

At which point I'd use an adamantium scroll and the lettering would be etched into the adamantium.

WE HAVE TO GO DEEPER


How about instead of coming up with rules that have absolutely no support by RAW through the sort of mental gymnastics that is usually done by munchkins when they want to try to force insane troll logic past their GMs, you just follow this excellent piece of advice.

Claxon wrote:

The simple answer is tell your players no when they try to use this trick. Explain, calmly, that it trivializes things and you will not allow it to be used in such a manner.

There all sorts of mechanical restriciton you could try to put into place about how it functions so that you don't have a suitcase nuke. But at the end of the day, if you talk to your players about it they will either understand and accept or they will whine about it. If they whine and refuse to accept your decision then tell them they can find another game, or tell the group they can find another game master.

Simple as that.

It really is that simple.


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Bandw2 wrote:

1. this is old, 2. you just awakened Anzyr, this won't end well.

but...

Anzyr wrote:
Ngatha wrote:
The way I understand Explosive Runes, correct me if I'm wrong, is that whichever one you read explodes. If it explodes, nearby (reading distance) enemies and objects take the damage. They would destroy the unread Runes.

Is it so much to ask people to read? Really? The tactic is that you use the area version of Greater Dispel Magic cast by someone or something that is not yourself, which is guaranteed to fail to dispel your Explosive Runes. This will trigger all of them at once.

*looks at thread*

*looks at Terraria 1.3*

You're all on your own.

Sovereign Court

Bandw2 wrote:

At which point I'd use an adamantium scroll and the lettering would be etched into the adamantium.

WE HAVE TO GO DEEPER

*Shrug* - at most a half a dozen would go off - the rest would still be destroyed. 6d6 would (mean)average several points of damage even to adamantine. Heck - a (un)lucky roll would deal 16 - 3 more than enough to destroy a light shield made of adamantine - I doubt that such a 'scroll' would have nearly as much.

If they can somehow get a bunch of +5 adamantine sheets - 'scrolls' - so that several dozen would likely go off before destroying any of them were destroyed - go ahead. There are far worse things you can do with that much gold.


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
Charon's Little Helper wrote:
Bandw2 wrote:

At which point I'd use an adamantium scroll and the lettering would be etched into the adamantium.

WE HAVE TO GO DEEPER

*Shrug* - at most a half a dozen would go off - the rest would still be destroyed. 6d6 would (mean)average several points of damage even to adamantine. Heck - a (un)lucky roll would deal 16 - 3 more than enough to destroy a light shield made of adamantine - I doubt that such a 'scroll' would have nearly as much.

If they can somehow get a bunch of +5 adamantine sheets - 'scrolls' - so that several dozen would likely go off before destroying any of them were destroyed - go ahead. There are far worse things you can do with that much gold.

wait... if they don't go off instantly or at the same time, i can just cast it at a book of them, the pages would absorb an instant of damage then the next rune would be able to be effected by dispel magic. I just need to make it so each page can absorb about 1/3 of the damage or so possible from the number of explosive runes on that page.

Sovereign Court

Bandw2 wrote:
Charon's Little Helper wrote:
Bandw2 wrote:

At which point I'd use an adamantium scroll and the lettering would be etched into the adamantium.

WE HAVE TO GO DEEPER

*Shrug* - at most a half a dozen would go off - the rest would still be destroyed. 6d6 would (mean)average several points of damage even to adamantine. Heck - a (un)lucky roll would deal 16 - 3 more than enough to destroy a light shield made of adamantine - I doubt that such a 'scroll' would have nearly as much.

If they can somehow get a bunch of +5 adamantine sheets - 'scrolls' - so that several dozen would likely go off before destroying any of them were destroyed - go ahead. There are far worse things you can do with that much gold.

wait... if they don't go off instantly or at the same time, i can just cast it at a book of them, the pages would absorb an instant of damage then the next rune would be able to be effected by dispel magic. I just need to make it so each page can absorb about 1/3 of the damage or so possible from the number of explosive runes on that page.

That's silly - and not RAW at all. /sarcasm

(In case it didn't show - this whole line of reasoning was intended to be sarcastic and not taken seriously. Of course you should use OOC reasoning to get them to not do something so ridiculous.)

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