Alchemist and Brew potion


Rules Questions


i am in a group were i am playing an alchemist and there is a very big rule question, it involves brew potion now my understanding is that the alchemist can brew any potion that he know a formulae for, not just from ones that he has made extracts of however the rest of the group is saying i would have to use a extract to replace the needed"spell" as per the basic crafting rules, which is it thank you in advance

so basically they are saying that i have to make an extract of whatever i am trying to make a potion for then make the potion for it?

my interpretation is the the rules on the alchemist itself say that i can make any potion that i know the formulae for, which basically is in my spell book

Dark Archive

Your interpretation is incorrect. Per the FAQ update:

Quote:

Brew Potion: Can a character with this feat create a potion of any spell he knows simply by adding +5 to the DC, even without preparing it?

No. When creating potions, the crafter must prepare and expend the spell used by the potion as part of its creation. This is an exception to the normal rules that allow a caster to skip one of the prerequisites for crafting an item by adding +5 to the DC.

Update: Page 549, in the Magic Item Creation rules, in the second paragraph, change the last sentence to read as follows.

In addition, you cannot create potions, scrolls, staves, wands, or any other spell-trigger or spell-completion magic item without meeting its prerequisites.

posted July 2011

Yes, brew potion is now a sub-optimal crafting feat and not really worth investing in.


so my question is why does it say that in the alchemst rules he can brew any formulae he knows>

Dark Archive

Because he CAN brew any formulae he knows, he just has to prepare it as an extract first.


ok it just seems really weirdly worded, different than what i have seen elsewhere on here, and i do not understand why they would not just put alchemist gets brew potion feat at level one


Well because extracts aren't spells, so they put it in there to say that he can use his extracts to make them. Otherwise he'd need spells from somewhere else. Because extracts aren't spells even if they have some similarities with spells.

Grand Lodge

I assume you are not playing in PFS, if you are Brew Potion is substituted out for Extra Bombs per the Additional Resources. If your potion making is falling flat, I would suggest asking the DM if you could substitute that for it.

I also agree with most posters that the rules indicate that you must prepare the extract then convert it into the potion, using one of your extract slots up in the process.

Dark Archive

Daniel Thrace wrote:

I assume you are not playing in PFS, if you are Brew Potion is substituted out for Extra Bombs per the Additional Resources. If your potion making is falling flat, I would suggest asking the DM if you could substitute that for it.

I also agree with most posters that the rules indicate that you must prepare the extract then convert it into the potion, using one of your extract slots up in the process.

and don't forget you can only brew up to ONE potion per day. No more than that, ever.


Wow, I didn't know about that FAQ. That makes Brew Potion pretty much useless. Guess I'll stick to Infusions then.


see i do not understand why you would say formulae and not just extracts then, i did not know about the PFS rules about substituting brew potion for more bombs, i will look into that if this es the actual rule

also the 1 potion per day thing counteracts what the brew potion feat says "Brewing a potion takes 2 hours if its base price is 250 gp or less"


can someone get me a link the the PFS rule with the bombs replacing brew potion part?

Dark Archive

veneficus83 wrote:

see i do not understand why you would say formulae and not just extracts then, i did not know about the PFS rules about substituting brew potion for more bombs, i will look into that if this es the actual rule

also the 1 potion per day thing counteracts what the brew potion feat says "Brewing a potion takes 2 hours if its base price is 250 gp or less"

You really need to read the magic item creation rules. It doesn't matter how long it takes, you are limited to 1 per day.

magic item creation rules, pg. 549 wrote:
Regardless of the time needed for construction, a caster can create no more than one magic item per day.


Mathwei ap Niall wrote:


and don't forget you can only brew up to ONE potion per day. No more than that, ever.

While the alchemist can only brew a single potion a day, there are a few tricks to produce more. If he has a tumor familiar with the valet archetype it appears as though the combined efforts can result in two a day (if someone see's a reason why not, let me know). Additionally, he can use the dilution alchemist discovery to produce one more.


Rub-Eta wrote:
Wow, I didn't know about that FAQ. That makes Brew Potion pretty much useless. Guess I'll stick to Infusions then.

You can produce a 2 hour magic item every day, even while adventuring.

This makes it really easy and relatively cost effective to stockpile level 1 potions.

Sure wands are cheaper per charge, but everybody has to wait until level 5 to make them, and I expect an Alchemist would have several other hurdles to cross in making a wand.

This leaves you with brewing away at that 1 per day potion stockpile.

Dark Archive

Iron Giant wrote:
Mathwei ap Niall wrote:


and don't forget you can only brew up to ONE potion per day. No more than that, ever.
While the alchemist can only brew a single potion a day, there are a few tricks to produce more. If he has a tumor familiar with the valet archetype it appears as though the combined efforts can result in two a day (if someone see's a reason why not, let me know). Additionally, he can use the dilution alchemist discovery to produce one more.

Dilution will allow you to get around the 1 per day kinda (it lets you make 2 of the same potion once per day) but unfortunately the familiar is a no-go option due to the exact same faq entry.

Quote:
No. When creating potions, the crafter must prepare and expend the spell used by the potion as part of its creation

since the familiar is the crafter it would need to prepare and expend the spell but since the familiar can't prepare the spell/extract it fails to fulfil the requirements of the FAQ.

And before you bring up the familiar spell metamagic, remember alchemists aren't spellcasters so don't qualify to take the feat.


You might be missing the point of the entry. Re-emphasis can do some strange things. For instance:

FAQ wrote:
No. When creating potions, the crafter must prepare and expend the spell used by the potion as part of its creation

Based on that, an alchemist can't brew potions at all. Neither can sorcerers. Using spell like abilities, wands and scrolls are out too. The answered question is asking if the crafter can skip casting a spell that he knows at the cost of a DC penalty, not who can cast said spell. Here's some other relevant info that might persuade you-

Core Rulebook wrote:
Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions. These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created. Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item's creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed).......In addition, you cannot create potions, spell-trigger, or spell-completion magic items without meeting its prerequisites.
FAQ wrote:

Crafting and Bypassing Requirements: What crafting requirements can you bypass by adding +5 to the DC of your Spellcraft check?

As presented on page 549 of the Core Rulebook, there are no limitations other than (1) you have to have the item creation feat, and (2) you cannot create potions, spell-trigger, or spell-completion magic items without meeting their spell prerequisites. So racial requirements, specific spell requirements, math requirements (such as "caster level must be at least three times the enhancement bonus"), and so on, are all subject to the +5 DC rule.

My interpretation is that potions need all prerequisites filled; the spell prerequisite can be fulfilled through a magic item or another caster (it essentially just must be casted). Maybe I'm wrong, but as I implied before, going totally RAW on this leads to contradictions.

Seeing as crafting isn't even pfs legal, it's all up to the GM anyways. I guess if he decided against it the alchemist could take cooperative crafting to make the wording even more airtight, but that's a lot of resources going into making another potion per day. It would probably only be worthwhile in a campaign focused on owning a potion business LOL


Upon further reflection on this, I don't think the valet tumor familiar can actually produce a second potion (if anyone cares). I still believe that the caster can use his spell for a familiar's brew, but looking closely at valet:

Animal Archive wrote:
Able Assistant (Ex): A valet’s master treats the valet as if it possessed the Cooperative Crafting feat and shared all Craft skills and item creation feats he possesses. This ability replaces Alertness.

I think the phrase "treats the valet as if it possessed..." shows that the intent is just to give the crafting bonus and double the gp value for the day.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / Alchemist and Brew potion All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.