Improved Familiar and starting feats


Pathfinder Society Roleplaying Guild


So my Wizard, and first PFS character just hit level 7! I'm super pumped, and am trying to figure something out. I have a boon that allows me to get a faerie dragon familiar, and I just took improved familiar. Additionally I have Animal Archive I searched all over and couldn't find the answer to this.

In the Additional Resources it states :
1. First, an animal companion, familiar, or bonded mount, may choose one slot listed under its body type when taking the Extra Item Slot feat

2. Feats: all feats on pages 18-19 are legal except Familiar Spell

Now on page 18 with the feats the books says:

This section presents new feats for animal companions and familiars, as well as for PCs that make use of these animals.
Some feats might be available to other creatures that meet the prerequisites. Feats that are meant for familiars can be
switched out for a familiar's default feats (as listed in the familiar's statistics) if the familiar meets the prerequisites. Such
feat replacements must be made when the PC first acquires a new familiar, and-like all new feats from supplemental
sources-the new feats should be approved by the GM before being integrated into play.

So my question is, in PFS, when I aquire a new familiar can I choose to replace my familiar's starting feats with feats that it qualifies for?

If the answer is no, why are familiars specifically allowed to choose the Extra Item Slot feat if they do not gain any feats while leveling up, and is there a way I can get my familiar a feat?

Grand Lodge ****

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Normally you can swap out an Improved Familiar's starting feats when you get it for those listed in Animal Archive, but the Faerie Dragon is a special case. The boon allows you to take that specific faerie dragon as a familiar, so you can't change anything about him. There is no way to give him any more feats.

However, you don't need Extra Item Slot for your Faerie Dragon at all, because he has all item slots unlocked by default! He just can't activate any magic items beyond wands, so while he can use any passive magic items, he can't use anything you need to turn on.

*

1 person marked this as a favorite.

The fact that it is a specific Dragon seems like fluff to me. I don't have the specific text in front of me, but I don't remember reading anything that would explicitly block the normal rule of feat swapping.

I hated RiddiWipple. I almost died to his trap; I thought I was dead for about 30 seconds. When I got the boon I got the dragon Nogthletepp....or something close.....that character is long retired now and I forget the exact name I gave it. No one ever thought twice about it.

Grand Lodge ****

The boon specifically says you bond with the faerie dragon from the scenario, and there's clarification on the matter from Mark Moreland here.


So it is good to know that familiars can usually use the alternate feats in pfs, is there a ruling on that Jeff that I can link to, or where did you get your information? It isn't listed in the additional resources.

Also, if it is legal to swap out feats, I see no problem with swapping

Companion in question's:
Riddywipple's
feats for different ones. The boon says you can bond this specific faerie dragon, nothing about choosing different feats.

The relevant text from Animal Archive says "Such
feat replacements must be made when the PC first acquires a new familiar" which I am doing when I first get said familiar.

The text you linked from Mark Moreland says nothing about it getting different abilities. It is a response to a poster asking if it died if you could get another, which the answer was no.

I guess a more clarifying question could be, how or when does the familiar switch out feats. Are we assuming you are hunting high and low for a familiar that in the wild had the feats you wanted it to have, or when you select a familiar you "magic" or train or whatever as part of the choosing process to change the feats it had to what you want.

Grand Lodge ****

Jayder22 wrote:
So it is good to know that familiars can usually use the alternate feats in pfs, is there a ruling on that Jeff that I can link to, or where did you get your information? It isn't listed in the additional resources.

Here.

Jayder22 wrote:


Also, if it is legal to swap out feats, I see no problem with swapping ** spoiler omitted ** feats for different ones. The boon says you can bond this specific faerie dragon, nothing about choosing different feats.

The relevant text from Animal Archive says "Such
feat replacements must be made when the PC first acquires a new familiar" which I am doing when I first get said familiar.

The text you linked from Mark Moreland says nothing about it getting different abilities. It is a response to a poster asking if it died if you could get another, which the answer was no.

I guess a more clarifying question could be, how or when does the familiar switch out feats. Are we assuming you are hunting high and low for a familiar that in the wild had the feats you wanted it to have, or when you select a familiar you "magic" or train or whatever as part of the choosing process to change the feats it had to what you want.

See, I'm under the impression that when the boon states you can have the faerie dragon from the scenario, you get the faerie dragon from the scenario, not a modified version of the faerie dragon of the scenario.


Jeff Merola wrote:
See, I'm under the impression that when the boon states you can have the faerie dragon from the scenario, you get the faerie dragon from the scenario, not a modified version of the faerie dragon of the scenario.

I can see that viewpoint and I can see where you are coming from with it. I agree that you get the faerie dragon from that scenario, and when you get him he is unmodified, I just think it is not stating, or is unclear about what you can do when you get him


also, thanks for the link to that post, I dotted it for if it ever comes up

*

When I started PFS, I got hung up on fluff. I deeply regret that now. I screwed some people over in the name of what I thought was most realistic. PFS takes regular departures from realism. I don't think there is anything in RAW preventing these feats on this dragon.

As stated above, familiars change when you get and unget them. I have never seen his stats, they aren't on the boon and the GM didn't show me the book. But I know at a minimum his skills changed when he became mine, if he is like every other familiar, there were even more changes in the bonding process. If you have to fluff the feats in, there is an avenue to do it.

As far as my rename/repersonality. I fluffed it as if I crushed his old personality (I later saw something like this on game of thrones.) I said that I did this once, rightfully no one cared whether they heard this story or not when I introduced Yogal-Hoth in later scenarios.

Shadow Lodge **

Jeff Merola wrote:
However, you don't need Extra Item Slot for your Faerie Dragon at all, because he has all item slots unlocked by default! He just can't activate any magic items beyond wands, so while he can use any passive magic items, he can't use anything you need to turn on.

Nothing in the boon says anything to imply this, and I have never found anything that implies this familiar is treated any differently than any other familiar in PFS.

Keep in mind that Pathfinder Society handles this differently than standard Pathfinder. Whereas animals would normally get all the slots listed on the chart, and could then use the Extra Item Slot feat to unlock slots not on the chart, in PFS they get barding and the neck slot, and can only use Extra Item Slot to unlock item slots that ARE on the slot.

That means, barring some special exception for this specific familiar (which I'm pretty sure doesn't exist), it gets access to barding and neck slot items, and can use Extra Item Slot to unlock any slot listed under Biped (hands) on the chart (which is all of them).

*

It is worded kind of odd. Here Mike clarifies it a lot.

Grand Lodge ****

SCPRedMage wrote:
Jeff Merola wrote:
However, you don't need Extra Item Slot for your Faerie Dragon at all, because he has all item slots unlocked by default! He just can't activate any magic items beyond wands, so while he can use any passive magic items, he can't use anything you need to turn on.

Nothing in the boon says anything to imply this, and I have never found anything that implies this familiar is treated any differently than any other familiar in PFS.

Keep in mind that Pathfinder Society handles this differently than standard Pathfinder. Whereas animals would normally get all the slots listed on the chart, and could then use the Extra Item Slot feat to unlock slots not on the chart, in PFS they get barding and the neck slot, and can only use Extra Item Slot to unlock item slots that ARE on the slot.

That means, barring some special exception for this specific familiar (which I'm pretty sure doesn't exist), it gets access to barding and neck slot items, and can use Extra Item Slot to unlock any slot listed under Biped (hands) on the chart (which is all of them).

Mike clarified that Improved Familiars get their slots for free.


I'm glad I posted this, there seem to be all these random forum posts that clarify corner cases, but can be super hard to find, I appreciate you all pointing some out for me.

**

as a Level 13 wizard, here are the feats I took for RW

Evolved Familiar +8 perception L9
Evolved Familiar +8 UMD skill L11
Buy him a Rod of Minor Arcane
Buy him a Ring Spell Knowledge L1 (Magic Missile)

GMs hate my little blaster buddy that scouts for me

Grand Lodge ** Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento aka FLite

I'm pretty sure that doesn't work in PFS.

Unless your familiar has improvised arcane spell caster levels, the ring shouldn't do anything. And PFS familiars cannot activate items (with the rare exception of a handful that can use wands)

Grand Lodge ****

FLite wrote:

I'm pretty sure that doesn't work in PFS.

Unless your familiar has improvised arcane spell caster levels, the ring shouldn't do anything. And PFS familiars cannot activate items (with the rare exception of a handful that can use wands)

Faerie Dragons cast spells as 3rd level Sorcerers. But yeah, he can't use the staff.

Sczarni *****

Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Riddywhipple has Sorcerer levels, so I think the ring works just fine with him.

Grand Lodge ** Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento aka FLite

Of course, for the price of the ring and the staff, you should be able to buy 12 wands of magic missile, 600 magic missiles.

I don't remember if the Faerie Dragon can wield wands in PFS, but if it can, that is probably more than you will need. It is equal to refilling the staff 120 times.

Sczarni *****

Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Faerie Dragons can indeed use wands.

But wands are usually Caster Level 1, meaning a 1d4+1 magic missile.

Riddywhipple's are 2d4+2.

Grand Lodge ** Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento aka FLite

Good Point.

On the other hand, whether it is one magic missile or two, at 13th level I wonder how much effect this will actually have.

The Exchange ****

Regarding RW. He is unique and shouldn't be rebuilt. Here is the post http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qb0p?PFS-SPOILERS-The-Sanos-Abduction-405#3

The Exchange ****

Sitri wrote:

The fact that it is a specific Dragon seems like fluff to me. I don't have the specific text in front of me, but I don't remember reading anything that would explicitly block the normal rule of feat swapping.

I hated RiddiWipple. I almost died to his trap; I thought I was dead for about 30 seconds. When I got the boon I got the dragon Nogthletepp....or something close.....that character is long retired now and I forget the exact name I gave it. No one ever thought twice about it.

It is not fluff, but the one from the scenario.

Shadow Lodge **

Jeff Morse wrote:
Regarding RW. He is unique and shouldn't be rebuilt. Here is the post http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qb0p?PFS-SPOILERS-The-Sanos-Abduction-405#3

Okay, ignoring the fact that that post is from a VL, who doesn't set the rules and is only restating them as he understands them, the post you're referring to only speaks as to replacing that familiar should he die; it says absolutely NOTHING about being forced to stick with the unmodified statblock from Bestiary 3.

For that matter, neither does the boon in question, and the ability to trade out feats is explicitly done when you "acquire" the familiar, implying that it is actually changing the feats it had prior to becoming your familiar, so strictly by RAW, absolutely nothing prevents you from replacing his starting feats with feats from the Animal Archive.

Sovereign Court **

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