Full Round Melee Attack Interrupted - Can I Do a Ranged Attack?


Rules Questions


Okay, lets say I'm using two weapon fighting with a rapier and dagger.

I've got a total of 4 attacks (3 + 1 for my off hand).

While doing my attacks, my opponent drops on Attack Number 2.

"Dude...I killed 'im! That was easy!"

I now have two attacks left, one with my sword and one with my dagger.

There's another badguy 15 feet away. I made a full round action so I can't take a move action to get there.

Can I use one of my two remaining attacks to throw my dagger at the other badguy?


Absolutely.


Sure, and you can throw your rapier too.


I'm glad this thread was started. My DM was not wanting us to even be allowed to switch targets during Full-Rounding, much less change the method of our attacks. Anyone got the specific text tucked away anywhere?


If you have Quick Draw you could also pull out a ranged weapon to attack with, such as more daggers.


Nothing wrote:
Sure, and you can throw your rapier too.

Yup. Although that will incur penalties. If you have quick draw, then instead of throwing the rapier, you could throw two daggers.

EDIT: And imagine the coolness factor :D


Dimminsy wrote:
I'm glad this thread was started. My DM was not wanting us to even be allowed to switch targets during Full-Rounding, much less change the method of our attacks. Anyone got the specific text tucked away anywhere?

Why wouldn't he allow this? You're even allowed to take your 5' step between iterative attacks to move up to another target.


Dimminsy wrote:
I'm glad this thread was started. My DM was not wanting us to even be allowed to switch targets during Full-Rounding, much less change the method of our attacks. Anyone got the specific text tucked away anywhere?

From Full Attack

"You do not need to specify the targets of your attacks ahead of time. You can see how the earlier attacks turn out before assigning the later ones."

You can use each attack in the full attack action to attack anyone you can target with any weapon you can legally use (within range, have weapon readied/loaded, etc.).


Full attack wrote:

If you get more than one attack per round because your base attack bonus is high enough (see Base Attack Bonus in Classes), because you fight with two weapons or a double weapon, or for some special reason, you must use a full-round action to get your additional attacks. You do not need to specify the targets of your attacks ahead of time. You can see how the earlier attacks turn out before assigning the later ones.

The only movement you can take during a full attack is a 5-foot step. You may take the step before, after, or between your attacks.

I realise that this isn't the rules for two weapon fighting, but it does establish the "normal" rules. Notice that in the text it mentions nothing about the attacks having to be melee, and nothing about being unable to switch back and forth between melee and ranged attacks. Unless two weapon fighting rules mentions a specific rule on how it works with that, then assume it functions like a full attack action. (Hint: You wont find rule text that disallows what you described).


Full Round attacks can be divided amongst any targets around you.

Furthermore, if you make a full round attack on someone and they die after attack #1, you can end the full round attack and take a move action. You may have declared a full round attack but you only took the effort equivalent to a standard action.


This combat option is one of the many reason why spring loaded wrist sheathes are awesome.

Kill the guy in front of you and still have an attack left? Pass your primary weapon to your off hand (free action) pop a dagger (or tanglefoot bag, my personal favorite) from your wrist sheathe (free action) toss it with your last attack, and pass your weapon back to your main hand (free action).

Remember you can also 5' adjust between attacks, which can make a big difference when employing short range throwing weapons.

Silver Crusade

Doomed Hero wrote:

This combat option is one of the many reason why spring loaded wrist sheathes are awesome.

Kill the guy in front of you and still have an attack left? Pass your primary weapon to your off hand (free action) pop a dagger (or tanglefoot bag, my personal favorite) from your wrist sheathe (free action) toss it with your last attack, and pass your weapon back to your main hand (free action).

Remember you can also 5' adjust between attacks, which can make a big difference when employing short range throwing weapons.

A few points on this post in particular. First, a lot of GMs, myself included, would not allow a tanglefoot bag in a spring-loaded wrist sheathe. I draw the line at the items enumerated in the item listing and a rolled up scroll (of the ones that have been asked of me so far). Second, you don't have to declare a "main hand" and an "off hand" until you start making the attacks and if you're only using a single one-handed weapon (and no shield), you can make your "main hand" attacks with either hand. You could even make one with your right hand, swap the item to your left hand, and make the next one with your left hand. The only time "main hand" and "off hand" comes into play is when two-weapon fighting and assigning the .5x Str bonus to the attacks from one of your weapons.


OP specified two weapon fighting. Off Hand is a necessary declaration.

Also, Tanglefoot bags (and other grenade-like weapons) are tracked as Ammunition. Wrist sheathes specifically hold ammunition. The only limiting factor is weight. Turns out they weigh 4 pounds, so you're right. They don't fit.

There's a lot of other grenade-like weapons that would though (acid, alchemist fire, liquid ice, a dust of dryness pellet containing 100 gallons of water…)


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Two problems with wrist sheath:
1) it costs a move action to retrieve the item, not a free action (unless I'm missing some addendum somewhere).
2) its RAW is self-contradictory:

RAW states wrote:
The sheath can hold one forearm-length item, such as a dagger, dart, or wand, or up to five arrows or crossbow bolts.

But arrows are significantly longer than a person's forearm, so logically that couldn't work. It does not appear to specifically hold "ammunition" as a category, so anything not dagger, wand or bolt-shaped seems to be precluded.

Where is this "spring-loaded" wrist sheath located? Some 3pp splat book?


Wheldrake wrote:

Two problems with wrist sheath:

1) it costs a move action to retrieve the item, not a free action (unless I'm missing some addendum somewhere).
2) its RAW is self-contradictory:

RAW states wrote:
The sheath can hold one forearm-length item, such as a dagger, dart, or wand, or up to five arrows or crossbow bolts.

But arrows are significantly longer than a person's forearm, so logically that couldn't work. It does not appear to specifically hold "ammunition" as a category, so anything not dagger, wand or bolt-shaped seems to be precluded.

Where is this "spring-loaded" wrist sheath located? Some 3pp splat book?

Spring-loaded Wrist Sheath is from Paizo's Adventurer's Armory book. It works just like a normal wrist sheath, except it's a swift action to retrieve instead of a move and it's a full-round action that provokes to load it rather than a move.

Additionally: "The sheath can hold [one forearm-length item, (such as a dagger, dart, or wand)], or [up to five arrows or crossbow bolts]." That should help with your parsing. The arrows/bolts don't need to be forearm length; they are given as an alternative to a forearm-length item.


Bigdaddyjug wrote:
Doomed Hero wrote:

This combat option is one of the many reason why spring loaded wrist sheathes are awesome.

Kill the guy in front of you and still have an attack left? Pass your primary weapon to your off hand (free action) pop a dagger (or tanglefoot bag, my personal favorite) from your wrist sheathe (free action) toss it with your last attack, and pass your weapon back to your main hand (free action).

Remember you can also 5' adjust between attacks, which can make a big difference when employing short range throwing weapons.

A few points on this post in particular. First, a lot of GMs, myself included, would not allow a tanglefoot bag in a spring-loaded wrist sheathe. I draw the line at the items enumerated in the item listing and a rolled up scroll (of the ones that have been asked of me so far). Second, you don't have to declare a "main hand" and an "off hand" until you start making the attacks and if you're only using a single one-handed weapon (and no shield), you can make your "main hand" attacks with either hand. You could even make one with your right hand, swap the item to your left hand, and make the next one with your left hand. The only time "main hand" and "off hand" comes into play is when two-weapon fighting and assigning the .5x Str bonus to the attacks from one of your weapons.

If you are implying you can twf with a single weapon swapping hands nothing in the rules suggests this.

Silver Crusade

Mojorat wrote:
Bigdaddyjug wrote:
Doomed Hero wrote:

This combat option is one of the many reason why spring loaded wrist sheathes are awesome.

Kill the guy in front of you and still have an attack left? Pass your primary weapon to your off hand (free action) pop a dagger (or tanglefoot bag, my personal favorite) from your wrist sheathe (free action) toss it with your last attack, and pass your weapon back to your main hand (free action).

Remember you can also 5' adjust between attacks, which can make a big difference when employing short range throwing weapons.

A few points on this post in particular. First, a lot of GMs, myself included, would not allow a tanglefoot bag in a spring-loaded wrist sheathe. I draw the line at the items enumerated in the item listing and a rolled up scroll (of the ones that have been asked of me so far). Second, you don't have to declare a "main hand" and an "off hand" until you start making the attacks and if you're only using a single one-handed weapon (and no shield), you can make your "main hand" attacks with either hand. You could even make one with your right hand, swap the item to your left hand, and make the next one with your left hand. The only time "main hand" and "off hand" comes into play is when two-weapon fighting and assigning the .5x Str bonus to the attacks from one of your weapons.
If you are implying you can twf with a single weapon swapping hands nothing in the rules suggests this.

Not at all what I was implying. I was saying a person figting with a single weapon could pass it between his hands with no mechanical effect whatsoever.


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Kazaan wrote:
Additionally: "The sheath can hold [one forearm-length item, (such as a dagger, dart, or wand)], or [up to five arrows or crossbow bolts]." That should help with your parsing. The arrows/bolts don't need to be forearm length; they are given as an alternative to a forearm-length item.

Parse it how you like, but unless it's a wrist sheath *of holding*, those arrows are going to stick a foot out past your wrist and interfere with whatever you're doing with your hand. Even though RAW state that arrows fit in a wrist sheath, that description is flawed and ought to be FAQed.

I don't mind quirky equipment - the wrist sheath seems like a cool item. And it even seems likely that a specially designed one could hold alchemical items instead, although a tanglefoot bag does seem rather big for it. But an arrow is at least twice the length from the inside of your elbow to your wrist. Maybe what we really need is a "wrist-sheath of holding". <g>

Sczarni

To the OP: No one has mentioned it, but if we go back to your scenario for a moment, the rules actually allow you to take a 5' step after your melee attacks and before you throw that dagger... This is an important feature as it can allow you to mitigate penalties that may be applied to the ranged attack roll due to soft cover, partial cover, or in your specific example: range.

Take a 5' step towards your target, throw from 10', and you don't suffer a -2 penalty for being outside the first range increment.

One other point... Someone mentioned you can abort your full-attack after your first attack. This is true unless you are using "Manyshot". There was a FAQ issued clarifying that Manyshot effectively locks you into a full attack. I suppose you could stop firing and conserve ammo, but you cannot take a move action.

FAQ from March 2013 wrote:

Manyshot: Can I fire two arrows with my shot, then cancel the full attack and take a move?

No. Though the rules for "Deciding between an Attack or a Full Attack (Core Rulebook 187) give you the option to move after your first attack instead of making your remaining attacks, Manyshot locks you into using a full attack action as soon as you use it to shoot two arrows.

Silver Crusade

The (single) 5-foot step, which may be taken between any two of your attacks in your full attack action, may put you adjacent to another foe, so you can continue to melee with that guy.

Grand Lodge

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Doomed Hero wrote:

OP specified two weapon fighting. Off Hand is a necessary declaration.

Also, Tanglefoot bags (and other grenade-like weapons) are tracked as Ammunition. Wrist sheathes specifically hold ammunition. The only limiting factor is weight. Turns out they weigh 4 pounds, so you're right. They don't fit.

There's a lot of other grenade-like weapons that would though (acid, alchemist fire, liquid ice, a dust of dryness pellet containing 100 gallons of water…)

Wait, what???

No. No they are not. They are alchemical weapons (a subset of thrown weapons). If they were ammunition, it would be a free action to draw them, and the wrist sheath would be irrelevant.


FLite wrote:
Doomed Hero wrote:

OP specified two weapon fighting. Off Hand is a necessary declaration.

Also, Tanglefoot bags (and other grenade-like weapons) are tracked as Ammunition. Wrist sheathes specifically hold ammunition. The only limiting factor is weight. Turns out they weigh 4 pounds, so you're right. They don't fit.

There's a lot of other grenade-like weapons that would though (acid, alchemist fire, liquid ice, a dust of dryness pellet containing 100 gallons of water…)

Wait, what???

No. No they are not. They are alchemical weapons (a subset of thrown weapons). If they were ammunition, it would be a free action to draw them, and the wrist sheath would be irrelevant.

With respects to the benefits of exploring knowledge in a topic, Tanglefoot bags and Wrist Sheathes are of no interest to me. My character is a "person" not a "gimmick," so will be fighting with Sword and Dagger his entire career unless his life and story changes that. He might use a tanglefoot bag at an inn as a practical joke, and will never want to use something (from his perspective) as "base" or "cowardly" as a wrist sheath.

Thanks for all the input though. It's good to know that a dropped opponent doesn't end my full round action.

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