Wand of spiritual weapon - whose faith matters?


Rules Questions


Simply put, does a wand of spiritual weapon manifest the favored weapon of the creator's faith or the user's?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

DM's call. Personally I'd use the former because it'd make for a more interesting story.


What happens if it's used by someone who doesn't venerate a deity?


I'd go with the former as well. Makes more sense to me, plus generally avoids seebs' issue.


I was very concerned when my cleric found a wand of spiritual weapon, because if it had been a weapon of Rovagug or Lamashtu, she would have burned it.

But my DM said, "It's the same as your deity"

I know it's the DM's call, but I consider it was a lost opportunity.

Very Respectfully,
--Bacon


Wouldn't that mean it'd be from a brethern of your god? I'd be worried someone died or something.


Rules wise I would say the creator if the wand but I think its better abd easier to go by whoever is using the wand.

Silver Crusade

I would say it's almost 100% the creator's, because you're not actually casting a spell with a wand, you're just triggering a spell somebody else already cast. I would also say you use the creator's Wis bonus and BAB as well. Which, since in those cases you use the minimum possible, means you'll be using 11 Wis and BAB of 0 as they are the minimum you could have and be able to cast spiritual weapon. Good luck actually hitting anything.


Don't know how to rule it by RAW or RAI... My immediate hunch would be the creator, but I might be biased because I also think it would lead to a much cooler story.


Bigdaddyjug wrote:
I would also say you use the creator's Wis bonus and BAB as well. Which, since in those cases you use the minimum possible, means you'll be using 11 Wis and BAB of 0 as they are the minimum you could have and be able to cast spiritual weapon.

Isn't Spiritual Weapon a 2nd level spell? Wouldn't that mean Wis 12, and BAB +2 at minimum effect? (assuming 3rd level cleric)

Very Respectfully,
--Bacon

Silver Crusade

Better_with_Bacon wrote:
Bigdaddyjug wrote:
I would also say you use the creator's Wis bonus and BAB as well. Which, since in those cases you use the minimum possible, means you'll be using 11 Wis and BAB of 0 as they are the minimum you could have and be able to cast spiritual weapon.

Isn't Spiritual Weapon a 2nd level spell? Wouldn't that mean Wis 12, and BAB +2 at minimum effect? (assuming 3rd level cleric)

Very Respectfully,
--Bacon

You're right. I was thinking it was 1st level and didn't bother to check before posting.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

There is decidedly an issue with either making the scrolls too weak (Wis 12, BAB +2) or too bland and a bit strong (users' Wis and BAB could be pretty high, user's deity).

Rulewise, I believe it's the latter, or you run into a number of odd situations, such as a scroll of transformation using the creator's character level for BAB. If that's a rule, you'll probably see a ton of UMD builds in PFS buying them early :)

Personally, I like to use Creator's Deity's weapon, but wand-wielder's BAB & Wisdom - maximum flavor, maximum utility.

Silver Crusade

Majuba wrote:

There is decidedly an issue with either making the scrolls too weak (Wis 12, BAB +2) or too bland and a bit strong (users' Wis and BAB could be pretty high, user's deity).

Rulewise, I believe it's the latter, or you run into a number of odd situations, such as a scroll of transformation using the creator's character level for BAB. If that's a rule, you'll probably see a ton of UMD builds in PFS buying them early :)

Personally, I like to use Creator's Deity's weapon, but wand-wielder's BAB & Wisdom - maximum flavor, maximum utility.

The only problem with this view is that you use "minimum required to cast" casting stat to determine the DC of spells cast from wands. Why would you use creator's stats for 1 limiting factor, but user's stats for another limiting factor?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Bigdaddyjug wrote:
The only problem with this view is that you use "minimum required to cast" casting stat to determine the DC of spells cast from wands. Why would you use creator's stats for 1 limiting factor, but user's stats for another limiting factor?

That's a good question, although as I was reading I thought you were going to ask "Why use the minimum required to cast for the spell's effect when it only says to use it for the DC?" Quite simply, there's no actual rules to use here.

Why would I use the user's statistics? Because the spell is under their direction, controlled and used by them. It's not fire and forget like a fireball. That implies that their force of will and combat skill affect the use of it. The fact that it uses BAB at all, instead of simply caster level, does the same.

It's not decisive, but it leads us to a reasonable conclusion. And without having to invent extra rules (such as what BAB to use for a scroll's creator).

Silver Crusade

I accept your argument as reasonably plausible and would not be surprised if you were correct.


Majuba wrote:
It's not decisive, but it leads us to a reasonable conclusion. And without having to invent extra rules (such as what BAB to use for a scroll's creator).

You keep saying 'scroll' when the OP is about 'wand'. This is relevant since scrolls have different rules.


DM's call. I would probably have the weapon resemble the user's faith, but have stats determined by the creator (at minimum BAB/caster level for when the spell could be cast, etc).

Shadow Lodge

I could see it go either way, but must point out:

seebs wrote:
What happens if it's used by someone who doesn't venerate a deity?
Magic Weapon wrote:
A cleric without a deity gets a weapon based on his alignment. A neutral cleric without a deity can create a spiritual weapon of any alignment, provided he is acting at least generally in accord with that alignment at the time.

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