[Custom Archetype] Hookmaster - looking for impressions


Homebrew and House Rules


Hey, I created this custom archetype for the Cavalier class as a variant for a (custom) race I'm designing.

It's here!

I wanted to get a few impressions on a couple of things about it:

a) Is trading Mount (roughly worth a bit over 4 feats or so by my calculations) + 2 feats a fair trade for the chain tricks? Consider chain trick feats and abilities only apply to the target of your challenge.

b) Is the fact that chain tricks apply only to the target to your challenge a disruptive thing? In my mind, it's simple to understand you may act as though as you had Improved Trip when interacting with your opponent, but it might be a little too tedious to track which trick is active + who is the target + which parts apply to the target and which don't.

c) Would it be better if I remove the Challenge requirement and make chain tricks prepared through a full-round action?

d) Do you like the niche of the class? It's basically a versatile maneuver master with a 15 ft death zone around it, balanced by the fact it cannot further improve its maneuvers due to the temporal feats not functioning as prerequisites, and also a huge weakness to sunder and disarm and such.


I'm a fan of hooked weapons and chain weapons, so you have my support.

* I only briefly looked at the archetype - I find the choice of class for the concept odd, not because it forgoes Mount (I'm all for infantry or non-mounted Cavaliers) but because it is so specifically mountaineering based, and the jump from spelunking/mountaineering to whirling deathchains is just a little too neat.

* It definitely shows in your writeup that you have a passion for this concept, and have thought about some of the contingencies.

* If I had more time I'd check out the chain attack mechanics. I definitely like the sound of Thresh and Yank…but thresh seems lackluster.

* Even though I think another choice of class would be better, I do like that your ability trades are thematically similar to the abilities they replace…

* Why is the damage listed as for Small size…? [EDIT - I see now this is for a custom race, which is likely small.]

Sorry I don't really have that much constructive to add...


Any feedback is constructive!

What class do you think would work better as base? I'm thinking going full hog and making this an alternate class to the Cavalier. I like keeping Cav because Tactician and Banner work nicely for the lead guide feel. The class is missing a ton of movement and defense though, perhaps it should mod the fighter ranger?

I'm thinking of modifying Thresh - removing the attack bonus for feats for clarity of reading.

I'm thinking I'll remove challenge as a condition for chain tricks and make them preparable like spells, but easily switchable on the go. Basically a buff. I'd trade it off by removing some boons.


Major update!

It got much more simplified, a good boost in power-level without getting broke.

Any feedbax?

PS: Same link!


I have criticisms in the form of questions.

Flash challenge is weird. How often will the climb skill check be better than the normal CMB? Perhaps this will be true often if you are playing a strength build and have skill focus(climb) but I really doubt its usefulness otherwise. Or am I missing something about the way this is written? Do you mean that your ranks in climb maybe be substituted for BAB? Doesn't this class have full BAB anyways (noting that you can't have more ranks in a skill than your class level)? I will also note that flash challenge should contain the information about increasing the maximum size of combat maneuver targets rather than that information only being in the chain of duty class feature.

I also feel like this might be better as a fighter? That seems like the better fit thematically and you can easily justify throwing more skills at that class due to the sharp reduction in weapon and armor proficiencies. And nothing about this class screams "knight order" to me. Do you just like the leader-y abilities of the cavalier?

How does grip trick work? Do you know all the grip tricks? Should there be something stopping people from changing their grip trick as a free action more than once per round? Otherwise, I would always switch back to jam when my turn is ending. I actually don't like that this is tied to drawing a weapon for that matter. I think it might be better if the action to switch was a free action once per round and a move action otherwise (i.e. to switch a second or third time).


Thanks for reading it through and for the really helpful comments.

1. You cannot have more ranks in a skill than your hit dice, but you can have a higher skill bonus. Considering that hitting with a combat maneuver is nigh impossible at higher levels, I thought the boost would be welcome. However, I can see this as needless overcomplication - I'll just make the challenge grant CMB outright (equal to 1/2 of char level). I'll also move the size modifier to CMs to Flash Challenge.

2. Shrug, probably better as fighter, considering you probably want Armor Training I and good Reflex saves. I'll ponder it. I do like it as a non-standard cavalier though - not all cultures have traditional knights. Again, maybe this would be best as fighter so I'll think about it.

3. Good catch on the free action thing, I probably want it to be a swift action so it's a bigger commitment.

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