Globe of invulnerability - contradiction between being a emanation centered on you and being immobile


Rules Questions

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.
Globe of Invulnerability, Lesser wrote:


Globe of Invulnerability, Lesser

School abjuration; Level sorcerer/wizard 4

Casting Time 1 standard action

Components V, S, M (a glass or crystal bead)

Range 10 ft.

Area 10-ft.-radius spherical emanation, centered on you

Duration 1 round/level (D)

Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance no

An immobile, faintly shimmering magical sphere surrounds you and excludes all spell effects of 3rd level or lower. The area or effect of any such spells does not include the area of the lesser globe of invulnerability. Such spells fail to affect any target located within the globe. Excluded effects include spell-like abilities and spells or spell-like effects from items. Any type of spell, however, can be cast through or out of the magical globe. Spells of 4th level and higher are not affected by the globe, nor are spells already in effect when the globe is cast. The globe can be brought down by a dispel magic spell. You can leave and return to the globe without penalty.

Note that spell effects are not disrupted unless their effects enter the globe, and even then they are merely suppressed, not dispelled.

If a given spell has more than one level depending on which character class is casting it, use the level appropriate to the caster to determine whether lesser globe of invulnerability stops it.

and

Magic chapter wrote:


An emanation spell functions like a burst spell, except that the effect continues to radiate from the point of origin for the duration of the spell. Most emanations are cones or spheres.

So the first bolded part in the spell description say that it is a emanation centered on the caster. And the magic chapter say that if the center point of an emanation move the emanation move (classical examples, magic circle against evil and the cone shaped emanation of Detect magic).

The second bolded part say that the spell is immobile.

So one of the two things is wrong.

Either globe of invulnerability move with the caster or it is an emanation centered on the space in which the caster was when the spell was cast and don't move.


It is centred on you when you cast it. It remains centred where you were if you move.


Or -

It's an emanation centered on the caster and disallows the caster from moving.

Liberty's Edge

Umbral Reaver wrote:
It is centred on you when you cast it. It remains centred where you were if you move.
PRD wrote:


Detect Scrying
Area 40-ft.-radius emanation centered on you
...
Magic Circle against Evil
Area 10-ft.-radius emanation from touched creature

The other emanations move around. So either this spell isn't an emanation or it is not centered on you.

Or, as Bill say, it will disallow you from moving.


This one says it's immobile. So the most logical reading is that the emanation is centered on the point in space you occupy at the time of casting, then stays there even if you move. The spell says you are allowed to exit and re-enter, thus it does not disallow you from moving. While most emanations may move with the creature they are cast upon, this one is simply different.


Since it will stop an Air Bubble spell, I think you'll suffocate if you stay in it long enough...

;)

Scarab Sages

1 person marked this as a favorite.

It does say you can leave from and return to the globe (at end of the 1st paragraph), so the "cannot move" is definitely out. And if you can move in and out I'd say it does not move with you. This one I've always understood as a "burst", it stays there once you cast it.


Berti Blackfoot wrote:

... if you can move in and out I'd say it does not move with you.

Indeed, if it moved with you and stayed centered on you, then attempting to enter or leave the sphere would be downright comical.


I think the problem here is general versus specific. Diego is right that normally an emanation would follow you (general), but I think this particular spell has text that support it as being a specific exception to this general rule (specific).


1 person marked this as a favorite.

There is a difference between an exception and a contradiction.

Liberty's Edge

The problem is there is no reason to make it a exception.
Make it a spread with a range of 0 instead of being centered on you and it work perfectly.


I had been looking for any references to moving and apparently missed being able to move in and out.

I think the most reasonable interpretation is that it's an emanation centered on a space that the caster occupies, not the actual caster. The "centered on you" was the most succinct way to describe that the spell must be cast with the caster at the center point, at the caster's current location rather than some other range.

Liberty's Edge

I thought it was tongue in check. :P

Sovereign Court

The actual text of the spell is perfectly clear about how it works, is it not? It's immobile and you can move in and out of it.

If that contradicts Emanations, this is obviously a case of a specific ability overriding a general rule. No reason to lose sleep.


Ascalaphus wrote:

The actual text of the spell is perfectly clear about how it works, is it not? It's immobile and you can move in and out of it.

If that contradicts Emanations, this is obviously a case of a specific ability overriding a general rule. No reason to lose sleep.

Yup. The spell describes perfectly how it works. And if it goes against the normal rules, then the only explanation is that it is an exception (aka specific trumphing general).


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

must be awkward with the spell "flinging" off into space since it doesn't follow the planet you're on...


Diego Rossi wrote:

The problem is there is no reason to make it a exception.

Make it a spread with a range of 0 instead of being centered on you and it work perfectly.

Emanations and Spreads work differently.

Spreads can go around corners.

I'm still not seeing what your problem with it is. It is NOT a general rule of emanations that they move with the point of origin. It doesn't say that in the Magic chapter that I can find.

It just so happens that the majority of emanations DO move with the PoO.

Spoiler:
Hehe. Funny acronyms.


Bandw2 wrote:
must be awkward with the spell "flinging" off into space since it doesn't follow the planet you're on...

[insert immovable rod discussion]

Liberty's Edge

Rynjin wrote:
Diego Rossi wrote:

The problem is there is no reason to make it a exception.

Make it a spread with a range of 0 instead of being centered on you and it work perfectly.

Emanations and Spreads work differently.

Spreads can go around corners.

I'm still not seeing what your problem with it is. It is NOT a general rule of emanations that they move with the point of origin. It doesn't say that in the Magic chapter that I can find.

It just so happens that the majority of emanations DO move with the PoO.

** spoiler omitted **

I miswrote spread instead of emanation.

Actually plenty of emanations don't move, the problem is that they are centered on a point in space, not a person. Emanations that are centered on a person or a object move with it.

If the emanation don't move with the creature on which it is centered it is not centered on the creature at all.
Maybe it is not a big thing but it is totally inconsistent.


It is consistent.

It is centered on the creature AT THE TIME OF CASTING.

Many emanations are mobile, moving with said caster.

Globe of Invulnerability is not.

It would be inconsistent if it didn't have that sentence that said "It is immobile" and yet we were told by a dev or it was FAQ'd to be so.

As-is, it's an exception to the general way most emanations function.

I really don't see a problem with it, and there's no rules confusion here: You know exactly how it works, you just don't seem to like the way it's worded.

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