acrobatics to jump ... confusion at my table


Rules Questions

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Grand Lodge

I am still having a hard time, with this "all jumping is erratic, and uncontrolled" thing.

Something must be misread somewhere.


blackbloodtroll wrote:

I am still having a hard time, with this "all jumping is erratic, and uncontrolled" thing.

Something must be misread somewhere.

The text I quoted in the beginning is directly from the PRD. For some reason people think I'm defending a clearly screwey rule because I'm pointing out it's what the rule book says.

Grand Lodge

I think I may check the updated PDF.

The PRD is not updated as often as we had hoped it would be.


Simon Legrande wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:

I am still having a hard time, with this "all jumping is erratic, and uncontrolled" thing.

Something must be misread somewhere.

The text I quoted in the beginning is directly from the PRD. For some reason people think I'm defending a clearly screwey rule because I'm pointing out it's what the rule book says.

Yup... People really need to learn that there's a difference between stating what you believe RAW is and stating what you think the rule should be. I doubt that anyone is satisfied with a rule that states that you can't jump less than your check, but if that is what the rule say, then it is RAW.


blackbloodtroll wrote:

I think I may check the updated PDF.

The PRD is not updated as often as we had hoped it would be.

The site notes that it contains all errata through 1/22/14. If something has been changed since then, then it will take its place.

Grand Lodge

Hmm, there is nothing noting you must move the entirety of your Acrobatics check, as a horizontal jump.

I am carefully reading through, and am just not seeing it.


blackbloodtroll wrote:

Hmm, there is nothing noting you must move the entirety of your Acrobatics check, as a horizontal jump.

I am carefully reading through, and am just not seeing it.

PRD wrote:
For a running jump, the result of your Acrobatics check indicates the distance traveled in the jump (and if the check fails, the distance at which you actually land and fall prone). Halve this result for a standing long jump to determine where you land.

I agree that it doesn't say "must", but it also doesn't say "can". It only says distance = jump check.

Grand Lodge

Then there is room for interpretation.


Simon Legrande wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:

Hmm, there is nothing noting you must move the entirety of your Acrobatics check, as a horizontal jump.

I am carefully reading through, and am just not seeing it.

PRD wrote:
For a running jump, the result of your Acrobatics check indicates the distance traveled in the jump (and if the check fails, the distance at which you actually land and fall prone). Halve this result for a standing long jump to determine where you land.
I agree that it doesn't say "must", but it also doesn't say "can". It only says distance = jump check.

I think this could pretty much be completely cleared up if they left the line about the standing long jump out.

Early in that same paragraph it reads:

Quote:
The base DC to make a jump is equal to the distance to be crossed (if horizontal) or four times the height to be reached (if vertical).

The way I'm reading that is, you need to meet or exceed the DC to clear a jump of this length. Nothing about you actually going as far as your jump check. Jumping as far as your jump check with a running long jump makes sense, but it doesn't for anything else.

I don't want to see the situation where someone can't jump because their acrobatics is so high their minimum jump distance is longer than their movement speed.

Liberty's Edge

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Simon Legrande wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:

Hmm, there is nothing noting you must move the entirety of your Acrobatics check, as a horizontal jump.

I am carefully reading through, and am just not seeing it.

PRD wrote:
For a running jump, the result of your Acrobatics check indicates the distance traveled in the jump (and if the check fails, the distance at which you actually land and fall prone). Halve this result for a standing long jump to determine where you land.
I agree that it doesn't say "must", but it also doesn't say "can". It only says distance = jump check.

It doesn't say "must" because a character doesn't actually jump 20 feet to clear a 5-foot gap. And yes, this is a RAW interpretation, despite what your protestations may be.


Suichimo wrote:
Simon Legrande wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:

Hmm, there is nothing noting you must move the entirety of your Acrobatics check, as a horizontal jump.

I am carefully reading through, and am just not seeing it.

PRD wrote:
For a running jump, the result of your Acrobatics check indicates the distance traveled in the jump (and if the check fails, the distance at which you actually land and fall prone). Halve this result for a standing long jump to determine where you land.
I agree that it doesn't say "must", but it also doesn't say "can". It only says distance = jump check.

I think this could pretty much be completely cleared up if they left the line about the standing long jump out.

Early in that same paragraph it reads:

Quote:
The base DC to make a jump is equal to the distance to be crossed (if horizontal) or four times the height to be reached (if vertical).

The way I'm reading that is, you need to meet or exceed the DC to clear a jump of this length. Nothing about you actually going as far as your jump check. Jumping as far as your jump check with a running long jump makes sense, but it doesn't for anything else.

I don't want to see the situation where someone can't jump because their acrobatics is so high their minimum jump distance is longer than their movement speed.

The first two sentences and the last two sentences just don't seem to me like they belong together. In my opinion, it should either be the first two or the last two. I don't see the point of putting a DC on something you're going to just say check = distance for. Conversely, I don't see the point of saying check = distance on something you're going to assign a set DC to. Do one or the other, there is absolutely no need for both.


HangarFlying wrote:
Simon Legrande wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:

Hmm, there is nothing noting you must move the entirety of your Acrobatics check, as a horizontal jump.

I am carefully reading through, and am just not seeing it.

PRD wrote:
For a running jump, the result of your Acrobatics check indicates the distance traveled in the jump (and if the check fails, the distance at which you actually land and fall prone). Halve this result for a standing long jump to determine where you land.
I agree that it doesn't say "must", but it also doesn't say "can". It only says distance = jump check.
It doesn't say "must" because a character doesn't actually jump 20 feet to clear a 5-foot gap. And yes, this is a RAW interpretation, despite what your protestations may be.

Seriously? How many times do I have to say "I DON'T AGREE WITH THE RULE" for people to get it? I think it's a poorly written rule, period. I play it the way I think it should be played.


Simon Legrande wrote:


Seriously? How many times do I have to say "I DON'T AGREE WITH THE RULE" for people to get it? I think it's a poorly written rule, period. I play it the way I think it should be played.

Your rule is bad, and you should feel bad!


FrozenLaughs wrote:
If you are standing next to a 15ft pit; then yes, squares 1,2 and 3 are the pit. A standing jump to square 4 would be DC 30 (twice the distance for no running start) and you would move a total of 20 ft.

This is in violation of the rules. For a standing jump you only get to move half the distance of your result. So if the DC is a 30 and you roll a 30, then you only move 15 feet.

15 feet from Square 0 is Square 3, not 4.

Which means you've landed on air and are now falling.

To safely cross a 15ft pit, you need to get to Square 4.
To move from Square 0 to Square 4, you must move 20 feet.

Which means you need a result of 40 for a standing jump or 20 for a running jump.

Acrobatics wrote:
For a running jump, the result of your Acrobatics check indicates the distance traveled in the jump (and if the check fails, the distance at which you actually land and fall prone). Halve this result for a standing long jump to determine where you LAND.

Bolding and capitalization mine.


Elbedor wrote:
FrozenLaughs wrote:
If you are standing next to a 15ft pit; then yes, squares 1,2 and 3 are the pit. A standing jump to square 4 would be DC 30 (twice the distance for no running start) and you would move a total of 20 ft.

This is in violation of the rules. For a standing jump you only get to move half the distance of your result. So if the DC is a 30 and you roll a 30, then you only move 15 feet.

15 feet from Square 0 is Square 3, not 4.

Which means you've landed on air and are now falling.

To safely cross a 15ft pit, you need to get to Square 4.
To move from Square 0 to Square 4, you must move 20 feet.

Which means you need a result of 40 for a standing jump or 20 for a running jump.

Acrobatics wrote:
For a running jump, the result of your Acrobatics check indicates the distance traveled in the jump (and if the check fails, the distance at which you actually land and fall prone). Halve this result for a standing long jump to determine where you LAND.

Bolding and capitalization mine.

I mistakenly doubled the DC needed, as opposed to halving the distance. Or whatever, it was a bad example. My point was that from the edge of your square, 3 squares to the near edge of the landing square (4) is 20 feet, but only 15ft of it is in the air.

If you imagine it as literal cliffs: stepping off the absolute edge of square 0, 1-2-3, and stepping on to the absolute edge of square 4 is technically a 15ft jump. You would settle to a stop at 20ft. however.

Grid movement screws up that perception, as everything is imagined (or ruled) as center of square to center of square.

Hmmm come to think of it, I have a Monk/Rogue with a 50 move speed... that doesn't need a running start for any jumps, and I could easily beat 50 on most of my jump checks. I wonder how many DMs would let me just anime leap everywhere instead of walking.


If we're going to get technical, then stepping from the last foot of 0 to the first foot of 4 means 16ft of travel; 5+5+5+1 = 16. You cannot move 16 feet with a result of 15. If you somehow leap from the last foot of 0 and travel 15 feet, that puts you on the last foot of 3...which is open air...meaning you are 1 short of the DC so need to make a Reflex Save to catch yourself or else fall.

But see that's the point. The game doesn't measure by the foot. It measures by squares. If you are in Square 0, then the next square is 5 feet away. The square after that is 10 feet away and so on. So to go from 0 to 4, you MUST move yourself 20 feet.

You cannot jump 20 feet with a result of 15 any which way you care to measure it.

And as cool as anime leaping sounds, you can't jump further than you can move.

Edited to fix my math.


I was meaning that hitting or exceeding 50 wouldn't be difficult, and I could just jump to all my positions, or at worst move 10ft and jump the rest. Might be useful, like to flank or avoid AoO.


I'm not sure you can jump through threatened spaces to avoid provoking.

Didn't work for Anakin. :P


Elbedor wrote:

I'm not sure you can jump through threatened spaces to avoid provoking.

Didn't work for Anakin. :P

If you make a jump that is long enough (remember that your vertical height on a horizontal jump is half your horizontal jump length) that you actually jump over the target and all the squares he threatens, then you could pass the target that way... But you still aren't jumping THROUGH threatened squares, so your statement stands :D

Sczarni

Lifat wrote:
Elbedor wrote:

I'm not sure you can jump through threatened spaces to avoid provoking.

Didn't work for Anakin. :P

If you make a jump that is long enough (remember that your vertical height on a horizontal jump is half your horizontal jump length) that you actually jump over the target and all the squares he threatens, then you could pass the target that way... But you still aren't jumping THROUGH threatened squares, so your statement stands :D

Is it half or quarter? I thought the DC for a vertical jump was 4 times that of a horizontal jump (with a running start)? So a 20 foot horizontal jump would be made on an arc that tops out at about 5'?

Liberty's Edge

Simon Legrande wrote:


Seriously? How many times do I have to say "I DON'T AGREE WITH THE RULE" for people to get it? I think it's a poorly written rule, period. I play it the way I think it should be played.

So then why do you continue to argue against that? So you say you play the RAW interpretation that makes sense, yet you come on here and argue a RAW interpretation that is nonsensical.


Krodjin wrote:
Lifat wrote:
Elbedor wrote:

I'm not sure you can jump through threatened spaces to avoid provoking.

Didn't work for Anakin. :P

If you make a jump that is long enough (remember that your vertical height on a horizontal jump is half your horizontal jump length) that you actually jump over the target and all the squares he threatens, then you could pass the target that way... But you still aren't jumping THROUGH threatened squares, so your statement stands :D
Is it half or quarter? I thought the DC for a vertical jump was 4 times that of a horizontal jump (with a running start)? So a 20 foot horizontal jump would be made on an arc that tops out at about 5'?

The unofficial rule is 1/4 unless there's something somewhere that overrules this. So a 40ft leap would clear 10ft at the midpoint. Maybe enough to avoid a medium sized attacker (if we assume he occupies the base 5ft and can reach up another 5ft), but that's the midpoint, so you're coming down 15-20ft on the other side of him. You can't flank from this range unless you have movement left to backtrack once you land.


HangarFlying wrote:
Simon Legrande wrote:


Seriously? How many times do I have to say "I DON'T AGREE WITH THE RULE" for people to get it? I think it's a poorly written rule, period. I play it the way I think it should be played.
So then why do you continue to argue against that? So you say you play the RAW interpretation that makes sense, yet you come on here and argue a RAW interpretation that is nonsensical.

Because this is the RULES FORUM. As I've been told many times, the RULES FORUM is for the RULES. Advice and opinion do not belong on the RULES FORUM.


Elbedor wrote:
Krodjin wrote:
Lifat wrote:
Elbedor wrote:

I'm not sure you can jump through threatened spaces to avoid provoking.

Didn't work for Anakin. :P

If you make a jump that is long enough (remember that your vertical height on a horizontal jump is half your horizontal jump length) that you actually jump over the target and all the squares he threatens, then you could pass the target that way... But you still aren't jumping THROUGH threatened squares, so your statement stands :D
Is it half or quarter? I thought the DC for a vertical jump was 4 times that of a horizontal jump (with a running start)? So a 20 foot horizontal jump would be made on an arc that tops out at about 5'?
The unofficial rule is 1/4 unless there's something somewhere that overrules this. So a 40ft leap would clear 10ft at the midpoint. Maybe enough to avoid a medium sized attacker (if we assume he occupies the base 5ft and can reach up another 5ft), but that's the midpoint, so you're coming down 15-20ft on the other side of him. You can't flank from this range unless you have movement left to backtrack once you land.

Oh... Right. It is 1/4, not 1/2... Silly me.


Elbedor wrote:

If we're going to get technical, then stepping from the last foot of 0 to the first foot of 4 means 16ft of travel; 5+5+5+1 = 16. You cannot move 16 feet with a result of 15. If you somehow leap from the last foot of 0 and travel 15 feet, that puts you on the last foot of 3...which is open air...meaning you are 1 short of the DC so need to make a Reflex Save to catch yourself or else fall.

But see that's the point. The game doesn't measure by the foot. It measures by squares. If you are in Square 0, then the next square is 5 feet away. The square after that is 10 feet away and so on. So to go from 0 to 4, you MUST move yourself 20 feet.

You cannot jump 20 feet with a result of 15 any which way you care to measure it.

And as cool as anime leaping sounds, you can't jump further than you can move.

Edited to fix my math.

Agreed, the DC should be 16, because you don't really want to clear 15ft, you want to clear 15ft and a little bit. Considering PF's rounding rules, it makes sense that one would reasonably set the DC to clear the pit at 16.

I'm fairly certain that EVERYONE will agree that to move from square 0 to square 4 while jumping over squares 1, 2, and 3 you have to MOVE 20ft. However as has been mentioned numerous times before, the actual distance being JUMPED is the 15ft gap between 0 and 4.
Imagine if you will, I'm in square 0. Assuming I don't completely fill square 0 (because I'm not some hideous 5ft cube-beast), I'm probably standing somewhere around the middle of square 0. If I'm going to cross that pit, I'm going to move about 2.5ft to the edge between squares 0 and 1, jump the 15 (and a little) ft gap from 1-3, land close to the edge between squares 3 and 4 (inside of square 4 because of the little extra) and then move another 2.5ft to the center of square 4. I have just moved a total of 20ft by jumping across a 15ft gap. As a GM, I would err on the side of distance travelled+1 when setting jump DCs because in reality I'd rather jump a distance of 16ft and clear the 15ft pit than have to jump 15ft from cliff edge to cliff edge.

On the matter of over-jumping, to some (albeit small) degree it kind of makes sense. If I run and do an all-out jump, it's probably not going to be all that well controlled. On the other hand, if I make a standing jump, I can put more thought and control into it. If I am a jumper with lots of skill, I probably know how far I can jump. If I know I can easily clear a certain distance, I'm not going to jump from the edge of the cliff, I'm going to start my jump earlier. If I'm jumping a 10ft space, and I know I can jump on average about 20ft. I'm going to start my jump when I'm 5ft away from the pit, because that should land me roughly 5ft on the other side. Real-life jumpers (long-jumpers and high-jumpers) have a general sense of how far/high they can jump but they don't ever know exactly how far they're going to go. This is represented by the randomness presented by rolling a die for the skill check. Sometimes you go a little further, sometimes you come up a little shorter.
In summation, my argument is just that RAW aren't entirely ridiculous. Are they silly, sure. Is it be dangerous to play PF with RAW, you bet it is! As a player, my logic is this:
*if my skill is low, I'm going to have to run and hope I roll high enough to clear
*if my skill is mid-range, I might run and hope I don't go too far or stand and hope I go far enough
*if my skill is high, I can probably make most jumps without running so I'll make standing jumps
*a jump is made as part of a move action, roll your check, see how much distance your jump will clear, subtract the space to be crossed, say that half the remainder of the distance is about where you started your jump and the other half is about where you land
As a GM, I'm with Simon, I use house rules for judging "reasonable" jumps so that players go about the distance they want; sometimes they don't for dramatic effect. I'm all for the house rule of "Making a controlled jump" by imposing a penalty to the check or letting a player "Take 0" for a skill they'll auto-succeed on any roll.
Playing RAW, you jump exactly as many feet as you roll.


gourry187 wrote:

given the following example ...

GGGG---GG where G is the ground and - is empty
123456789

assuming a running start

1) is the DC based on the gap jumped over [5,6,7] (DC15) or the distance to the next Box of ground [5,6,7,8] (DC20)?

2) when determining movement, does the jumped distance count against a characters total movement? moving from 1to9 equal 40' movement?

3) does landing at the end of a long jump end your move action or can you continue provided you have movement available?

4) using acrobatics happens during a move action so if a double move is required to jump a distance, does it need 2 checks?

The following is obviously just my opinion =)

1) The "base DC to make a jump is equal to the distance to be crossed" seems clear to me. If you're trying to cross a 15' gap, the base DC is 15 (or double that without a running start).
Again, it's distance to be crossed, not total traveled. Of course you have to pay movement for the square you're entering, but you aren't required to be airborne to the furthest corner of it.

2) Yes.

3) Continue moving. I've never seen anything like 'finishing a jump ends your move' or such.

4) No.
____________________

Now on to the realm of whimsy...
I feel that the DC calculation method is clearly set out and straight forward. Moreover, it's plenty harsh enough for the regular Joe's who couldn't devote a lot towards Acrobatics.

Take for example average Joe in full plate. Dex 11, no skill ranks or gear towards Acrobatics. He gets the double whammy of -6 ACP and -4 for speed 20, giving him a -10 net on those jump checks.
Now imagine him, from a sanding start and in a calm (ie non-combat) setting, attempting the death defying feat of leaping six inches!!
DC= 0.5 (*2 for the standing start) = DC 1!
He takes 10 (-10 for the armor and speed) and... Fails.
Finding he can never calmly jump six inches, he rolls the dice instead.
Half the time he makes it!
A quarter of the time he can attempt the DC 20 reflex save to struggle on.
And a whopping quarter of the time he falls flat on his face.

Now are you the kind of guy that looks at this and says; "Hmmmm, too easy. Make it a DC 11 (for that square he has to enter), so that way he fails each and every time, even on a natural 20!" ???

Do you know what else leaping over a six inch gap is known as?
Walking.

Grand Lodge

Bit of a necro, I see.


Yeah, a bit of one. heh

Was any conclusion reached though? Doesn't seem to be the case.


The rules are somewhat contradictory.
Rule A: "base DC to make a jump is equal to the distance to be crossed"
It is a DC 15 Acrobatics check to cross a 15 foot gap.

Rule B: "For a running jump, the result of your Acrobatics check indicates the distance traveled in the jump"
Roll acrobatics and if you get a 15 you travel 15 feet and land in the pit, and if you get a 30 you overshoot and land somewhere uncontrollably.

Rule A is the one I'd prefer to use.


When Pass or Fail matters, I go with A.

When distance matters, I go with B.

For example, if a character needs to jump a 15' gap, I set the DC to 15. It doesn't matter if the player gets 100 on the roll, they cleared the 15'.

If a character is trying to see how far they jump, but jumping too short isn't a failure, then I call for a jump check to see how far they make it.

This can be used when competing in a long jump, seeing how far one can jump out before landing in water and beginning to swim, or to jump over a bunch of squares of difficult terrain (flat stuff, like loose rocks). In these cases the character wants to jump as far as possible, but does not suffer anything from being short of his or her goal.


Teenagers From Outer Space had a "succeed by too much and it causes problems" rule.

As far as I know, no such rule exists, even potentially, anywhere else in Pathfinder. So I reject out of hand the idea that beating the DC by too much will cause you problems.


Komoda wrote:

When Pass or Fail matters, I go with A.

When distance matters, I go with B.

That's reasonable, but it's a bit odd that it seems to be way easier to jump four squares using rule A than rule B. I suppose the fear of falling might motivate you to try a bit harder?


Matthew Downie wrote:
The rules are somewhat contradictory.

It's only contradictory if you interpret "the distance to be crossed" one way. If you interpret it the other way, it isn't contradictory at all.

ABCD

You are standing at A and need to cross to D. A pit exists at B and C. What is the distance you must cross? 10ft or 15ft?

I'd say 15 since that is how far you have to move in order to cross from A to D. So the DC of the jump is 15.

Simple enough and doesn't contradict anything. I really don't see a need to complicate it more than that.


You do have to move 15' to enter a space 3 squares away. If you are only jumping over 2 of them, you only need to jump 10'.

Grand Lodge

What kind of gap is a DC 5 Acrobatics check, in your opinion?


The Elbedor system is fairly clear - jumping over a 5 foot gap is a 10 foot crossing, DC 10.

Does that seem too difficult? I'd expect the average person with no acrobatics training to be able to jump over a 5 foot gap from a standing start while doing the real world equivalent of taking 10, but not over a 10 foot gap under the same circumstances.


It is not easier to jump anything with the ways that I set the DC. They are exactly the same. The only thing is one looks for the exact distance jumped while the other looks to jump enough.

If you are counting squares rather than feet, you count the squares that you are jumping over, not the one you start in, or the one you end in.

But that is just a simplified measurement. A 10' gap can be in three squares. It could start 2.5' into square 1, take up all of square 2, and end 2.5' into square 3. It would be the same DC if that 10' gap took up all of square 2 and square 3.

Don't worry about squares when you are setting the DC, just worry about the distance of the gap.

DC = Distance of the gap.
DC does not = amount of squares moved x 5.

Yes, you will still need another 5' of movement to land in a safe square if the gap goes to the edge. That does not mean you must be in the air.


If Your 5' gap = DC 10, standing start = DC 20 = taking 10 untrained = death.

Sovereign Court

Durngrun Stonebreaker wrote:
Imagine the poor monk. At 5th level, with 5 ranks in acrobatics, +3 class skill, +4 from increased speed, +5 from High Jump, and let's say a +3 from Dex. He cannot jump less than twenty feet?

Karma.

That is what he gets for being so awesome.


The idea that you need to jump 10 feet to cross a 5-foot gap is entirely consistent with Pathfinder movement rules, and makes no sense at all in real world terms.

I think I'll use the Komoda interpretation over the Elbedor interpretation. Consistency is overrated.

Grand Lodge

I just wanted to be sure how people were seeing how the rules work.

This is not necessarily agreeing, or disagreeing with anyone.


Komoda wrote:
If Your 5' gap = DC 10, standing start = DC 20 = taking 10 untrained = death.

ABC

Starting from A and jumping to C is a 10ft movement over a 5ft hole in the ground (B). Since the game only measures 5ft increments and since you are assumed to be anywhere in A and then land anywhere in C, you can't measure edge to edge. You have to measure square to square just like every other form of movement. A to C is a 10ft movement every time regardless of whether you walk it, swim it, fly it, or leap it. So you have to jump 10 ft. Successfully jumping 10ft requires a DC 10 Acrobatics check (or 20 if you're doing it from a standstill).

Now would it break the game if you instead make it a DC 5 because the hole is only 5 ft across? Not at all. Ultimately it's a little rules quirk that will see table variation.

Grand Lodge

What would be an example of something that require a DC 5 check?


blackbloodtroll wrote:
What would be an example of something that require a DC 5 check?

Don't step on a crack, or you'll break your mothers back.

It is pretty clear that the actual hole/gap is the DC setting, not the distance moved. The distance moved is 5' over the size of the gap.

I mean technically for a 10' gap I need to jump 10'1" then can continue my movement to move to the 'center' of the grid square I'm now in.


blackbloodtroll wrote:
What would be an example of something that require a DC 5 check?

Under the Elbedor convention? Jumping over a tripwire with a running start I think. Unless tripwires are requires by Pathfinder physics to be 5 feet thick.


Elbedor, no one questions the fact that it is 10' of movement. That doesn't set the DC.

bbangerter, technically, it depends on how you measure it. If it is from the front of the "take off" foot to the back of the "landing" foot, than you need to make a 10' jump. If it measured from the back of the "take off" foot to the front of the "landing" foot you need to measure 10' + length of foot x 2.

It doesn't matter how you want to "officially" measure it. What matters is how big the gap is. That is what sets the DC.

There is nothing in the game that says you must clear the entire square to make the jump. While movement is measured in squares, the items in the square are not. A stool can fit in a square. You can stand in that square, or sit on the stool in that square. You could also jump over that stool. But the stool is only 2' wide. So the DC to jump over it would be 8 (2 x 4). It would not be 20 (5 x 4).


I'm not sure where you get the interpretation that the DC is set by the width of the gap only. The DC is based upon the distance you must cross (i.e. move).

Running Jump wrote:
For a running jump, the result of your Acrobatics check indicates the distance traveled in the jump (and if the check fails, the distance at which you actually land and fall prone). Halve this result for a standing long jump to determine where you land.

The result of the check is the distance traveled. If you are trying to move from A to D in order to clear the B/C pit, then you MUST move 15 feet; from A, over B and C, and landing in D. If you are trying to move 15 feet, then you must get a 15+ on the check. A result of 10 only moves you 10 feet, which means you have landed in Square C...which means you are falling into the pit.

Sovereign Court

My take on it is that your DC would be 1+the gap size, so that you land on the other side of the gap. From then on you can finish moving into that square by spending normal movement. Since you can't jump beyond your actual movement rate per turn, that should always work.

Example: a 15ft pit. You need to jump 16 feet to actually get to the other side, and you need to have 20ft movement available in total so that you can finish the move into the square on the other side of the pit.

Grand Lodge

Well, you could be right, or that could represent the distance whilst actually jumping, which would mean the 5ft. gap, is the movement that you are actually considered "jumping".

So, starting square, and the square you land on, are not considered movement in which are "jumping".

This is an alternate interpretation, but I believe both are valid.


Elbedor wrote:
If you are trying to move from A to D in order to clear the B/C pit, then you MUST move 15 feet; from A, over B and C, and landing in D.

You're moving 15 feet, but you only need to be in the air for ten of them.

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