Whip Thug Build


Advice


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I've been toying with this build for a while now and wouldn't mind having opinions/comments/advices from this board.

The general ideas revolves around whips, intimidate, damage dealing and debuffs. I basically wanted to have more versatility out of a melee build. The 5 levels dip into fighter are accelerating the BAB progression for whip feats but also bring other goodies (medium armor & shield, armor/weapon training, extra feats).

Half-Orc
Str +2
Intimidate +2
Darkvision
Sacred Tattoo (I'm not a big fan of Orc Ferocity)
City-raised (Gives whip proficiency and levels of Fighter brings martial anyways)

Ability score
Str 18 (+2 racial)
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 10
Cha 10

Levels
1. Thug 1 (Skill Focus (Intimidate), Frightening)
This brings my Intimidate to +9, success = at least 2 rounds of shaken.
Whip doesn't threaten and is useless vs armor but can trip/disarm at 15ft.
Otherwise a backup weapon can be used (shortbow, rapier, whatever).
Sneak Attack +1d6.

2. Thug 2 (Weapon Training (Whip), Evasion)
The rogue talent gives Weapon Focus for free

3. Figther 1 (Power Attack, Whip Mastery, lots of proficiencies)
Now that whip starts to really be useful. It still does not threaten but at least it is a reliable source of damage and doesn't trigger AoO.
Power Attack is self explanatory.
I can now use a Spiked shield to threaten with a shield bash.
I can also trade Evasion for Medium/Heavy armor.

4. Fighter 2 (Enforcer)
Since a whip can deal non-lethal damage, Enforcer really extends the shaken duration of a demoralize check. And 4+ rounds of shaken = 1 round of frightened, thanks to Thug's Frightening.

5. Fighter 3 (Dazzling Display, Armor Training)
Dazzling Display gives a full-round option but it is mostly a requirement for Shatter Defenses.
Armor Training + Mithral Breastplate = High AC + Evasion at full speed.

6. Fighter 4 (Improved Whip Mastery)
Now that whip threatens at 10 ft.

7. Fighter 5 (Shatter Defenses, Weapon Training (Flails))
BAB is now +6/+1 so 2 attacks on a full-round. First deals non-lethal with Enforcer for shaken, second causes target to be flat-footed (only to me) until the end of my next round. Then sneak attack at will.
Weapon training gives a boost on attack/damage.

8. Thug 3 (Brutal Beating)
Sneak Attack +2d6
I can also forgo 1d6 of sneak attack for sickening debuff.

9. Thug 4 (Combat Reflexes, Strong Impression, Uncanny Dodge)
Finally making use of the whip's threat range.
Strong Impression gives a boost to Intimidate

10+. All Thug levels, improving sneak attack and critical feats for more damage/debuff. At level 13, BAB is +11/+6/+1 so the combo becomes (provided everything hits): Enforcer + Shaken / Flat-footed / Sicken + Sneak Attack. Eventually Sneaking Precision can also apply one critical feat effect (Tiring/Exhausting Critical) when target is hit twice by sneak attack in a round.


i have a simolar build but i use lore warden archtype fro expertise and boost to cmb.
i also go shadow dancer .
lore warden 1-4
thug\scout 5-8
shadow dancer 9-12
thug scout X

this allow so many options for sneak attacks.....
dirty tricks with decent cmb for blind.
spring attack for flanks debuff and a cool looking character.


I like the Scout idea. Losing Uncanny Dodge and Improved Uncanny Dodge for more sneak attacks is probably a good tradeoff. Opening with a charge + sneak attack, then subsequent rounds 5 foot step + full-attack. The 10 ft movement + sneak attack with the whip's 15 ft range isn't bad but prevents full-attacks so I wouldn't use it as much but I can see cases where it's be nice.

I'm not too sure about the Lore Warden though. Armor Training 1 gives me full speed with a medium armor, which allows acrobatics to work. And a Mithral Medium Armor makes Evasion and Improved Evasion work too. You are basically trading that for knowledge skills, +2 CMB/CMD and Combat Expertise, a requirement for Improved Feint and Improved Dirty Tricks. I really considered maneuvers but they usually prevent full-attacks so I changed my mind.

Your build is definitely more stealthy/skill-based so I can see why Shadowdancer is interesting for you (hide in plain sight, darkvision, uncanny dodge take 2). I have a more "brute force" approach so stealth isn't on my skill set.

Thanks though, I'll reuse the Scout for sure!


if so, than another offer:
take 1 fighter than scout\thug 4 than the rest of fighter levels.
why ?
learn charging throw.
this way you can sneak with :
1) flank
2) win init
3) move 10' and attack
4) move 10' and throw a needle that sneaks.
5) learn to use bluff so you can move+sneak once .

i find that normally full attacking is a myth with a rogue - so i prefer to build a heavy str power attacking rogue over a dex machine.
vital strike with a power att sneak can be nice.

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