Blessed Hammer-Any good?


Advice

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Scarab Sages

Deific obedience and switching to exalted at 7 seems like a solid plan for this. Expanded portfolio would give you access to a second domain.


Deific obedience is prolly solid yet unspectacular (and I think you need to be transporting ananvil if I recall correctly) I'll have to look into exalted I hear it's the cheese ...

Edit: For the purpose of PFS Exalted seems sorta subpar. You invest in two tax feats and the biggest gain is the 5 level Expanded prtfolio ability which comes at 11th so that seems unexciting.

Scarab Sages

Walter has a pretty good guide to it here

Edit: you have a point about the feat tax, but it does give you a bonus to hit, a free greater magic weapon on your warhammer each day from the exalted boon, and some nice additional stuff. Granted, you only get expanded portfolio at 11, but it's a great capstone for PFS, and if you ever play seeker it gets better at 12 when you get DR 10 as a free action.

2nd edit: an anvil weighs 5 pounds, and for PFS purposes, you are assumed to have completed the obedience each day without needing to RP it.


Sorry for the necro but today I stumbled across the Nature Fang Druid Archetype which seems like a good fit for Blessed hammer.

Nature Fang gives you aceess to studied target and more importantly Slayer Talents (in exchange for Wild Shape which we didn't want anyways...) which opens up Ranger Combat Style Feats. Has anyone built something in this direction?
My big ? currently is which combat style would work best for a Warhammer wielder.

Scarab Sages

Alex Mack wrote:


My big ? currently is which combat style would work best for a Warhammer wielder.

I see four options:

Faithful Combat Torag gives power attack and sunder goodness and is thematic with Blessed Hammer.

Natural Weapon will give you Weapon Focus and Vital strike, which opens up the druidic vital strike enhancers.

Sword and Shield will give you some nice shield bashing goodness to combine with your hammer.

Two-handed will give you power attack and cleave, if you feel like using the dwarven cleave feats.

Either way, you pretty much want to be a dwarf for this build. You want the bonus to wisdom, Warhammer proficiency, and slow and steady to help with your eventual stoneplate.

EDIT: I meant power attack. I don't know why I typed pounce in Two-handed.


Imbicatus wrote:
Alex Mack wrote:


My big ? currently is which combat style would work best for a Warhammer wielder.

I see four options:

Faithful Combat Torag gives power attack and sunder goodness and is thematic with Blessed Hammer.

Natural Weapon will give you Weapon Focus and Vital strike, which opens up the druidic vital strike enhancers.

Sword and Shield will give you some nice shield bashing goodness to combine with your hammer.

Sword and Shield doesn't really work out as in order to optimize it you really want to make the shield your primary weapon.

Two-handed will give you pounce and cleave, if you feel like using the dwarven cleave feats.

Either way, you pretty much want to be a dwarf for this build. You want the bonus to wisdom, Warhammer proficiency, and slow and steady to help with your eventual stoneplate.

Thanks for your thoughts Imbicatus.

Torag seems thematic but not that great...

What are the Druidic Vital Stike Enhancers you are talking about here?

Didn't see any pounce abilities for Two Handed but Cleaving sounds like a solid plan for numerous reasons.
a)You have a solid use for move actions in studied target
b)The multiple charge touch spells are strong with Cleave
C) GROWTH DOMAIN is pretty sick with cleaving...

Scarab Sages

Alex Mack wrote:


What are the Druidic Vital Stike Enhancers you are talking about here?

Faerie's Strike, Grasping Strike, and Winter's Strike.

They aren't overwhelming, but they do make vital strike a little better by combining a nice debuff with the attack.

Also, sorry bout the pounce mistype. I was thinking power attack, and typed pounce from a brain glitch.


Imbicatus wrote:

They aren't overwhelming, but they do make vital strike a little better by combining a nice debuff with the attack.

Kinda like Grasping Strike and Winter's Strike. Both deliver solid debuffs on free action riders and said Dwarf will likely sport and 18WIS. Too bad they are limited use per day and require vital strike...anyways I'm gonna try and put together a cleave build.

Edit:Pushing assault and Cleave interact favorably or am I mistaken here?


Here's a first draft. It utilizes Growth Domain (+ Dwarven FCB) and Cleaving Feats to deal with mooks. Single targets can be dealt with with via blessed Hammer and high level inflict spells just as handily.
In case neither works out you're still a full caster with an 18 casting stat :).
Defenses should be alright due to shield, heavy armor and barkskin, solid saves and okay HP. Precision is lacking a bit however. Also I'm not sure if Orc Hewer is really needed.

What the build is currently lacking is the ability to apply additional rider effects (Enforcer/Rhime Spell) to a frostbite Hammer. Also Swift action economy might be a bit tight.

Blessed Hammer Build:

Dwarf Nature Fang Druid
STR 16 (10)
DEX 12 (2)
CON 14 (2)
WIS 18 (10)
INT 10 (0)
CHA 5 (-4)
Domain: Growth -->Additionally powered up via the Dwarven FCB

Traits:
Glory of Old, Defensive Strategist

Feats
1 Heavy Armor Proficiency
3 Power attack
4 Cleave (Slayer Talent: Combat style)
5 Goblin Cleaver
6 Great Cleave (Slayer Talent: Combat Style)
7 Blessed Hammer
8 Orc Hewer (Slayer Talent: Combat Feat)
9 Steel Soul
10 Weapon Focus?
11 Divine Interference

An alternative to the proposed build would be to forgoe Blessed Hammer and use a Longspear and Combat Reflexes. This makes cleave a lot better but Druids seem unable to threaten at 5 feet while wielding a longspear as they are not proficient with gauntlets so that complicates thins a bit.

I'm also considering the merits of a Tengu Natural attacker. However I'm not sure how this interacts with frostbite.


Goliath Druid is also quite cool. You transform into giants with your wildshape, and they get to keep using their weaponry.

Scarab Sages

Yeah, Goliath druid is awesome. Especially if you take the Rage Subdomain for barbarian rage + rage powers on top of giant form wildshape.


Imbicatus wrote:

Yeah, Goliath druid is awesome. Especially if you take the Rage Subdomain for barbarian rage + rage powers on top of giant form wildshape.

:) Lot's of STR. So assuming I'm a giant I need a big warhammer correct?

Scarab Sages

Alex Mack wrote:
Imbicatus wrote:

Yeah, Goliath druid is awesome. Especially if you take the Rage Subdomain for barbarian rage + rage powers on top of giant form wildshape.

:) Lot's of STR. So assuming I'm a giant I need a big warhammer correct?

No, your hammer and armor grows with you. You gotta love polymorph effects.


While Goliath Druid is strong I think it's a bit of a late bloomer (at least by PFS standards) for PFS I think I will stick with the Nature Fang and Growth Domain. Growth Domain is just so super busted for battlefield control in the early levels. It starts getting worse at level 9 when you have swift action studied target and Blessed Hammer but it will still be useful.

I really really want to cram Rime Spell into the above build but the only feat I could drop is heavy armor prof but it's worth +3 AC and I'd really like this character to be tanky.

Maybe I'm getting a bit too hung up on the whole cleave engine but it just seems to fit together perfectly with large size and goblin cleaver. Then again as soon as I miss once that's it and the builds to hit isn't spectacular by any standard. Also Druid Spells are pretty good at handling hordes of mooks as well...

Gotta say Nature Fang is one hell of a stellar archetype and enables so many different builds...


I really like this idea. One thing to consider however is that Blessed Hammer doesn't override the need to have a free hand to cast spells with somatic components (unless I missed a FAQ somewhere).

Scarab Sages

PolydactylPolymath wrote:

I really like this idea. One thing to consider however is that Blessed Hammer doesn't override the need to have a free hand to cast spells with somatic components (unless I missed a FAQ somewhere).

Actually it does. The feat allows you to treat your war hammer as a holy symbol.


Worst case scenario, you use the Warhammer two-handed, and you just let go with one hand (a free action) to cast spells. It's then a free action to grab it with that hand again, and there's no statement in the feat (unlike for the Magus) that says you can't be using anything in your offhand to deliver the touch spell.

I am very much looking forward to getting to levels where this guy can make use of this combo. :)


Imbicatus wrote:
PolydactylPolymath wrote:

I really like this idea. One thing to consider however is that Blessed Hammer doesn't override the need to have a free hand to cast spells with somatic components (unless I missed a FAQ somewhere).

Actually it does. The feat allows you to treat your war hammer as a holy symbol.

Actually somatic components and Divine Focus are two different things. Also I'm not sure whether a Druid could use the warhammer as his divine focus see here:

Divine Focus (DF): A divine focus component is an item of spiritual significance. The divine focus for a cleric or a paladin is a holy symbol appropriate to the character's faith. The divine focus for a druid or a ranger is a sprig of holly, or some other sacred plant.

Then again this might be a case of general(above) being overriden by specific (Blessed Hammer).

This does have minor implications for my planned build as I was planning to go with heavy shield but will have to settle for a light shield instead which is an acceptable means of casting.

On a whole I wasn't really planning to cast an awful lot during combat as I'd usually be charging my hammer with Frostbite before fights (like way before...) and then just hit s+$~ with Torag's Icecold breath.

Silver Crusade

It's totally NOT a problem to wield a two handed weapon and cast spells. As stated above, during your turn you let go one hand, cast your spell, then re-grip the weapon. Every Cleric who wields a longspear does this.


Why heavy armor prof at first? Wait until you can afford it IMO. Also all those cleave feats, when cleave is so bad. Take like, spell pen or improved initiative or persistent spell or something .


CWheezy wrote:
Why heavy armor prof at first? Wait until you can afford it IMO. Also all those cleave feats, when cleave is so bad. Take like, spell pen or improved initiative or persistent spell or something .

You can't afford heavy armor at first but in PFS it'll be availabale after 4 scenarios (level 2). While I agree that it would be better to take it at level 3 I have to take Power Attack here as otherwise I can't get the Cleave feats together.

As to Cleave. Cleave is bad agreed. But I think you are missing the point of the build. Growth domain incrases my threatend area to 10 feet as a swift action (and provides me with a virtual 5 ft. step due to allowing me to choose in which direction I grow) and making me large size. I can do this 7 times per day plus one additional times per 2 levels. Now after a succesful attack I can attack anything within reach that is medium size (with Goblin Cleaver) or large (with Orc hewer).

I'm still not entirely sold on this myself however as by the time this combo is fully online (5th) my spells might be better at hitting multiple enemies.

Grand Lodge

Rodinia has Growth Domain. If you are going to use Growth Domain for cleaving a big threatened area you may as well use a reach weapon. Cleave still won't work very well, because foes rarely clump up, but that makes it better. Rodinia tried Cleaving and it just didn't happen very often.

Seriously, the best use for Growth Domain is to get BIG with a reach weapon, so you threaten a 50' diameter. This almost guarantees foes will provoke AoOs during their movement. This is a very effective way to get more attacks.


Rodinia wrote:
Cleave still won't work very well, because foes rarely clump up, but that makes it better.

That's what Goblin Cleaver/Orc Hewer is for:

When using Cleave or Great Cleave, if your initial attack hits, you may take your additional attacks against any creature smaller than you that you threaten; your targets need not be adjacent to one another.

The Longspear shabazz doesn't work out as Druids aren't proficient with them nor gauntlets :( anyway how do you threaten 50ft.?. Also to get any milage out of Combat Reflexes I'd need a 14 DEX (due to the large size DEX penalty).

Edit: Another question for those who recommended the Goliath Druid. If I am wildshaped into a giant (a humanoid) can I grow one step further with the growth domain?


Blessed Hammer works as a Holy Symbol for divine spells requiring a Divine Focus. Druid spells are divine spells which have a Divine Focus component. No worries there.

However, even a small shield wouldn't work. You don't have a free hand when wielding one, even though you can still hold items in that hand. The description for bucklers specifically enables you to cast spells while wearing one, at the price of losing the shield bonus until your next turn. No such language is in place for the small shield. .

Alex Mack wrote:


Edit: Another question for those who recommended the Goliath Druid. If I am wildshaped into a giant (a humanoid) can I grow one step further with the growth domain?

No, for two reasons: Both are Polymorph effects, and both are magical size increases. Magical size increases do not stack, and a creature may only be subject to one polymorph effect at a time.


Looks like forgoing the hammer and sticking with a reach weapon is more advantageous with what I had in mind I'm thinking about following Magda's advice and trying the following:

Reach Build:

Dwarf Nature Fang Druid
STR 16 (10)
DEX 15 (5)
CON 14 (2)
WIS 16 (5)
INT 12
CHA 5 (-4)

Domain: Growth -->Additionally powered up via the Dwarven FCB

Traits:
Glory of Old, Heirloom Weapon (Lucerne Hammer: Proficiency)

Feats
1 Combat Reflexes
3 Heavy Armor Proficiency
4 Slayer Talent Natural Weapon Style: Weapon Focus
5 Toughness/Steel Soul?
6 Vital Strike
7 Grasping Strike
8 Slayer Bonus Combat Feat: Winter’s Strike
9 ?Quicken Spell?
10 Greater Vital Strike
11 Divine Interference?

Lucerne Hammer while large deals 3d6 with Vital Strike that becomes 6d6.

I'm really unsure about the ability scores and feats for this build however.


Remember, dwarves can also have proficiency with boulder helmets to threaten at close range. And would a Longhammer work with Blessed Hammer?


Gilarius wrote:
Remember, dwarves can also have proficiency with boulder helmets to threaten at close range. And would a Longhammer work with Blessed Hammer?

Boulder Helmet would cost a feat and must be crafted from metal so it's likely off limits for Druids. I'm not too concerned about threatening adjacent as ending Growth domain power is essentially a free 5ft. step.

Blessed Hammer specifies it must be a warhammer.

I just discovered another neat trick. The Faithful Sarenrae Combat Style gives you whirlwind attack at level 6 without prerequisites. It could also grant improved Initiative/Nimble Moves at 4th so it offers some other decent options.


Would a spell storing weapon work in conjunction with blessed hammer? I know it would take a lot of spell slots but it might be worth it for the added burst damage.

Scarab Sages

PolydactylPolymath wrote:


No, for two reasons: Both are Polymorph effects, and both are magical size increases. Magical size increases do not stack, and a creature may only be subject to one polymorph effect at a time.

Actually, the Growth Domain power is a transmutation effect, but not a polymorph effect. Also the limitations against size increases are from spells, but the growth domain is a supernatural ability, not a spell or SLA.

Because of those two facts, the growth domain and wildshape do stack RAW. I agree that it's not RAI, and most GMs will ban the combo.

But because of the way the limitations are written, it works.


Imbicatus wrote:
PolydactylPolymath wrote:


No, for two reasons: Both are Polymorph effects, and both are magical size increases. Magical size increases do not stack, and a creature may only be subject to one polymorph effect at a time.

Actually, the Growth Domain power is a transmutation effect, but not a polymorph effect. Also the limitations against size increases are from spells, but the growth domain is a supernatural ability, not a spell or SLA.

Because of those two facts, the growth domain and wildshape do stack RAW. I agree that it's not RAI, and most GMs will ban the combo.

But because of the way the limitations are written, it works.

Yeah but even it would be considered RAW you'd likely have to expect table variation in PFS. Especially as there's a designer staement somewhere on these boards taking a fairly definte stance on the issue.


Imbicatus wrote:
PolydactylPolymath wrote:


No, for two reasons: Both are Polymorph effects, and both are magical size increases. Magical size increases do not stack, and a creature may only be subject to one polymorph effect at a time.

Actually, the Growth Domain power is a transmutation effect, but not a polymorph effect. Also the limitations against size increases are from spells, but the growth domain is a supernatural ability, not a spell or SLA.

Because of those two facts, the growth domain and wildshape do stack RAW. I agree that it's not RAI, and most GMs will ban the combo.

But because of the way the limitations are written, it works.

Right, I was off on the Polymorph bit. But the prohibition on multiple magical size increases still holds. The text (found in the description of Enlarge Person), calls out "magical effects that increase size". SU abilities are magical effects.


The discussion in this thread has inspired me to build Shield Bashing Reach Druid. The details can be found here.


MEGANECRO (sorry, but maybe this would revitalize this discussion):

As of the Healer's Handbook, it seems like Blessed Hammer might have gotten a bit of a boost, due to the Nature Priest Druid archetype.

It helps with the main issues that's been predominant with Blessed Hammer, namely
1) Clerics are the only divine caster (other than Warpriests) that get Warhammer proficiency from their class, but their spell list is less than ideal in regards of touch spells, and
2) Druids, Shamans, etc, all have touch spells, but both lack warhammer proficiency and some of the cleric self buffs that makes being a 3/4 melee combatant a viable option.

Well, Nature Priest gives you your deity's favored weapon proficiency for free, retains wild shape, and lets you choose any domain that your deity has. Torag offers Good/Law (Archon), giving you a long-life low-level buff, and the druid list is full of touchy goodness.

Anyone got any cool ideas for what to do with this archetype? :)


A druid into wildshape might want a style feat which requires improved unarmed strike as a prereq. This archetype saves them one feat.

The nature priest archetype isn't a big enough change to overturn anything, but it could make some character types slightly more optimal.

Pounce, I have no idea what you mean by clerics lacking good touch spells, that's one of their strengths. The first thing I thought after seeing Blessed Hammer was 'Bestow Curse'.

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