Summoner: Breaking maximum number of natural attacks?


Rules Questions


I've gone into a rather heated conversation about the rules behind Natural attacks on the eidolon. To quote the only somewhat relevent section:

Max Attacks Section of Eidolon wrote:
(Max Attacks) indicates the maximum number of natural attacks that the eidolon is allowed to possess at the given level. If the eidolon is at its maximum, it cannot take evolutions that grant additional natural attacks. This does not include attacks made with weapons.

If you can find anything else that can be added as evidence, I'll gladly edit it into this post if possible.

My belief is this section is only intended to be used when calculating the maximum number of inherent natural attacks gained through the spending of evolution points.

My primary contender against this line of thinking believes this is an absolute maximum such that if there is a way to gain more natural attacks, they simply can't work.

1) Can an eidolon gain more natural attacks than its maximum through items? To list items of potential impact:
a-Tentacle Cloak (Temporary added attacks, item-based)
b-Helm of the Mammoth Lord (Permanently added attack, item-based)
c-Cloak of the Manta Ray (Permanent pseudo-tail slap[?])

2) Can an eidolon gain more natural attacks than its maximum through temporal effects granted by being merged with the summoner (high-level or Synthesist)? Assuming the Summoner/Synthesist is multiclassing into:
a) Barbarian (While raging [L. Fiend Totem, L. Beast Totem])
b) Alchemist (While Mutagen[Feral Mutagen])
c) Sorcerer/Dragon Disciple (As a free action[Bite + Claws])

This is assuming the eidolon has the necessary magic item slots open or limbs/heads "free" (does not already have a bite/claw attack attached to said extra limbs)


I would say:
1) yes, it's effectively the item making the natural attack
2) no, merged with the eidolon then you should be held to the eidolon's limit


I agree on 2 with Durngrun. Especially since the eidolon suit goes over your entire body.


I felt the items would definitely work, though what of items that aren't necessarily the thing performing the attack? Examples:
a) Pelt of the Beast (It's on your shoulders, probably isn't biting the opponent for you)
b) Ring of Rat Fangs (It's a ring, definitely not biting for you)

I assume if the eidolon has extra heads which don't have a bite, then they would add additional bite attacks.

As to disallowing other classes, might I add a wrench?

Merge Forms Summoner wrote:
While merged in this way, the summoner is protected from harm and cannot be the target of spells or effects.

Since the wording changes between the Summoner's Merge Forms and the Synthesist's Fused Eidolon, I'll quote the relevant piece for that as well:

Fused Eidolon Synthesist wrote:
Neither the synthesist nor his eidolon can be targeted separately, as they are fused into one creature.

Assuming the summoner fuses with their eidolon in either of the ways mentioned earlier, I believe there are three possible results:

1) The effect fails because it cannot target the summoner.
2) The effect targets the summoner regardless of Merge Forms/Fused Eidolon wording, causing the ability to be wasted/unable to use because the summoner is inside the eidolon.
3) The effect targets the merged unit, granting the summoner-eidolon more natural attacks.


I'm still uncertain how Synthesist interacts with other classes that have acquired methods of gaining claw attacks.

I believe hard-acquired versions do not pass onto the eidolon when merged, such as:

Witch Nails Hex wrote:
The witch’s nails are long and sharp, and count as natural weapons that deal 1d3 points of damage (1d2 for a Small witch).

-Tiefling, Catfolk, or Tengu racial claw attacks.

-Tiefling, kobold, goblin, or Tengu for a racial bite attack.

These are not activated by any sort of action, and thus would be unusable while merged with the eidolon. However, if a summoner were to be merged with an eidolon and had any of the following:

Sorcerer, Draconic Claws Power wrote:
Starting at 1st level, you can grow claws as a free action.
Barbarian, L. Beast Totem wrote:
While raging, the barbarian gains two claw attacks.
Alchemist, Feral Mutagen wrote:
Whenever the alchemist imbibes a mutagen, he gains two claw attacks and a bite attack.

In the case of the sorcerer's bloodline power, I see little reason to disallow its use while merged with an eidolon (beyond the obvious "adds more attacks than the eidolon should be allowed to have").

The other two bring up a new pair of questions:
1) Can a Summoner with levels in Barbarian rage while merged/fused with their eidolon?

2) Can a Summoner with levels in Alchemist imbibe mutagens while merged/fused with their eidolon?

The eidolon isn't an Alchemist, thus it probably would not function for non-Synthesist summoners. For Synthesists, Fused Eidolon defines the entity as both the Summoner and the Eidolon, which could arguably still prevent a summoner from benefitting from their own mutagen because of the wording behind Mutagen.

Alchemist, Mutagen wrote:
a non-alchemist can never gain the benefit of a mutagen


I think in cases where the item makes attacks they work as intended. When the item or ability gives na to the eidolon then the eidolons limit is an absolute maximum.

Mainly for balance reasons the eidolon is already at the extreme end of # of attacks. Allowing for 6+ attacks by level 4 is probably game breaking.

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