Applying GM credit to a first-level character


GM Discussion

4/5

32 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 2 people marked this as a favorite.

Can you apply a GM credit for a higher-level scenario (say, 7-11) to a first-level character with the gold reduced to 500, the way you can when you play a pregen?

4/5 ****

There's been some discussion about this issue recently, but I believe the answer is no. I've gone ahead and hit the FAQ button on your post though, since there's clearly some confusion on this front.

4/5

Thanks! It definitely seems to me like it *should* be legal, even if it doesn't seem to be at the moment.


Would the level one character have access to the more costly chronicle items regardless of fame?


Then you just GM credit miser them to that gold pile and get a potentially powerful item much earlier than most.

4/5

Hmm, when you do it with a pregen you have access to the items. Of course, there are fewer risks involved when applying GM credits but pregen credits come pretty risk-free too.


By my understanding, you can't apply a Chronicle sheet to a PC that doesn't qualify for it yet. However, you can have Chronicle sheets waiting to apply to a PC, and you don't actually have to do any of the associated paperwork until they're actually applied. As such, characters can exist as potential, and by my understanding you can use your current total Fame to spend all your PP and money when you actually write up that PC to play.

For example, I recently started playing a 2nd level PC after applying three Chronicle sheets to him, so he started at 2nd level, with 150 GP from starting funds plus the three scenarios worth of money. By my understanding, I spent that money as if it was all starting funds, and purchased stuff at my current Fame of 6.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
René P wrote:
Then you just GM credit miser them to that gold pile and get a potentially powerful item much earlier than most.

You can already do that by applying a pregen chronicle to a 1st level character. And I'm pretty sure that it doesn't actually grant you any earlier access than you already would have gotten.

Sovereign Court 5/5 *

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

The potentially powerful things from this come not from the items on the sheet (still need the cash for those), but from possible boons that you might get access to.

I think it is perfectly reasonable to not allow GM credit on level 1's from higher level sheets for the reason stated above. A GM is much more likely to know what boons that could apply, than a player playing a pregen. Though it is possible for a player to know ahead of time and play a pregen, it seems less likely than for a GM.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Kigvan wrote:
The potentially powerful things from this come not from the items on the sheet (still need the cash for those), but from possible boons that you might get access to.

There really aren't any boons powerful enough to make that kind of a difference.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I believe in such a case you simply scratch off all items and get the 500 gold. Because a first level would not be eligible for any of the tiers of a 7-11.

Grand Lodge 4/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento

TriOmegaZero wrote:
Kigvan wrote:
The potentially powerful things from this come not from the items on the sheet (still need the cash for those), but from possible boons that you might get access to.
There really aren't any boons powerful enough to make that kind of a difference.

There is one that gives a single 3000 gp item.

At 1st level, that would be kind of massive.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
FLite wrote:

There is one that gives a single 3000 gp item.

At 1st level, that would be kind of massive.

If everyone else were 1st level too, but that kind of party happens pretty rarely in my experience.

Grand Lodge 4/5

LazarX wrote:
I believe in such a case you simply scratch off all items and get the 500 gold. Because a first level would not be eligible for any of the tiers of a 7-11.

Incorrect, for applying a non-first level pregen player credit to a first level PC:

GtPFSOP, page 6 wrote:
You may also opt instead to apply the Chronicle sheets earned with a non-1st-level pregenerated character to a 1st-level character with the amount of gp gained reduced to 500 gp (or 250 gp for characters using the slow advancement track). You do not lose access to any of the Prestige Points, boons, or items listed on the Chronicle sheets that were earned during the adventure.
GtPFSOP, page 29 wrote:
If you play a non-1st-level pregenerated character, you may apply credit from the pregenerated character to one of your 1st-level characters, with the gp gained reduced to 1,398 gp (or 699 gp for slow advancement track characters).

4/5

I'm copy/pasting some arguments I made for this within our local lodge. The first point is just a personal preference, but the last three could be relevant to everyone.

runslikeawelshman wrote:

I don't like GMing high-tier scenarios because I prefer to play at that level and don't want to push my characters toward retirement without getting to play them. Conversely, I don't enjoy playing low-level characters as much so I prefer to build characters up a bit with GM credits before I debut them.

It also seems to me like this would be a good reward for GMs who are running scenarios they don't have a character ready to receive credit for. Since you have to designate which character you're applying your credit to right away then hold the chronicle for them until they reach the appropriate level, you could potentially die before you reach that level and your GM credit is wasted.

Furthermore, it would offer another option for players who are running out of eligible scenarios. If you had few low-tier scenarios left to play, you could GM a higher-tier scenario and build your character up a bit that way.

Lastly, more options for GMs means more people trying out GMing, and that's always a good thing.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/5

runslikeawelshman wrote:
Thanks! It definitely seems to me like it *should* be legal, even if it doesn't seem to be at the moment.

If this does get a positive response, it would be good to understand it it is legal now (and is just unclearly worded) or if it is something that will become legal in season 6.

4/5 *

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Right now, as I read it, if you assign GM credit for a higher-tier Chronicle to an existing character, you hold it and apply it when the character reaches the lowest level of the Chronicle. It is different than the pregen rules, and perhaps they should be standardized, but as it stands, right now you can't do it.

While it might not seem "fair" that pregens keep access to the items from a higher-level scenario, in practice that seems about the only time that people buy things from their Chronicles (well, and partially-charged wands). Anyone who is going to abuse this sort of clause will also be reading scenarios to see what Chronicles they want in advance, etc. Cheaters gonna cheat, so allowing this isn't going to make things worse, and it would add flexibility to GM credit for situations like the OP described.

4/5

I think Lamplighter makes a very good point: although there is potential for abuse, the people who would do so will do it anyway. The benefits outweigh the drawbacks.

4/5

2 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

I'm resurrecting this discussion in light of new information.

Page 38 of the Season 6 Guide to Organized Play added the following text (last paragraph in first column): “A GM may apply credit for running a scenario, module, or Adventure Path in any of the same ways a player can, and must follow the same rules as a player when applying credit to a character.”

Does this mean a GM can now apply credit from a high-tier scenario to a 1st-level character with reduced gold?

Grand Lodge 4/5

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Sounds like it. Makes me pretty happy, even if it doesn't help the couple scenarios I GMed before.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/5

For anyone not aware, a new rule on applying pregen credit (which is now also relevant for GM credit) states:

Quote:
However, any boons must wait to be utilized until the character is of the same level as the subtier on the Chronicle sheet unless otherwise noted.

I'm GMing 'Sins of the Saviours' at the moment; if I apply the credit to a new PC then I'll be waiting to use the boons on the chronicle sheet for a looooong time...

4/5

Haha, that caught my eye too! I can see why they did it but I wonder how necessary it really was. Maybe I just haven't played enough high-tier scenarios with really awesome boons?

Shadow Lodge 4/5 *** Venture-Captain, Michigan—Mt. Pleasant

Well, considering there are several boons that grant free gear or money that would be way too powerful for a 1st level character, I see it as necessary.

Grand Lodge 5/5 *

I personally hope the added language is to allow GMs to "melt down" credits, the passage does not spell out that we can apply them as pregen credits... so right now I can't read it as a change to the rule just a clarification of what was already there. I am hopeful they will clarify the intent of that additional language.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 *

I'm not sure what you mean by "melt down" credits. The pregen section has always allowed players to apply higher level chronicles to first level characters by reducing the gold, but that language wasn't in the GM section. It was often debated whether that was intentional or not. Now it is spelled out that GMs can do the same thing that players always could.

I am very thankful for this, as I rarely want to artificially level my higher level characters, but prefer to start new ones with a little cash and xp (in fact these days I have a lot of concepts that don't work until level 2 due to multiclassing synergies).

Grand Lodge 5/5 *

Dropping it to level one is what I meant... and my point is it doesn't make it clear the GM treats them like pregens. I want it to and I can't see why the wording was added if not to say that, but as written it reads like it was a player character of one's own making not a pregen. As it stands it is unclear enough to cause table variation issues that risk invalidating a character part of the time.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 *

What part of the current text seems unclear to you? I read it and it seems really straightforward and unambiguous. Maybe if you quoted the specific text you are unsure about, we could help you (or end up agreeing with you and flag for an FAQ or errata).

4/5

I can see what Farrindor means - the wording isn't exactly crystal-clear, which is why I asked in the first place. However, it does say "any of the same ways a player can". How many different ways are there? (1) You apply the credit to the character you played the scenario with immediately. If you played a pregen, you apply it to a current character either (2) by holding it until they reach the level you played at or (3) applying it at first level with reduced gold.

Since (2) was the only option GMs previously had and (1) isn't possible since GMs don't play a character, it's only logical that the added text refers to option (3). A little clarification wouldn't hurt, though.

Grand Lodge 3/5

Did this ever get more officially clarified? We do it a lot at my lodge, but I just realized looking through the Guide trying to figure out the rules for items on these reduced Chronicles that the legality of this wasn't super clear.

It sure doesn't seem like it hurts anything, just lets more GMs skip level 1. And I'm not sure how exactly I'd fix it if it weren't legal, but I want to be fastidious.

Dark Archive 4/5 5/5

I just don't see much of an angle for getting slightly earlier access to items being an issue. In most cases you are looking at the item granting you an item about a level earlier or so then you could get it with Fame, maybe 2 if you combine it sneakily with some sort of boon to give you a discount and even then its probably a very expensive item, so your waiting most of the characters life to squeeze out a little more time for the big toy you have been forgoing multiple levels with other life saving equipment? Not being able to use the boons is much more important because those high level adventure path boons would be problematic at lower levels.

Grand Lodge 3/5

Yeah, I don't think there's any problem with it at all.
I thought it was legal word-of-mouth, and I've assigned two sheets this way (Rats of Round Mt I & II to a level 1 character that's now level 5.)
I'm just not sure it's completely sure it's legal by the Guide?

Liberty's Edge 4/5

check the language on p 16 of the Guild Guide

"A GM can assign credit for running an adventure in any of the same ways a player can, and must follow the same rules as a player when applying credit to a character."

Grand Lodge 3/5

Yeah, but does that clause mean we count as playing a non-1st-level pregen?

Season 8 Guide, page 14 wrote:
If the player is playing a non-1st-level pregenerated character, he may choose instead to apply this Chronicle sheet to a 1st-level character by reducing this value to 500 gp (or 250 gp for the slow advancement track) for completing a scenario or 1,398 gp (or 699 gp for the slow advancement track) for completing a module.

The other mention of downgrading looks like it needs review as well, since it implies that you can only apply it to a brand new character (only for the first XP.)

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