|
It is as was intended as far as Proxy trait is concerned
"Proxy" is the language being used by one poster in this thread. That word is found nowhere else regarding Traits (of any kind).
My assertion that I can take Race (Social) traits with Adopted is because ultimate Campaign does not put Race Traits into the added sub-categories. Since it is the newest source, then it overtakes the older sources.
Ultimate Campaign has Race Traits. I'm not sure what you're referring to.
the traits marked Social would be the ones that makes the most sense to take with Adopted.
Socially understandable, but not within a rules perspective. Adopted only works with category "Race", not category "Social".
Looking through the Additional Resources, I came across this little tidbit...
...Ultimate Campaign
Note: Race traits are only available for characters of the associated race
Now that's interesting.
It would indeed mean that *those* Race Traits, from that source, are only available to members of that race.
I only find it odd because there are so many Race Traits that were reprinted from the APG.
|
|
It is as was intended as far as Proxy trait is concerned, just not spelled out. It instead gives another (third) trait of the type that Adopted opened up.
There are plenty of social traits and they're explicitly typed. That says strait out that you can't take them with adopted. Arguments to the contrary really don't hold up.
Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Martinsville
|
I am of the mind, since Ultimate Campaign came out, that there are Race/Racial traits, then there are the basic traits. Having traits have both at the same time was a mistake, one that UC corrects. (It being the newest source)
If we, in PFS, can take any Race/Racial traits with Adopted at all. (See previous post)
|
|
I am of the mind, since Ultimate Campaign came out, that there are Race/Racial traits, then there are the basic traits. Having traits have both at the same time was a mistake, one that UC corrects. (It being the newest source)
If we, in PFS, can take any Race/Racial traits with Adopted at all. (See previous post)
A few paradigms of rules interpretation would argue against that:
that would mean that adopted doesn't work at all. Since adopted is legal it has to do something.
You also run into the specific vs general, adopted being a specific exception to the normal rule that you can't take trait traits outside of your race.
You'd be up and declaring a lot of peoples characters illegal and banning them from your tables on some questionable interpretation.
|
What more clarification do you want, when it's already been laid out in front of you?
When I see a PFS FAQ (and likely rules clarification) entry for all the reasons explained above, I'll let you know, and I appreciate that you have your opinion about how it should be interpreted. My interpretation is different and that's OK. It is through navigating opposing opinions that truth emerges.
"proxy"
It is a word intended to describe the process whereby one trait invokes another or acts in its stead, occupying a single slot. It is my own use and not referenced from any source, because that's how it functions. Adopted invokes another trait and the 2 traits occupy a single trait slot. If there is a better word to use, happy to use that one instead.
Regarding how it functions...
You were adopted and raised by someone not of your race
...it requires choosing a trait from a race different from that of the PC choosing Adopted.
I look forward to the FAQ entry when the team has time, which will hopefully include a list of races legal for Adopted in PFS and an explanation of the mechanics of how, when, or even if Adopted functions as an override vs. other race restrictions.
|
|
I look forward to the FAQ entry when the team has time, which will hopefully include a list of races legal for Adopted in PFS and an explanation of the mechanics of how, when, or even if Adopted functions as an override vs. other race restrictions.
The answer you seek is, "Every single race in all of Pathfinder is a valid choice for Adopted".
Every... Single... One.
Even races which have no published Race Traits.
Even races which aren't otherwise playable in Pathfinder Society.
There is literally no restriction on race.
The restrictions have to do, solely, only, purely, with the Additional Resources document.
If you disagree with that answer, in any way, shape, or form, I invite you to explain why.
Truly, I wish to know, so we can put this to rest.
You say you disagree with me, and yet I have not seen one concrete reason why.
|
|
Respectfully, the answer I seek is the one that provides clarity to an otherwise unclear game feature. If it's all races, fine, if it's a subset, fine. What is the official explanation for how Adopted interacts with existing (and conflicting) rules and resources in PFS? I'm happy to wait for the FAQ. We have collected a number of opinions and maybe those will be helpful to paizo in consideration of a formal statement. Thanks.
|
|
If you're just going to avoid the question, then this discussion will go nowhere, and consequently, your efforts to obtain an "official response" will likewise end.
What is the "unclear game feature"? (your words).
What is a "subset"? (your word)
What "existing (and conflicting) rules and resources" are you talking about? (again, your words)
Stop being vague.
If there's a specific Trait you have in mind, ask it.
Give *one* example of something that's unclear.
Because if you can't do that, no FAQ is needed.
|
Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Martinsville
|
It is unclear why the companion books refer to Race Traits as "Racial" Traits. It is very confusing why they chose to categorize them into basic traits in addition to being Race/Racial traits.
It is clear to me that Ultimate Campaign put them back into being regular Race Traits and not have the additional quantity of being one of the basic traits as well. (It being the newer source.)
What I found is an entry in Additional Resources that states that Race Traits can only be taken by the race itself. I wonder what that means for Adopted. Am I wrong in this interpretation?
I assume that the particular phrase could be re-done to allow or that it could be clarified that Adopted and Racial Heritage can be used in respect to being of the target race in regards to qualifying for various Traits/Feats. I assume that one does, but it isn't spelled out.
My real pain is that Goblins, in Additional Resources, actually mentions the need for the Racial boon and playing a Goblin character to qualify. It also does this in some of the ARG races as well.
Maybe not FAQ material, but a possible revision of the Additional Resources.
|
What is a "subset"? (your word)
A subset is a mathematical term that was employed correctly by Zen. The set of races would be defined as races published by Paizo, a subset would be any variation of this. Generally, all cases is a subset but is ignored since it is already taken care of, in this case I believe he is refering to the subset = (all Paizo races - any exemptions (like Goblins or ARG races that require a boon to access))
|
|
That being said, I would bet against an FAQ being forthcoming.
1. There hasn't been a request for one I've seen recently (by that I mean someone actually flagging a question)
2. Most people seem to be reading and explaining the requirements the same way
3. Even if it was flagged, there is a high likelihood that it would be marked as no need for clarification due to #2.
|
|
It is unclear why the companion books refer to Race Traits as "Racial" Traits. It is very confusing why they chose to categorize them into basic traits in addition to being Race/Racial traits.
The general consensus is that the use of "racial trait" in Gnomes of Golarion was a typo. There may be another source as well, but the two categories are supposed to be distinct.
But that confusion has nothing to do with PFS, and would require an errata of that source. It's also not imperative, as anyone who asks about it can be told "it's a typo".
It is clear to me that Ultimate Campaign put them back into being regular Race Traits and not have the additional quantity of being one of the basic traits as well. (It being the newer source.)
I don't understand what you're trying to say here. The category called "Race Traits" has existed since the APG (and earlier in 3.5), and didn't change between it and Ultimate Campaign.
What I found is an entry in Additional Resources that states that Race Traits can only be taken by the race itself. I wonder what that means for Adopted. Am I wrong in this interpretation?
Since that restriction is verbatim to that found in the Additional Resources listing for the Advanced Race Guide, it is easy to apply the same logic to other sources (with no reason to believe otherwise).
|
Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Martinsville
|
Here is the relevant Additional Resources blurbs about Race/Racial Traits. (I did not include ARG as they only mention the Racial Traits which are the switcharoo abilities, not half feats)
Pathfinder Player Companion: Bastards of Golarion
Traits: The traits on pages 4-13 and 28-29 are only legal if your character is of the same ethnicity as the section with the trait.
Pathfinder Player Companion: Blood of the Elements
Note: Racial feats, racial traits, and racial spells are only available for characters of the assigned race. Racial equipment and magic items can be purchased and used by any race as long as the specific item permits it.
Pathfinder Player Companion: Blood of the Moon
Note: Racial feats, racial traits, and racial spells are only available for characters of the skinwalker race.
Pathfinder Player Companion: Blood of the Night
Note: Racial feats, racial traits, and racial spells are only available for characters of the dhampir race
Pathfinder Player Companion: Goblins of Golarion
To create a goblin character, you must have a Chronicle sheet that opens the race as a legal option at character creation. Only legal goblin PCs are allowed to choose anything from this book.
Pathfinder Player Companion: People of the North
The kellid, snowcaster elves, ulfen, erutaki, and jadwiga sections of the book are legal for play. The traits on pages 6-13 are only legal if your character is of the same ethnicity as the section with the trait.
Pathfinder Player Companion: People of the Sands
The Garundi, Keleshite, and Pahmet sections of the book are legal for play. The traits on pages 8-13 are only legal if your character is of the same ethnicity as the section with the trait.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Ultimate Campaign
Note: Race traits are only available for characters of the associated race.
So, when it says "Associated Race" does that mean Adopted doesn't work?
|
|
I believe the only exception to Adopted working in your list is the Goblin book, as it has more restrictive text. (The skinwalker may not work either, but for a different reason, I'm not familiar enough to guess) Everything else, adopted let's you use the race traits (as if you were a member of the associated race). (At least that is my understanding)