barry lyndon |
I was messing around in Hero Lab, exploring unfamiliar classes, and I made an alchemist. All was fine and dandy until I looked at my creation and thought "What happens if he trips over his shoelaces?"
Notwithstanding the suspension of disbelief required for flying horses, dragons and magic and such, I do struggle to envisage the practicality of someone covered in easily accessible and smashable bottles/vials of acid and inflammables, regardless of them being inert until activated.
If any of you alchemy fans have rationalised this then I'd love to be given some inspiration.
(also if anyone can tell me how to receive email notifications for replies that would be a bonus)
Kaelidin |
Them tripping wouldn't cause problems.
The prep they do when the adventure day starts is just mixing catalysts and ingredients, not final ready-to-explode-bombs.
Also the little bit of Alchemical magic (madness?) that is put into the bombs on the round they are prepped and thrown is what causes them to be "explody".
I envision that even if they mixed by someone dumping all the powders and liquids into a cauldron likely wouldn't have the same impact as the alchemist doing their precision mixing and adding in that little touch of what makes the alchemist better throwing splash weapons than everyone else.
barry lyndon |
Them tripping wouldn't cause problems.
The prep they do when the adventure day starts is just mixing catalysts and ingredients, not final ready-to-explode-bombs.
Also the little bit of Alchemical magic (madness?) that is put into the bombs on the round they are prepped and thrown is what causes them to be "explody".
I envision that even if they mixed by someone dumping all the powders and liquids into a cauldron likely wouldn't have the same impact as the alchemist doing their precision mixing and adding in that little touch of what makes the alchemist better throwing splash weapons than everyone else.
The trip was just an example, could be falling down a trap door, being smacked, grappled, etc. While I generally forget about carrying a cure wounds potion until it's needed, actually wearing 10 lbs of glassware seems a stretch. So it's not the actual contents that bothers me, it's the multitude of containers. And I would imagine a lot of low level aclhies
would also be bedecked with bflasks of acid to make up for their lack of recipes.Seranov |
Let's use real-world C4 as an example: You can throw the stuff, step on it, run it over with a car, shoot it, light it on fire, and nothing will happen. It's specifically designed that it will ONLY explode when an electrical charge is introduced.
Alchemist bombs are like that. You drop one and the vial breaks, it just spills all over the ground. I won't say it's entirely harmless (because the rules never specifically states that it is or is not) but it won't blow the hell up and take everybody with it, at the very least.
Skeld |
(also if anyone can tell me how to receive email notifications for replies that would be a bonus)
There are no email notifications for replies. There an RSS feed button at the top of the page.
-Skeld
Zwordsman |
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I think you might be thinking the infusion$s/bombs are bigger than I do.
This is how I see them
They aren't flask sized. They're little vials, the small kind you use in a centrifuge in highschool, that are half the length of a pencil and maybe twice as thick. They're lal premixed and in bomb cases they charge kind like Gambit's throwing cards when he throws them they explode when something jarring happens; kinda like nitro once charged.
Pretty easy to find small places for those kind of bottles; espeically if it's related to your livelyhood.
The alchemist kit thingy (the class item not the item for alchemy rolls) is only 5lbs, so that means that even a max level alchemists' innate gear isn't over 5 lbs.
Now normal splash weapons (alchemist flask, acid flask etc) those present problems when falling, sonich hits, maye tripping. but thats where suspension of disbelief part comes into play. otherewise you gotta roll for bending you sword when you fall down a hole on it, or snapping your wands, or ripping a page out of your wizards book. etc. and you'll end up rolling a saving throw for probably a quarter of your inventory
Except for formal actual sonic attacks. They may cause a problem. Now generally they are attended (and infusions/bombs are magical), so they'll recieve a saving throw. most sonic attacks/spells specify they must be unattended and non magical. A few allow direct target agianst non magical.
Edit:
an easy way to check your specific threads is at the top of the page you can click on yoyur user name and then look at threads. easy to find them that way
Adoril Recond |
What do you mean by "The alchemist kit thingy", do you mean
ALCHEMIST'S KIT
Price 40 gp; Weight 24 lbs.
This kit includes an alchemy crafting kit, a backpack, a bedroll, a belt pouch, a flint and steel, ink, an inkpen, an iron pot, a mess kit, soap, torches (10), trail rations (5 days), and a waterskin. The kit does not contain a formula book because an alchemist begins play with a formula book and does not need to purchase one. or
ALCHEMY CRAFTING KIT
Price 25 gp; Weight 50 lbs.
An alchemist with an alchemy crafting kit is assumed to have all the material components needed for his extracts, mutagens, and bombs, except for those components that have a specific cost. An alchemy crafting kit provides no bonuses on Craft (alchemy) checks. (This item was called an “alchemist's kit” in the Advanced Player's Guide, and was renamed to avoid confusion with this book's pre-selected set of adventuring gear called an “alchemist's kit.”) or something else entirely
Deadmanwalking |
They aren't flask sized. They're little vials, the small kind you use in a centrifuge in highschool, that are half the length of a pencil and maybe twice as thick. They're lal premixed and in bomb cases they charge kind like Gambit's throwing cards when he throws them they explode when something jarring happens; kinda like nitro once charged.
You can also make them out of metal, if you like (a fact noted here on somewhat larger vials).
And this interpretation (aside from the metal, which is simply logical) is borne out by the art of our Iconic Alchemist. See how many of those vials are larger than a test tube? It's like two of them. They are made of glass, but that's almost necessary artistically for us to know what they are.
So, in short, an adventuring Alchemist has a number of small, metal, vials. That's pretty easy to deal with. Now, the kits listed in the post above are a bit bigger and likely more breakable...but also utterly unnecessary for an Alchemist to do his basic work.
Pendagast |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Let's use real-world C4 as an example: You can throw the stuff, step on it, run it over with a car, shoot it, light it on fire, and nothing will happen. It's specifically designed that it will ONLY explode when an electrical charge is introduced.
Alchemist bombs are like that. You drop one and the vial breaks, it just spills all over the ground. I won't say it's entirely harmless (because the rules never specifically states that it is or is not) but it won't blow the hell up and take everybody with it, at the very least.
actually, as a military explosives expert, what you are saying about C4 isn't exactly true… it's not the "electrical charge" that sets it off.
It is infact EQUAL amounts of heat and pressure that set it off.
The "electrical charge" you're talking about is to set off the blasting cap, which is precisely equal amounts of heat and pressure.
So, you could set it on fire (it will burn) and hit it with a hammer and it will not explode…. you ARE apply heat and pressure, but not in equal amounts….
So if you hit c4 with say lightening, or hooked it up to jumper cables , you're not setting it off either… it's the blasting cap that does the trick, not electricity, although… from just watching it, or reading about it, or seeing it… I can understand where the misconception of electricity can easily come into play….
But C4 does make a good analogy.
In the alchemists case… his magical 'spark' is the "blasting cap"
Deadmanwalking |
doesn't the alchemist like tear off a part of his magic and shove it into a bomb? why doesn't the alchemist explode himself occasionally?
That's like asking why a Fire Bloodline Sorcerer or Evocation Wizard doesn't spontaneously blow up. They don't because your magic needs to be directed to do things, it doesn't just happen on it's own. Not even for a Sorcerer, mostly, and certainly not for those who do their magic through reason and discipline like a Wizard or Alchemist.
Bandw2 |
Bandw2 wrote:doesn't the alchemist like tear off a part of his magic and shove it into a bomb? why doesn't the alchemist explode himself occasionally?That's like asking why a Fire Bloodline Sorcerer or Evocation Wizard doesn't spontaneously blow up. They don't because your magic needs to be directed to do things, it doesn't just happen on it's own. Not even for a Sorcerer, mostly, and certainly not for those who do their magic through reason and discipline like a Wizard or Alchemist.
Pendagast |
Pendagast wrote:Stuff.As a civilian, I figured the simple explanation was apt enough. You are correct, but the point is still mostly "s~#$ won't blow up except under special alchemist-controlled situations (or the DM deciding he wants the alchemist to be on fire!) because that's how its designed."
true, it just is more complicated than simple "electricity"
just as the alchemist's trigger is far more complicated, and far less volatile than simply "falling damage"
Pendagast |
in our up coming numerian campaign, one of the characters will be a gun tank/alchemist
who will trade out mutagens for spagyric devices.
her extracts and bombs will be contained within her plate armor and deployed by a vestigial limb.
Eventually she will use her extracts essentially through internal injection (via the limb) like Bane and his venom in his mask.
Bombs will have the rocket and mini bomb discoveries and will be fired as missiles.
all the while she will be able to fire her "Gun Pod" (modified musket) with her normal two arms.
So if she fell down? Oh no! everything is contained in a bulky armor suit and deployed by a cyber arm.
it's all how you envision it. RAW it all still works the same way.
MrRetsej |
What do you mean by "The alchemist kit thingy", do you mean
ALCHEMIST'S KIT
Price 40 gp; Weight 24 lbs.
This kit includes an alchemy crafting kit, a backpack, a bedroll, a belt pouch, a flint and steel, ink, an inkpen, an iron pot, a mess kit, soap, torches (10), trail rations (5 days), and a waterskin. The kit does not contain a formula book because an alchemist begins play with a formula book and does not need to purchase one. orALCHEMY CRAFTING KIT
Price 25 gp; Weight 50 lbs.
An alchemist with an alchemy crafting kit is assumed to have all the material components needed for his extracts, mutagens, and bombs, except for those components that have a specific cost. An alchemy crafting kit provides no bonuses on Craft (alchemy) checks. (This item was called an “alchemist's kit” in the Advanced Player's Guide, and was renamed to avoid confusion with this book's pre-selected set of adventuring gear called an “alchemist's kit.”) or something else entirely
The devs have stated that the Alchemy Crafting Kit actually only weighs 5 lbs and the printed weight is a typo that will be corrected in the next printing of APG/UE.
DJ Science |
Zwordsman wrote:They aren't flask sized. They're little vials, the small kind you use in a centrifuge in highschool, that are half the length of a pencil and maybe twice as thick. They're lal premixed and in bomb cases they charge kind like Gambit's throwing cards when he throws them they explode when something jarring happens; kinda like nitro once charged.You can also make them out of metal, if you like (a fact noted here on somewhat larger vials).
And this interpretation (aside from the metal, which is simply logical) is borne out by the art of our Iconic Alchemist. See how many of those vials are larger than a test tube? It's like two of them. They are made of glass, but that's almost necessary artistically for us to know what they are.
So, in short, an adventuring Alchemist has a number of small, metal, vials. That's pretty easy to deal with. Now, the kits listed in the post above are a bit bigger and likely more breakable...but also utterly unnecessary for an Alchemist to do his basic work.
This raises another issue which has been on my mind since I started looking over the Alchemist class. With all the bombs, infusions, and so on, an Alchemist probably goes through a LOT of glassware over the course of an adventure. And if said Alchemist runs out of containers in the middle of a dungeon, their ability to function drops sharply. Does the (presumedly non-magical) Alchemist Kit somehow have an infinite supply of vials?