ninja for carrion crown


Advice


Hey ladies and gents. I just got word that I will be getting to play in a carrion crown campaign. I usually play tanks (I.e.clerics and paladins). I know they would be great for this campaign but to like to challenge myself. Since I have never seen a ninja played I would like to play one.

So......half-orc ninja. We roll stats, so I don't have any right now. However, I was leaning towards a strength build. Any opinions and thoughts on this are greatly welcomed. Is this a good idea? How can I make it work?

Thanks


What kind of advice are you seeking? Optimization? Flavor? Past experiences in Carrion Crown without spoilers?

I'll mention that the Ustalav region, which is the setting for Carrion Crown, has a lot of human settlements that are kind of xenophobic. You might want to invest in disguise / get a hat of disguise fast if you're a non-human.

Of course, there will be table variance and your GM might not play out the xenophobic aspect of Ustalav.

Grand Lodge

Ninja, the concept, or Ninja, the class?

Grand Lodge

I will be honest the amount of undead you will be facing your most likely better off with a class suited more for being up close and personal with them. Rogues/Ninjas are pretty weak sauce as a class as well.

Shadow Lodge

Carrion Crown:
Early adventures focus on incorporeal undead. also this AP is trap heavy

Ninja wear light armor so high dex is a given. Katana is not a dex weapon so str is good if you want to go that way. but if you wanna go two weapon fighting, you need a high dex. So weapon finesse, two wakazashi with agile, and lot's of sneak attacks.
Stealth will be helpful. And ninja need a high charisma, if you invest in charisma based skills this would be very helpful, ahem not saying how or why.


Okay, to answer some of the questions.
I am looking for advice on optimising a ninja for this for this AP. I know there will be a lot of undead, but I thought as long as they aren't incorporeal they can still be sneak attacked.
Also any advice you can give on the ap without spoilers is greatly appreciated.

I usually play cleric and paladins so something different would be nice, even if it makes things difficult as that just adds to the experience.

Thanks again.


the Queen's Raven wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

Ninja wear light armor so high dex is a given. Katana is not a dex weapon so str is good if you want to go that way. but if you wanna go two weapon fighting, you need a high dex. So weapon finesse, two wakazashi with agile, and lot's of sneak attacks.
Stealth will be helpful. And ninja need a high charisma, if you invest in charisma based skills this would be very helpful, ahem not saying how or why.

Not necessarily. Ninjas (and pretty much anybody) can grab mithral medium armor using only a trait- Armor Expert.

This is because of the fact that the penalty for nonproficient armor use is applying the Armor Check Penalty to attack. But if ACP is 0, the penalty is 0.

Mithral reduces ACP by 3, and armor expert can do it by 1. That is enough to get almost any medium armor. It certainly gets you a breastplate, at the least.

Also, you only need a 16 in order to get all the good TWF feats (which is later raised to 17 at level 4 with the ability score adjustment), so you could conceivably go with a strength build, even if you TWF. Not sure what stats you are going to end up with, since this is for rolled stats, but it is still rather doable most of the time


Rolled stats....17,13,16,9,12,13.....hope that helps


Good stats. Taking the Bandit archetype seems like the obvious choice (link), but he will lose uncanny dodge.


Assuming he's rolling up a ninja the class, and not a ninja themed character then he can't take rogue archetypes.


A small piece of advice without giving anything away: it might be tempting to put that 9 in WIS, but I wouldn't, at least not without putting your floating +2 into it also. Will saves are very important in this AP, particularly so in the first book.


Undead immunities/defenses for quick reference:

Pathfinder SRD wrote:


Darkvision 60 feet.
Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, morale effects, patterns, and phantasms).
Immunity to death effects, disease, paralysis, poison, sleep effects, and stunning.
Not subject to nonlethal damage, ability drain, or energy drain. Immune to damage to its physical ability scores (Constitution, Dexterity, and Strength), as well as to exhaustion and fatigue effects.
Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless).
Not at risk of death from massive damage, but is immediately destroyed when reduced to 0 hit points.

Also, will your GM allow traits?


Ah...yeah I hate having to dump my save stats. So 9 would probably go into intelligence as it wouldn't be as important as a good will save. We usually get two traits a piece. I am also looking at taking sacred tatoo alternate racial trait.

As far as undead, I take the attitude that most has to do with preparation, and expecting the worst case scenario.

Grand Lodge

Carrion Crown, without reveling too much, will be full of stuff immune to Sneak Attack.

Just so you know.


Alasanii wrote:
Ah...yeah I hate having to dump my save stats. So 9 would probably go into intelligence as it wouldn't be as important as a good will save. We usually get two traits a piece. I am also looking at taking sacred tatoo alternate racial trait.

Courageous provides +2 to will saves against fear and Sacred Tattoo will help early on. Both will stack since one's a luck bonus and the other's a trait bonus.

Alasanii wrote:
As far as undead, I take the attitude that most has to do with preparation, and expecting the worst case scenario.

Yep. Also, I would take Ki Charge ninja trick as soon as possible simply to have a definite way to harm things you can't poison or hoodwink. Vanishing Trick is an excellent alternative.

As for feats, Blindfight or Dodge (I always build rogues toward Sprint Attack--biased).


Running CC right now. At the tail end of the last chapter. Had a Ninja PC. Almost nothing immune to Sneak Attack past the first chapter (when SA damage is barely worthwhile anyway). Neither can most things see invisible. This depends on rather or not your GM deviates from script though.

Ninja saves suck, so invest in boosting saves. Calls for Reflex saves are almost non-existent in the AP and Fort and Will are thrown at you a lot. Several opportunities to TPK from AoE SoD.


Alasanii wrote:

Ah...yeah I hate having to dump my save stats. So 9 would probably go into intelligence as it wouldn't be as important as a good will save. We usually get two traits a piece. I am also looking at taking sacred tatoo alternate racial trait.

As far as undead, I take the attitude that most has to do with preparation, and expecting the worst case scenario.

OOO, depending on the sources you can use, you might want to pick up fate's favored. That raises luck bonuses by 1. That means this one trait gives you a +1 to all saves (Which should help the fort and will situation)

Grand Lodge

The "Ninja" in our CC group, is a Heretic Inquisitor, and has been surprisingly well.


So, what I am gathering is that the ninja may just not be great for this ap. What class then would work? Bard archaeologist? Magus? Or as the previous post has mentioned an inquisitor? I am not against a cleric I just want to be more mobile than the characters I usually play. A monk?

Any class except a paladin I am up for, just high mobility, stealth/scouting and trap finding/disarming are key.

Grand Lodge

Inquisitor is really good for this. Ranger as well.

You will can even have all the "high mobility, stealth/scouting and trap finding/disarming" as well.


An inquisitor of Pharasma is an awesome choice for this AP, both in terms of the skill set matching the adventure and the flavor matching the setting.

I think a ninja would be fine too, though there are in fact a fair number of fights when you’ll need something to do other than sneak attack. If you don’t want to be a fish out of water, and if your GM is using background details from Rule of Fear and Occult Mysteries, ask if you can play an Anaphexia agent. It makes all kinds of sense.

Bards are always great. Besides an archeologist bard, you might consider an archivist, bard classic, or the highly appropriate dirge bard--another case where the mechanical benefits and flavor are both quite fitting.

Being a half-orc is an interesting choice, roleplaying-wise. Ustalav sits next to the Hold of Belkzen, and suffers raids all the time. The adventure path starts in the region that suffers most from orc raids. Furthermore, orcs helped put the Whispering Tyrant on his throne all those years ago. A half-orc PC should face constant hostility and insults from the insular, superstitious peasantry, and prejudice and discrimination from the middle and ruling classes.

All the classes you mentioned have disguise as a class skill, so you could try to pass for human, or you could play someone used to being an outcast, or a foreigner suprised by all this Ustalavic unpleasantness. If that sounds like good fun--or if your GM agrees to play that down--go for it. Discuss it with your GM, though, so there’s no surprises where you saunter into a town and meet a torches-and-pitchforks crowd.

Grand Lodge

Inquisitors, magus, dirge bard, summoner will be good. As well as anything that can command

A ranger with the right support and favored enemies would be good. Ghost bane dirge is your friend.

But I really love the dirge bard. Really good for this AP. You could take the responder trait if you want but honestly you deal with a lot more haunts then you do traps.


Inquisitor is a solid option for this AP. Actually, one of the iconics represents this very scenario nicely.


Thanks. Lots to think about. The idea of sneaking around like a ninja is great, I might have been convinced of being an inquisitor of pharasma. Though how would I go about getting weapon proficiencies? Feats? Also does the repose domain sound like a solid option?

Grand Lodge

What you looking to fight with?


Two short swords or a falchion/great sword/nodachi


The heirloom weapon trait, or play a half orc for falchion prof., or play a half elf with Ancestral Arms.

I'd choose the Final Rest inquisition. YMMV.

Grand Lodge

Well, are you looking to go Finesse, Two handed, Two weapon, or Ranged?


If I can make it finesse I will. Because the dex will work into the stealth. Two weapon if possible, unless switch hitting is best.


Go Dwarf. Dual wield Dwarven dorn-dergars. At +4 BATB take Dorn-Dergar Master. Perfect ST build and full of Rawr fun!

Grand Lodge

Well, if you go Irori, you won't need dexterity at all to be stealthy.

Just nab the Wisdom in the Flesh trait, and use Wisdom for Stealth.

Heck, combine that with the Heretic archetype, and get x2 Wisdom to Stealth.

Grand Lodge

DWing is typically not worth it. Try the Falchion, greatsword, nadachi inquisitor. Repose is a decent one that would come in handy in every book.

As far as a race go half orc. Dark vision is powerful this AP. Also falchion you will be proficient with.

Trait you want is fates favored.

Feat you will want is power attack at level 3.
If you want you could grab heavy armor proficiency. It could be worth it. I would still carry potion of mage armor and shield when fighting incorpreal creatures. Other then that the feats are up to you.

I recommend a holy enchant on your weapon. Bane plus holy is hells ouch to evil.

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