Encouraging players to level up and create characters on their own?


GM Discussion


Hey all! There's a player at the store I play who has not ever made or leveled up a character on their own, or learned how to and they have been playing for roughly two years.

I find it enjoyable looking at all the feats and stuff when I level up/make new characters. They are also looking to make a Kitsune with the new race changes coming up.

So my question is how do I encourage this person and others in the future to read and learn how to do this themselves in a polite way that won't offend them?

I just really hate to see people just playing stat blocks and not actual characters.

Sovereign Court 4/5

I have seen people in my area who have progressed through a few levels and had one gent level up their characters for them every time with what looked like minimal input from them. And they were fine with that. Personally, I tend to shake my head a little at them, but I bite my tongue because it's not my horse, not my race.

That said, someone will not learn how to properly make characters or level them without someone to push them.

I would recommend offering assistance to the person, using this new kitsune concept of their's to start them off. Teach them how to build the character they want, offer tips and suggestions, but let them be the one who does the building. This should give them the tools needed to start making their own characters. Similarly, when they reach level 2, offer guidance to help them level. Show how to figure new hit points, new saves, changing attack bonuses, new powers, etc.

Unless you truly try to help them out, you're really just sitting by and letting it happen. So do what you can to help the less knowledgeable out. It may be a lost cause, but you'll never know unless you try. =)

The Exchange 5/5 RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

Different people enjoy different aspects of the game.

I have met several players who like to roll dice and role-play, and don't much care about game mechanics. Some of these people have their friends design and build their PCs.

"Your ranger just advanced a level, and he can learn something about fighting. Do you want him to shoot better, shoot harder once per round, or move faster?"

You can provide the player opportunities to learn about how to design characters. But whether that interests the player or not isn't up to you.

Grand Lodge

While I do level up and advance my own characters, I think part of the reason people would like to have a GM nearby is so they are certain they get everything right...especially when it comes to purchasing new items with prestige or gold. The way it is explained in organized play is not completely clear, and the numerous posts I see every week asking about prestige purchases, gold costs, special material and magic combinations, etc., seems to show that I am not the only one that sometimes gets confused. Some GMs will be helpful when you make mistakes, but I have heard many stories of those who are not so kind or helpful. I'm sure there will be many posts after this saying that is simple and easy to understand, but for some it is not. I will now get off of my soap box. We will now return to your regularly scheduled postings :)

Shadow Lodge 3/5

Why haven't they done it by themselves? You've specified your perspective but haven't elaborated on what theirs is/might be.

If other players are too eager to help and tend to give them very optimised builds, there's going to be less incentive for them to do it themselves. It can be intimidating when other people seem to know so much more.


Chris Mortika wrote:

Different people enjoy different aspects of the game.

I have met several players who like to roll dice and role-play, and don't much care about game mechanics. Some of these people have their friends design and build their PCs.

I forgot to clarify in my post. This isn't just a person who doesn't like number crunching and just enjoys the roleplay aspect. This person does not roleplay, nor will they make any effort to. All of their characters so far "don't talk"/are "mute" so they can avoid roleplaying. All this despite at least one of their characters having amazing Diplomacy/Bluff scores. More so than my Samurai who likes to brag about being awesome and has points pumped into Bluff/Diplomacy/Intimidate every level (Order of the Cockatrice :D).

They also can't grasp just basic mechanics. As in needing to be told where to move, what to roll to hit, etc.

EDIT: If it was just that they hated making characters, but otherwise seemed to enjoy playing and knew how to play after this long, I would not have a problem.

Shadow Lodge 3/5

That's really strange. What motivates them to play then?


Avatar-1 wrote:
That's really strange. What motivates them to play then?

The only thing I can think of is they like the social aspect of hanging out, but that leads to off topic discussion during the game...

Also they always come with their close friend and sibling. Both who coddle them.

Grand Lodge 2/5 RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Lolita Pudding wrote:
Avatar-1 wrote:
That's really strange. What motivates them to play then?

The only thing I can think of is they like the social aspect of hanging out, but that leads to off topic discussion during the game...

Also they always come with their close friend and sibling. Both who coddle them.

My wife only ever plays for the social aspect (and even that is mostly to join me in my hobby, actually), and needs help with the rules, and also doesn't like being the center of attention. Sounds like this player of yours. The only issue (with your player, I mean) would be the off-topic chatter, which can be addressed on its own.

But there's nothing wrong with someone who only plays to be with people.


Jiggy wrote:
Lolita Pudding wrote:
Avatar-1 wrote:
That's really strange. What motivates them to play then?

The only thing I can think of is they like the social aspect of hanging out, but that leads to off topic discussion during the game...

Also they always come with their close friend and sibling. Both who coddle them.

My wife only ever plays for the social aspect (and even that is mostly to join me in my hobby, actually), and needs help with the rules, and also doesn't like being the center of attention. Sounds like this player of yours. The only issue (with your player, I mean) would be the off-topic chatter, which can be addressed on its own.

But there's nothing wrong with someone who only plays to be with people.

This person is far from shy. There's also a difference between playing to be with people and not playing and just being there to hang out. Also while I forget things now and then, we have players with curfews and having to explain over and over every single turn (literally) bogs down the game. This person has played 30 games by the way.

Shadow Lodge 3/5

Maybe talk to the close friend and sibling to tell them your concerns about the person and to find out if they any insight on what they think can be done to help fix the situation.

If the answer is "I'll help them whenever it happens!" or something, then explain (a little indirectly) that you think that might not help, and dig for another idea.

Grand Lodge 5/5

Have GM'ed and played with very similar players to your example. Thgouh the most recent one I'm thinking of does like to roleplay (though generally with characters who don't have the ability scores in bluf/diplomacy to back it up, instead of your opposite side has the scores doesn't) and doesn't generally chat during the game. My recourse as both a player and GM is generally to memorize his most common bonuses on rolls (perception/attack/initiative/etc?) and just have him tell me the roll then move on from there to at least somewhat speed up play. The socializing at the table issue would be separate, and for me would probably involve a talk with the player outlining the following.

1. I'm happy you come to play PFS with us and be social, however during the game myself and others like to hear/be heard and when you are talking about out of game things it hurts our enjoyment. Or some such.

2. Follow that with a suggestion of arriving a little early or staying late to socialize before/after the game.

3. As a GM I have found in the past that people who will keep talking over you often stop talking if you go silent (thus stopping all play) and wait for them.

4. If silence doesn't work (if there is a time limit, either by location, scenario, or gm/players time available) suggest that not finishing the scenario can lead to the dreaded Oxp, 0gp, 0pp sheet. Though I hesitate to use this one as it affects not just one player but all of them, it does have the potential to get his friend & relation to reign their OOC chat in a bit.

I don't know if any of that will help you, but that my 2cp


BartonOliver wrote:

They already do 2 and we have tried 3 a LOT and they will just keep going. It isn't just a problem with this particular player. Our regulars just love to talk a lot, especially during red text...

We will try 1 but definitely do 4.

I ran a lvl 1 - 5 scenario and it took almost 6 hours. They weren't playing up either. It shouldn't take that long at all, which led to the PCs rushing and losing all pp.

Thank you for the advice!

Community / Forums / Organized Play / GM Discussion / Encouraging players to level up and create characters on their own? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in GM Discussion