I rolled a 4 for an ability, where would you put it?


Advice

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It looks like we will play Mummy's Mask. I did roll 4d6 drop lowest, man. A 2 1 1 1, right off the bat. I can only think of int or cha, but both seem risky with Mummy's curses and such. I rolled my race, half orc, and I have a 15 high score, a 17 does sound nice with the +2. but should I raise up the 4 to a 6, or keep the 4 and just where would I put the thing.


you were born with a skin disease and gained a negative disposition with talking to people because of it

dump charisma


I agree with Xedrek, for a half-orc, it's ideal rp material.


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It obviously depends strongly on the class you will play, though a 4 will hurt a lot, no matter where. Personally, I would do a Lore Oracle, with Sidestep Secret and Noble Scion (War), put the 4 in Dex an the 17 in Cha. The only thing aside from skills you use Dex for will be your CMD, which I think would be alright as a primary caster.


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Mino wrote:
It obviously depends strongly on the class you will play, though a 4 will hurt a lot, no matter where. Personally, I would do a Lore Oracle, with Sidestep Secret and Noble Scion (War), put the 4 in Dex an the 17 in Cha. The only thing aside from skills you use Dex for will be your CMD, which I think would be alright as a primary caster.

Would also gimp his initiative. Normally want to avoid if possible. Could always put it into Con and then apply an undead template


Depending on the pc you could use int, as well. If you go sorcerer, for example, having a low int isn't that bad. Put your favored class bonus into skills then you have at least that one skill point per level.
You could take the skilled alternate racial trait and you'd have 2 skills per level.


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If you are willing to play a Paladin you could put that 4 in Wisdom. Your Will save could still end up OK due to your Charisma modifier. There are enough ways to boost Perception that you'd eventually get past that penalty. For roleplaying purposes I'd think a Paladin with a 4 Wisdom would tend to charge in where angels fear to tread. Especially at low levels he might be lost in thoughts of holy mysteries and the righteous wrath he'll visit on the undead.

If Paladin isn't your thing maybe you could dump Cha but tie a social skill or two to Int using a trait. I have a Cha 5 orc who intimidates people with his Int of 14 (pretty much a genius in orc terms). You could do something similar with Diplomacy if desired.

It might be nice to avoid 4 Int if you can since it makes your skill points painfully low and you'll likely be subjected to claims that your PC "couldn't think of that". There's another thread on this right now in fact.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Play a conversion domain inquisitor. You charm with your wise words, charisma need not apply.


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Am I the only one thinking Wizard, dump strength and make the party carry your stuff?


thegreenteagamer wrote:
Am I the only one thinking Wizard, dump strength and make the party carry your stuff?

That could work, especially if you use the excuse that a random combination in their hybrid genes caused them to come out as a runty, sickly individual that never quite recovered.


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In my personal experience, strength and wisdom are the most common stat drains, so I would avoid dumping either of those. What Mino suggested with the dex dump doesn't gimp initiative, but it does eat up the first-level feat on Noble Scion. It's not a bad idea. I've encountered some poisons and diseases that can hit dex over my assorted adventures, but with a decent Con it'll help those fort saves.

Alternately, put the 4 into Con and when the character dies hope you roll better. ;)

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Matt Thomason wrote:
thegreenteagamer wrote:
Am I the only one thinking Wizard, dump strength and make the party carry your stuff?
That could work, especially if you use the excuse that a random combination in their hybrid genes caused them to come out as a runty, sickly individual that never quite recovered.

Or a dervish dancer build could work as well.


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Xedrek wrote:
Mino wrote:
It obviously depends strongly on the class you will play, though a 4 will hurt a lot, no matter where. Personally, I would do a Lore Oracle, with Sidestep Secret and Noble Scion (War), put the 4 in Dex an the 17 in Cha. The only thing aside from skills you use Dex for will be your CMD, which I think would be alright as a primary caster.
Would also gimp his initiative. Normally want to avoid if possible. Could always put it into Con and then apply an undead template

Should really have elaborated here. Yes, as Zathyr said, with Noble Scion and Sidestep Secret you use your Cha for Initiatve, AC and Reflex Saves, so Dex is mostly useless except for CMD and if you somehow encounter Dex drain (Though as an oracle, you can prepare for that).

Going undead would be a perfect way out, though completely dependant on DM fiat (or is there a PC way of being undead at first level?).

I really wouldn't dump Cha, if just for the reason EVERYONE does, and the world hardly needs another surly, ugly, unpopular half-orc. Some half-orcs ought to be nice.

Liberty's Edge

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FancyZergling wrote:
Or a dervish dancer build could work as well.

Only if you're gonna not wear armor. No armor is light enough not to encumber you when you add in a scimitar.

On a more general note, I'd go Charisma and go Conversion Inquisitor, as suggested, or grab the student of Philosophy Trait. The 4 will hurt a bit, but be doable with that.


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Put it in con. Nobody needs con.


4 constitution? Hardmode enabled.

Honestly, I would say either charisma (play him as having a strict moral philosophy of radical honesty, meaning he has no internal filter and literally speaks anything that pops into his head, no matter how crude, rude of vulgar)

Or, alternatively, wisdom. Play him as being trusting to a fault, eternally happy-go-lucky, slow, but loyal if easily distracted and manipulable.

Scarab Sages

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I like the wisdom idea for roleplaying a paladin as well. If you ever had a friend or relative that is an eternal screwup - always making the wrong choices over and over, ruins every break or chance you give him or her, and probably ended up in jail once or twice, so much that you went from being sorry for them to being sick of them over the years - that is what a low wis would is like. It would actually be kinda fun in a game (more than real life), much more fun than low cha.

And any class where you can bump up saves, like paladin, will be doable game-wise. Or take traits and feats that bump up either will, or specifically saves vs fear (it makes sense you wouldn't be afraid, but might be impulsive)

Low CON would be a Raistlin-like character. Which you might find fun but for me I'd think "that's been done already". But it would be just doable.

Grand Lodge

I second Inquisitor.

Dump charisma.


Since the campaign is called Mummy's Mask maybe the OP is kind of concerned that Mummy Rot could be a more prevalent danger than it is in other games. This could make low Cha quite dangerous and low Con even worse than usual.


I have to second the Oracle of Lore idea, but suggest Lunar instead. The bestial profile makes more sense to me, then Lore for a Half Orc. Noble Scion, if you argue that your scion status comes from a distant, more brutal land like the Land of the Linnorm kings, then you can still be 'noble'. Plus, you get to come up with a reason for going from one side of Avistan to Garund


Wizard, Sorcerer, Oracle with a mystery that gives 'mage armor' as a revelation, or a Kensai Magus. Classes that by nature doesn't use armor. Put the 4 into str.

You carry around a weapon, and basically nothing else until you get a handy haversack.

Liberty's Edge

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thegreenteagamer wrote:
Am I the only one thinking Wizard, dump strength and make the party carry your stuff?

Shadow bait.


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Put the 4 in CON. For class, chose rogue. Dual wield daggers. Give him a name like 'Biff'. Then flank a monster so another monster can move up and flank you, making a 'flank sandwich' so to speak.

Have your next character ready to go (just plug in your newly rolled stats).


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Xedrek wrote:
Mino wrote:
It obviously depends strongly on the class you will play, though a 4 will hurt a lot, no matter where. Personally, I would do a Lore Oracle, with Sidestep Secret and Noble Scion (War), put the 4 in Dex an the 17 in Cha. The only thing aside from skills you use Dex for will be your CMD, which I think would be alright as a primary caster.
Would also gimp his initiative. Normally want to avoid if possible. Could always put it into Con and then apply an undead template

Or put in CON, so you can die quickly and hopefully do point buy next time.

Liberty's Edge

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Much as I hate rolling for stats, I don't think deep-sixing a character intentionally so you can reroll is usually appropriate. By agreeing to use rolled characters, you are implicitly entering a social contract to abide by what you roll, and not do that sort of thing.

Violating that social contract is the same reason cheating on dice rolls is wrong, and wrong to about the same degree.


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That's the beauty of it. With a 4 CON, you won't even have to try or do it intentionally. It's just gonna happen.

Reminds me of all the stories where someone who is blatantly unqualified for a dangerous career decides he's going to do it anyway, then gets himself killed, thus serving as a warning to others.

Liberty's Edge

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Zhayne wrote:
That's the beauty of it. With a 4 CON, you won't even have to try or do it intentionally. It's just gonna happen.

I'd strongly argue that putting 4 in Con is trying to do it intentionally.


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+1 for CON. Really, people should stop rolling for stats.


Nah, 4 con then playing a Sorcerer with Blood Money and Fabricate Bullets as your two spells known - that's intentional. Even if you really, really want to make blood bullets for your sorcerer's sling.


Constitution 4? That's like that old sickly guy in the movie Prometheus, hooked up to machines just to keep him breathing, but still out exploring an alien planet.


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Dekalinder wrote:
+1 for CON. Really, people should stop rolling for stats.

Throw in racial -2 by playing an elf. Look at the GM in the eye and DARE him to call you on it.


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number one on my list of reasons to hate rolling for stats. (number 2 is when you roll god-mode stats - that's almost as bad!)

Personally if i was in a game where the DM insisted on rolling and I got a 4 I'd throw it back and roll again. If he didn't like that, that 4 is going straight in con and I'm playing a fighter who lost his armour. If he didn't like that he's be a player light.

I want to play a HERO dagnabbit...

And that social contract extends to ensuring that you have a playable character - by the players standard, not the DMs. The game is supposed to be fun for all.

Still if you insisted on playing a character with a stat of 4, dump int. If you put your favoured class bonus into skill points you still get 2 skills/level, Int doesn't affect another key mechanic, and it isn't as vulnerable as most stats to poison/ability drain etc.

The Exchange

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Dragonhuntereq - That 4 is definitely a handicap. But some of us take it as a challenge to make that character a hero anyhow. I GMed once for a player who (after racial adjustment) had a Str 4 cleric. She ran the cleric more like a wizard (no armor, back-row, buff and debuff focus) and relied more heavily than most clerics on her martial buddies, but she pulled through & achieved greatness. A big ugly stat weakness is definitely not for everybody, but if you succeed in spite of one, you really feel like you've accomplished something. Heck, I remember that cleric far more clearly than the anonymous mass of meaty priests who preceded and followed her.

Your advice on Int 4 is sound (depending on class choice, of course), and everybody should at least once have the joy of role-playing a character who takes three tries to put on his pants in the morning. (It can be especially hilarious if you put your best roll in Wis to create a sort of 'idiot savant' or 'feral child'.)


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

put it in Con, then play the game like it's on very hard difficulty.


thegreenteagamer wrote:
Dekalinder wrote:
+1 for CON. Really, people should stop rolling for stats.
Throw in racial -2 by playing an elf. Look at the GM in the eye and DARE him to call you on it.

At least you'd get to re-roll stats fairly quickly ... ya know, on your new character.


Lincoln Hills wrote:

Dragonhuntereq - That 4 is definitely a handicap. But some of us take it as a challenge to make that character a hero anyhow. I GMed once for a player who (after racial adjustment) had a Str 4 cleric. She ran the cleric more like a wizard (no armor, back-row, buff and debuff focus) and relied more heavily than most clerics on her martial buddies, but she pulled through & achieved greatness. A big ugly stat weakness is definitely not for everybody, but if you succeed in spite of one, you really feel like you've accomplished something. Heck, I remember that cleric far more clearly than the anonymous mass of meaty priests who preceded and followed her.

Accepted - that's why I added the 'Still...' - I know some see it as a challenge.

And I accept it created a memorable character for you as GM, but how did the other players feel babysitting that character? They may not have minded, but there are at least as many players out there that would resent a character not pulling their weight in their perceived role. And it is a social game, so if I wanted to challenge myself in that way, I think in fairness I would have to check the other players would be happy about that too. One mans meat and all that... :)


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First agreeing to roll for stats and than making a character that will die immediately ON PURPOSE because your rolls dind't agree with you feels dishonest to me. Frankly, if you do not want to do random roll you should say so before you roll.
Most people here probably wouldn't be against rolling if they had rolled three 18s...

Its is a greater challange to build and play a character this way. It's why you roll in the first place.

Liberty's Edge

Mino wrote:
First agreeing to roll for stats and than making a character that will die immediately ON PURPOSE because your rolls dind't agree with you feels dishonest to me. Frankly, if you do not want to do random roll you should say so before you roll.

Agreed entirely. If you aren't willing to deal with rolling, say so upfront, and loudly if needed.

Mino wrote:
Most people here probably wouldn't be against rolling if they had rolled three 18s...

Actually, I got very nearly that on the last Pathfinder character I rolled. I still hate rolling for stats, because my problem with rolling isn't my character being potentially too weak, it's the characters not being balanced with each other, which I hate in a game system and strive to minimize.

Mino wrote:
Its is a greater challange to build and play a character this way. It's why you roll in the first place.

Yeah...that's not fun for me at all, either.


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I'm surprised no one has mentioned synthesist summoner yet. Put your 4 in Strength and then play a character whose own Strength doesn't matter.


Putting a 4 in con isn't trying to get you killed it is just playing with the rolls you have been given.

A 4 in any stat will gimp you so it is just a trade off between survivability or competence.


A 4 in Cha definitely won't gimp an Inquisitor.

So many options to use Wis instead of Cha for dem skills mang.

The Exchange

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A four in con and become a elf wizard slap it down and look the gm in the face and say hard mode engaged


Deadmanwalking wrote:


Mino wrote:
Most people here probably wouldn't be against rolling if they had rolled three 18s...

Actually, I got very nearly that on the last Pathfinder character I rolled. I still hate rolling for stats, because my problem with rolling isn't my character being potentially too weak, it's the characters not being balanced with each other, which I hate in a game system and strive to minimize.

Mino wrote:
Its is a greater challange to build and play a character this way. It's why you roll in the first place.
Yeah...that's not fun for me at all, either.

Oh, I agree. Which is why we seldom roll for stats (and when we roll, everyone uses the same set).

Wind Chime wrote:

Putting a 4 in con isn't trying to get you killed it is just playing with the rolls you have been given.

A 4 in any stat will gimp you so it is just a trade off between survivability or competence.

As long as you don't have a way to replace Con with something else, it is. A 4 Con means 0.5 to 3.5 HP on average at first level. That is not a character, that's a punchline.

It's the responsibility of every player to bring a viable character. A 4 Con jut isn't.

Rynjin wrote:


A 4 in Cha definitely won't gimp an Inquisitor.

So many options to use Wis instead of Cha for dem skills mang.

Actually, all those are in addition to Cha, not instead. So you will still have that -3 penalty. :(

Liberty's Edge

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Mino wrote:
Actually, all those are in addition to Cha, not instead. So you will still have that -3 penalty. :(

Not the Conversion Inquisition. That's a straight replacement. For almost everything.


Damn, I knew I missed something... ;)


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Deadmanwalking wrote:
Zhayne wrote:
That's the beauty of it. With a 4 CON, you won't even have to try or do it intentionally. It's just gonna happen.
I'd strongly argue that putting 4 in Con is trying to do it intentionally.

I'd strongly argue that a GM who sees you rolled a 4 and makes you keep it is trying to get you killed. At that level even if you put it in charisma on a class that has no use for the stat you're in deep water anytime you face something that can attack your charisma stat. Goblin dogs just got a whole lot scarier...


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put it into con, play the half orc you rolled, and go Cavalier (standard Bearer) or a Tactician fighter or something similar. have your high stat be str like normal but make sure you get high stats in wisdom and int and then bump your con any chance you get. roleplay as a near-middle aged man who has seen many wars, and it currently recovering from a mortal wound. explain why you're hesitant to work on the frontlines and instead dedicate yourself to the tactics of combat, help direct the party at any chance you get and make sure you all really work together. would be a fun character to play, and you could do it to show all these min/maxers that a gimped character can be more useful than a great one in the right pair of hands.


Deadmanwalking wrote:
FancyZergling wrote:
Or a dervish dancer build could work as well.

Only if you're gonna not wear armor. No armor is light enough not to encumber you when you add in a scimitar.

On a more general note, I'd go Charisma and go Conversion Inquisitor, as suggested, or grab the student of Philosophy Trait. The 4 will hurt a bit, but be doable with that.

Dervish dancing kensai magus


4 Dex make an oracle choose nature mystery take natures whisper as a revelation, that uses cha to AC.

Take the Lame curse (reason why your dex is so low)

Then multi class into barbarian and eventually PRC into Rage Prophet.

Be a half elf, take raised by elves warrior of old (+2 init) and improved initiative feat and all your initiative issues are covered.

you will have very few skills that are dex based.

Would make for a very interesting Two handed fighting spell caster.

Silver Crusade

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My current kingmaker PC is a paladin with rolled stats, and I put the 5 into intelligence.

I swapped out the human bonus skill point, but with the minimum 1 skill point and the favoured class bonus that's still 2 skill points per level, and it doesn't really hurt me at all. It just provides a role-playing hook.

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