Archetypes You'd Like to See


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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What are some archetypes you'd like to see? I'm hoping we'll get a few archetypes in the ACG. Here are some I'd like to see:

Archetypes for specialist wizards
Gun-focused Magus (something you occasionally see in anime)
Wildshape focused Druid
Fighter with grit-like abilities

What are some archetypes you'd like to see?


Fighter with full casting
Rogue with full BAB
Monk with wildshape
Wizard with mount
Paladin with grit
Ranger with a bloodline
Druid with cavalier order
Druid with guns
Cleric with paladin code
Rogue with rage powers
Barbarian with ritual summoning

Mainly because seeing the devs make all that work would amuse me.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

Marcus Robert Hosler wrote:

Fighter with full casting

Rogue with full BAB
Monk with wildshape
Wizard with mount
Paladin with grit
Ranger with a bloodline
Druid with cavalier order
Druid with guns
Cleric with paladin code
Rogue with rage powers
Barbarian with ritual summoning

Mainly because seeing the devs make all that work would amuse me.

Archetypes don't change BAB or grant casting, though the other stuff you mentioned is fair game.

Paladin with Grit: Holy Gun
Monk with Wildshape: Tranquil Guardian can take cat forms (which are the best forms so it's fine).


Chaotic Good Paladin
Lawful Evil Paladin
True Neutral Paladin
In fact every possible paladinoid except the already extant paladin and antipaladin

wild shaping barbarian
Completely Pet-less unmounted Cavalier that still has Tactician

Uncursed Oracle (or spontaneous cleric, but I don't think the archetype design rules allow a switch from prepared to spontaneous)


I like the animal companion and mount-less cavalier. 3E had a spontaneous divine caster that was fairly boring, if Paizo did a non-Oracle spontaneous divine caster I think it could be cool.

I'd like to see archetypes that mix up spell lists. I made suggestions for a CG paladin in a thread a few months ago, some very good game designers have made non-LG paladins and none have had stellar success. I'd like to replace the all-or-nothing paladin fall with 'grace points.' You would be able to earn and lose grace points. You would need one or two or three grace points for various paladin abilities (like some gunslinger abilities require having at least one grit point, which doesn't get spent). There could be a mechanic to spend a grace point like a hero point, for a tough encounter. But that would limit some paladin abilities until it was earned back (one of my house rules is that a paladin falls from grace starting the next day, in a tough fight with a dragon or demon or devil having a paladin fall is tough for the party).


Petty Alchemy wrote:
Marcus Robert Hosler wrote:

Fighter with full casting

Rogue with full BAB
Monk with wildshape
Wizard with mount
Paladin with grit
Ranger with a bloodline
Druid with cavalier order
Druid with guns
Cleric with paladin code
Rogue with rage powers
Barbarian with ritual summoning

Mainly because seeing the devs make all that work would amuse me.

Archetypes don't change BAB or grant casting, though the other stuff you mentioned is fair game.

Paladin with Grit: Holy Gun
Monk with Wildshape: Tranquil Guardian can take cat forms (which are the best forms so it's fine).

Plus, there is a paladin with ki through the Irorian Paladin. It trades away smite evil for a more versatile ability (+1-+6 bonus, and can spend ki to ignore their DR). They can also add CHA to DEX for AC in light armor (you will hit max dex SO easily).

And heck, they can write their own paladin code (so lets lie, cheat, and poison! I have been itching for a good Friday night for a while)

Dark Archive

Alchemist:
* A mad-bomber-type bomb-focused alchemist that loses the mutagens and some of its other stuff for additional bomb-related features
* Artificer variant of Alchemist that builds gadgets and such
* A poison-focused Alchemist that can craft poisons more quickly/on the fly, boost poison DCs, and the like
* Edited in: An ooze-focused alchemist whose mutagen turns them into an ooze-like form

Druid:
* Some manner of plant-controlling Druid that isn't restricted to elves-only

Oracle:
* Some manner of plane-based Oracle whose mystery-powers operate based on a fundamental connection to one of the planes. This could probably be accomplished with a set of mysteries instead of an archetype, but I think it still fits the thread's general theme.

Paladin:
* CG/LE Paladin to cover the other two corner-alignments (with the CG having anti-law and the LE having anti-chaos since the LG covers anti-evil and the CE covers anti-good)

Summoner:
* Summoner archetype that constructs Golems/constructs
* Summoner archetype that specializes in summon a particular type of Outsider (Archon/Angel/Agatheon/Azata/Inevitable/Aeon/Kami/Psychopomp/Elemental/Prot ean/Devil/Kyton/Asura/Rakshasha/Oni/Daemon/Demon/Qlippoth, Also one for Nightshades even those are technically undead)
* Summoner-as-a-necromancer archetype that summons undead and has a customized undead thing instead of an eidolon

Wizard:
* Some sort of staff-specialized wizard that's better at using spells from staves (DC boost, spend spell slots to cast spells the staff can without using stave charges) but suffers in terms of other casting flexibility
* A white necromancer who can animate non-evil undead (perhaps by summoning up ancestors / only being able to animate those who were willing prior to their death / using some manner of metaphysical trickery to get around the 'wrapping up a positive-energy soul with negative energy is evil because of how it affects the soul' thing)

Those are the ones that spring to my mind as concepts that I've wanted to play / have in a game that I found haven't been available in official material (so far as I know). Third party stuff is doing pretty well on the white necromancer one, but I'd still like to see official support for the role.

Dark Archive

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Religious Witch who can take domains instead of Patrons.


Atarlost wrote:

Chaotic Good Paladin

Lawful Evil Paladin
True Neutral Paladin
In fact every possible paladinoid except the already extant paladin and antipaladin

wild shaping barbarian
Completely Pet-less unmounted Cavalier that still has Tactician

Uncursed Oracle (or spontaneous cleric, but I don't think the archetype design rules allow a switch from prepared to spontaneous)

If you are interested in Alternate alignment paladin's please stay tuned for My Kickstarter Release!

Dark Archive

Alchemist archetypes that give up mutagen and/or bombs (or a pair of them that each give up one and can be used together). I still don't understand why Vivisectionist is not allowed in PFS, but I don't like that every alcehmist is pegged into being a mad bomber/Dr. Jekyll.

A swashbuckler version of the Aldori fighter archetype. Lower priority, but I think the class lends itself well to the dueling master vibe. Would be great if it stacked with the prestige class like the fighter archetype does.

Slayer archetype with poison abilities. Why should alchemists get all the cool poison toys? I think the assassin thing the slayer has going would synergize well with such abilities.


I'd like to see a bard archetype that trades all spell casting for more bardic performance abilities.


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Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

How about a summoner archetype that reverses the usual relationship between summoner and eidolon, with the summoner being on the front line of combat and the eidolon being the spellcaster who buffs the summoner?

Liberty's Edge

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Lord Gadigan wrote:


Wizard:
* A white necromancer who can animate non-evil undead (perhaps by summoning up ancestors / only being able to animate those who were willing prior to their death / using some manner of metaphysical trickery to get around the 'wrapping up a positive-energy soul with negative energy is evil because of how it affects the soul' thing)

It's an actual class as opposed to an archetype, but you might check out the White Necromancer class in the New Paths Compendium from Kobold Press!

The class does pretty much exactly what you are describing! :)


Atarlost wrote:

Chaotic Good Paladin

Lawful Evil Paladin
True Neutral Paladin
In fact every possible paladinoid except the already extant paladin and antipaladin

wild shaping barbarian

Bloodrager and warpriest will have your back this time next month.


Lord Gadigan wrote:

Summoner:

* Summoner archetype that specializes in summon a particular type of Outsider (Archon/Angel/Agatheon/Azata/Inevitable/Aeon/Kami/Psychopomp/Elemental/Prot ean/Devil/Kyton/Asura/Rakshasha/Oni/Daemon/Demon/Qlippoth, Also one for Nightshades even those are technically undead)

That seems a little too close to Planar Shepard to me. Especially if it keeps the Twin Souls capstone.

The CG/LE/LN paladins that everyone wants would probably have to be alternate classes more than archetypes just as the CE paladin is an archetype. It still fits the general theme of the thread though.

What I'd want is a rogue archetype that actually focuses on stealth. The slayer is really want I want so it's not a huge deal but it's just funny to me that they made an archetype for the getaway driver in a heist movie before the stealthy killer. Skulking in the shadows is what immediately comes to mind when I think of a rogue and it's the focus of two different prestige classes (Assassin and Shadowdancer.)


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Mighty Morphing Arcane caster


Codeless Paladin. That can mix with other archetypes. Full stop.


Ditto on the Alchemist that can focus on being a tinkerer, doing more with gadgets.
Or super-boomy alchemist mix of alchemist and gunslinger.

Elemental themed monk or ninja. Monk of the 4 winds starts with elemental fist, but doesn't really keep that elemental theme.

Ninja archetypes in general...currently they can only use a few of the rogue archetypes.

More cavalier/samurai that trade out the Mount ability.


Rogue archetype that trades sneak attack for Inspire Courage and other bardic abilities. Can still get Rogue talents.
Maybe a few rogue talents boost Bardic Courage (grant evasion while inspiring at same time)?

Bard who gets cavalier challenge and orders.

Sovereign Court

A rogue or maybe ranger or any class really that can do fun stuff with blowguns.


Wow, a lot of really cool archetypes. I doubt we'l see any of our suggestions in ACG (unless they're already in the works for ACG), but hopefully we'll see some of them at some point.

One more I'd like to see- a fighter archetype with weapon bond, similar to a paladin's but extraordinary instead of supernatural. It seems to me that a fighter should be able to do cool combat-related things other martials can do. Maybe we'll see this in Pathfinder Unleashed, if not in the ACG.


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Spontaneous casting fueled by me grit

"Vampiric" spontaneous casting fueled by foe failed saving throws

Instant temporary ally item enchanting fueled by me sacrificial ability drain

"Vampiric" ally item enchanting fueled as ally does sunder

Rage fueled by damage me deal

"Vampiric" healing fueled by damage ally deals

Dark Archive

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I'd like to see a bard archetype focusing on fire performances. Twirling around flaming chains, breathing fire, all the things an entertainer with a pyromaniac bent would just love to have.


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Ben Gum wrote:
I'd like to see a bard archetype focusing on fire performances. Twirling around flaming chains, breathing fire, all the things an entertainer with a pyromaniac bent would just love to have.

Great idea! Along those lines, elemental cleric archetypes would be cool. Taking earth, fire, air, and water domains a step further might be fun.


Didn't bother reading most of what was posted so bare with me if this has been said. Monk with domain powers or inquisitions. I think it already fits due to the Lawful requirements and he could do wonderfully and become useful with the Plant domain or the Anger Inquisition.


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I'll add another vote to alchemists that trade away either mutagens or bombs. I'd love to play an alchemist, but I have issues coming up with a concept that encompasses both.

A Rogue archetype that trades away sneak attack for something.

A Magus archetype that focuses more on spell casting(more spells per day).

A Spontaneous Magus and Inquisitor. A Prepared Casting Bard.

A Druid that trades away wild shape.


Lord Gadigan wrote:

Alchemist:

* A mad-bomber-type bomb-focused alchemist that loses the mutagens and some of its other stuff for additional bomb-related features
* Artificer variant of Alchemist that builds gadgets and such

Summoner:
* Summoner archetype that constructs Golems/constructs

These are what I was going to suggest with the addition of the Golem/Construct Summoner being Int based.

Liberty's Edge

revaar wrote:
I'll add another vote to alchemists that trade away either mutagens or bombs. I'd love to play an alchemist, but I have issues coming up with a concept that encompasses both.

Vivisectionist trades out bombs. And Mindchemist technically trades out Mutagens for Cognatogens. And Investigator, while another class, has neither of these but maintains Alchemist casting. And can get Mutagen if they like.

revaar wrote:
A Druid that trades away wild shape.

The Feral Child Archetype does this, though it's human only.


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A Sumo archetype for Monks


Can I get a magus/alchemist blend?

Scarab Sages

Deadmanwalking wrote:


revaar wrote:
A Druid that trades away wild shape.
The Feral Child Archetype does this, though it's human only.

Survivor does it as well and isn't race restricted.


aceDiamond wrote:
Atarlost wrote:

Chaotic Good Paladin

Lawful Evil Paladin
True Neutral Paladin
In fact every possible paladinoid except the already extant paladin and antipaladin

wild shaping barbarian

Bloodrager and warpriest will have your back this time next month.

No they won't. They are exactly what I am not looking for.

3/4 BAB is not full BAB. It never will be. Being able to nova with fewer wasted actions does not make the war priest not a nova or nothing class.

Bloodrager does not even resemble a proper war shaper.


Desperado- this is a Bard Gunslinger. I suggested to our GM when we played a Magnificent 7 gunslinger game.


A nature-based wizard. An arcane druid of some sort. You could limit and add some themed spells to an envirocaster (I have nothing for the name yet). Either way, I've always thought that there could and should be a strong relationship between nature and arcane magic, and an arcane druid could add some flavor and a twist to the traditional druid type.

Shadow Lodge

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A pure mundane anti caster, using anti magic energy to take the place of the Christmas tree effect at mid to high levels.


I would like for Pathfinder Unchained (or a future supplement) to make class abilities more a large carte, so that you can build the character you want without having to wait for (and wade through) a profusion of archetypes.

Short of that, a lot of the archetypes I would like to see would be multiples archetypes/blended alternate classes:

Scholastic Summoner and Scholastic Master Summoner = prepared spell versions of these, with Familiars that are Evolved in their normal forms and like mini-Synthesists in their Eidolon forms.

Thaumaturgist = prepared divine spell (including altered spell list) casting Summoner specializing in a particular type of Outsider (like the Planar Shepard idea above).

Arcane Fist = Magus-Monk blend (actually surprised Paizo did not do this already). Would also like a divine version, but need to wait and see if the upcoming Warpriest would be a better chassis for this.

Sorcerous Witch = Sorcerer that uses Witch spell list and gets a Hex instead of Eschew Materials, and can get more with Extra Hex, which also becomes a Bloodline Feat; this let's you play a Witch who can't spell, but who is not hosed by Familiar loss (if even applicable), and who can run for political office.

For (sort of) non-multiclass archetypes (since they do not have the Alternate Class prohibition):

Arcane Trickster Base Classes = Sorcerer and Wizard archetypes that trade out bonus feats and some Bloodline abilities for Sneak Attack and Impromptu Sneak Attack, and qualification for some Rogue Talents/Ninja Trick (these do not forbid Rogue/Ninja levels, and stack with them); this enables a 1-seat ride into Arcane Trickster Prestige Class.

Battle Herald Cavalier trades out Cavalier's Charge and Bonus Feats for Bardic Performance (starting with Inspire Courage and going up the "Inspire" chain; if you get later Bardic Performances from another class you get a refund on the Bonus Feats); this enables a 1-seat ride into Battle Herald Prestige Class, while allowing mixing with Cavalier archetypes that trade out Mount such as Huntmaster).

A Magus ranged archetype that isn't nerfed to the point of unusability (which Myrmidarch is).


Poison focused Archetype Alchemist or Investigator


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Some kind of engineer/gadgeteer/mad inventor (preferably without magic/spellcasting being mandatory).


AsmodeusUltima wrote:
Alchemist archetypes that give up mutagen and/or bombs (or a pair of them that each give up one and can be used together). I still don't understand why Vivisectionist is not allowed in PFS, but I don't like that every alcehmist is pegged into being a mad bomber/Dr. Jekyll.

I'm pretty sure that vivisectionist is banned because it LOOKS unbalanced. I mean, sneak attack by it self is nothing but at 20th lv. you've got +8 str from mutagen, +4 str from bulls str infusion AND 10d6 sneak attack. That looks highly unbalanced (I say looks from a just quick look at the numbers, after doing the math it's probably not as bad as it looks.)

Most classes only have two ways to give them a small boost to attack and damage OR one bigger way. Barbarian gets rage, cleric gets spells and some domain powers, druid gets wild shape and bulls str, fighter gets weapon training and wep spec, ranger gets favored enemy and bulls str AND lead blades, Paladin gets smite and divine bond, ect.

The bard actually gets a lot as well but nobody complains about them for some reason. They are essentially a full BAB, 6 Lv caster, with 6+int skill points.

Scarab Sages

Rapthorn2ndform wrote:
AsmodeusUltima wrote:
Alchemist archetypes that give up mutagen and/or bombs (or a pair of them that each give up one and can be used together). I still don't understand why Vivisectionist is not allowed in PFS, but I don't like that every alcehmist is pegged into being a mad bomber/Dr. Jekyll.

I'm pretty sure that vivisectionist is banned because it LOOKS unbalanced. I mean, sneak attack by it self is nothing but at 20th lv. you've got +8 str from mutagen, +4 str from bulls str infusion AND 10d6 sneak attack. That looks highly unbalanced (I say looks from a just quick look at the numbers, after doing the math it's probably not as bad as it looks.)

Vivisectionist is banned because the fluff is evil. It is based on anatomy murder as a rationale for it's abilities.

Although, the fact that it obsoletes the rogue in EVERY way probably didn't hurt.


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Archetypes:

Druid that gives up wildshape for more casting power or a resource to empower casting.

Bard designed for throwing weapons (darts daggers) or magical disguise and mimicry

Samurai- with more mystical power slant

Cavalier with a focus on camels

Wizard- with archetypes for the spell schools


Marc Radle wrote:
Lord Gadigan wrote:


Wizard:
* A white necromancer who can animate non-evil undead (perhaps by summoning up ancestors / only being able to animate those who were willing prior to their death / using some manner of metaphysical trickery to get around the 'wrapping up a positive-energy soul with negative energy is evil because of how it affects the soul' thing)

It's an actual class as opposed to an archetype, but you might check out the White Necromancer class in the New Paths Compendium from Kobold Press!

The class does pretty much exactly what you are describing! :)

Equally, though I know this thread is more about archetypes people wish to see from Paizo, you could check out the Ossuarite Druid Archetype - summons a skeletal animal companion and bony nature's allies. Even gets a skeletal aspect for that uber-chic gaunt, come wither look.

Scarab Sages

Oceanshieldwolf wrote:
Marc Radle wrote:
Lord Gadigan wrote:


Wizard:
* A white necromancer who can animate non-evil undead (perhaps by summoning up ancestors / only being able to animate those who were willing prior to their death / using some manner of metaphysical trickery to get around the 'wrapping up a positive-energy soul with negative energy is evil because of how it affects the soul' thing)

It's an actual class as opposed to an archetype, but you might check out the White Necromancer class in the New Paths Compendium from Kobold Press!

The class does pretty much exactly what you are describing! :)

Equally, though I know this thread is more about archetypes people wish to see from Paizo, you could check out the Ossuarite Druid Archetype - summons a skeletal animal companion and bony nature's allies. Even gets a skeletal aspect for that uber-chic gaunt, come wither look.

I'm looking forward to the White Mage arcanist in the ACG.


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A sword saint that don't sucks...

Dark Archive

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Lord Gadigan wrote:

Summoner:

* Summoner archetype that constructs Golems/constructs
* Summoner archetype that specializes in summon a particular type of Outsider (Archon/Angel/Agatheon/Azata/Inevitable/Aeon/Kami/Psychopomp/Elemental/Prot ean/Devil/Kyton/Asura/Rakshasha/Oni/Daemon/Demon/Qlippoth, Also one for Nightshades even those are technically undead)
* Summoner-as-a-necromancer archetype that summons undead and has a customized undead thing instead of an eidolon

The Summoner makes a great potential toolkit for variations based on schools other than conjuration.

A Necromancy-themed summoner would have an undead eidolon, and swap out a bunch of conjuration spells for necromancy spells.

An Enchantment-based summoner would swap out conjuration for enchantment/charm spells, and the eidolon for a lasting form of dominate person / monster that they can use to have a perma-cohort / mindthrall sort of ally.

A Transmutation-based summoner would have an animated object or other construct in place of an eidolon, and assorted transmutation spells in place of conjuration spells.

An Illusion-themed summoner would swap out illusions for conjurations, and have a shadow-creature eidolon (only quasi-real, but much easier to resummon / replace if it gets ganked).

Shadow Lodge

An Elementalist Druid who gives up normal wildshape for elemental wildshape only, and gains bonuses with one element[and penalties with its opposite].

A Druid archetype that is shapeshifting-focused.

Iron Druid

Fighter Archetype focused on forgoing full attacks for single-attacks.

Summoner Archetype focused on fighting with his/her eidolon

Oracle Archetype that gets a bloodline instead of a mystery

Sorcerer Archetype that gets a Mystery instead of a bloodline

Magus Archetype that gets Arcane Schools to specialize in

Universalist Wizard Archetype that gives you bonus spell slots if you prepare spells from all the different schools

Specialist Wizard Archetype that gives you a bonus to your caster level in place of bonus spell slots for specializing.

Cleric Archetype focused entirely on making channel energy really good.

More to come.

Scarab Sages

EvilPaladin wrote:
Fighter Archetype focused on forgoing full attacks for single-attacks.

Ustalavic Duelist from Inner Sea Combat does this by enhancing Vital Strike.

Shadow Lodge

Imbicatus wrote:
EvilPaladin wrote:
Fighter Archetype focused on forgoing full attacks for single-attacks.
Ustalavic Duelist from Inner Sea Combat does this by enhancing Vital Strike.

Eh, I was thinking more along the lines of cleaving monsters in two with a single blow from your greatsword, or 1-hit KO punch single attacks then a single carefully-aimed strike with a rapier, though I believe Brawler is getting the 1-hit KO option.


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I'm just going to pipe in quick and suggest that people check out our Multiclass Archetypes wiki. We have over 150+ creations, crafted through mass collaberation. These are all a mash of a primary class base, that swaps in class features from a secondary class (or unique class features to add flavor and uniqueness) using the archetypes mechanic. Very similar to what Paizo has done to create their new Base classes in the ACG (or the Magus too).

We have many of the concepts you guys/gals are suggesting.

1) A prepared spellcasting bard called the Erudite Bard

2) A construct-oriented summoner called the Clockwork Mage

3) A gun-focused magus called the Spellgun Magus

4) A cleric with a paladin code called the Divine Exemplar

5) A wild shaping barbarian called the Spirit Warrior

6) A mountless cavalier called the Supreme Warlord

7) An alchemist that gives up bombs and mutagens in favor of poison focus called the Venom Blade

8) A rogue with some bardic performances called the Adept Scoundrel

9) Even a magus/alchemist blend called the Detonator Mage

10) We also have given the antipaladin and ninja some love with our various MCAs (check our Primary Class list)

Plus many concepts people have mentioned here that haven't been done yet. For those, if anyone is interested, you can join me and the rest of us on the Multiclass Archetypes VIII thread and get help building your concept yourself.

Our builds are flexible to individual taste and flavor, and we work with you to make what you want (within reason). We try to stay within the Paizo concepts and rules, but bend some to get the flavor and build the conceptualizer wants. So if you'd like to build your own "hybrid" base class by combining the abilities of two classes, come on over. Love us or hate us, we're here, and have been doing this for 3+ years now.


Atarlost wrote:
aceDiamond wrote:
Atarlost wrote:

Chaotic Good Paladin

Lawful Evil Paladin
True Neutral Paladin
In fact every possible paladinoid except the already extant paladin and antipaladin

wild shaping barbarian

Bloodrager and warpriest will have your back this time next month.

No they won't. They are exactly what I am not looking for.

3/4 BAB is not full BAB. It never will be. Being able to nova with fewer wasted actions does not make the war priest not a nova or nothing class.

Bloodrager does not even resemble a proper war shaper.

There is a spell that makes you a mini-paladin you know...

and Actually An Arcane bloodrager can use Form of the Dragon while raging...

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