Archetypes You'd Like to See


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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Ideally this would be a Swashbuckler Archetype but it might work as a Fighter or mountless Cavalier:

Full BAB.
Light armor and Canny Defense.
Some kind of Canny Offense to add INT to damage rolls.
Pool points/X per day for swift action moves, allowing a move and full attack or extreme charges.
Pool points/X per day for enemy to save or be forced to close to melee.
4+ skills per level, more would be fine though.
two good saves.

Anything else would be gravy for me, weapon training or more uses for pool points/X per days.

Been wanting for ages to play an intelligent melee character who gets legitimate uses out of a high intelligence.


While not an "intelligence fighter" per say (The Investigator kind of fills htat roll), the Swashbuckler Base Class in Advanced Class Guide is pretty much what you want..


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Sorcerer and Magus versions of the Spellslinger.


I would love to see a large scale Rogue archetype for Two Weapon Fighting that makes TWF a decent choice for a medium BAB character. There is a precedent for Rogues being fantastic TWFrs, for instance: In the original Dragon Age only Warriors and Rogues could go all the way to the top tier in TWF ability,eventualy being able to TWF with two one handed weapons like longswords. Based on that idea, I would love to see some of the TWF Fighter Archetype's abilities make it into this Rogue Archetype~

TWF Fighter Abilities that would fit:
Doublestrike (Ex): At 9th level, a two-weapon warrior may, as a standard action, make one attack with both his primary and secondary weapons. The penalties for attacking with two weapons apply normally. This ability replaces weapon training 2.

Improved Balance (Ex): At 11th level, the attack penalties for fighting with two weapons are reduced by –1 for a two-weapon warrior. Alternatively, he may use a one-handed weapon in his off-hand, treating it as if it were a light weapon with the normal light weapon penalties. This ability replaces armor training 3.

Equal Opportunity (Ex): At 13th level, when a two-weapon warrior makes an attack of opportunity, he may attack once with both his primary and secondary weapons. The penalties for attacking with two weapons apply normally. This ability replaces weapon training 3.

Perfect Balance (Ex): At 15th level, the penalties for fighting with two weapons are reduced by an additional –1 for a two-weapon warrior. This benefit stacks with improved balance. If he is using a one-handed weapon in his off hand, treating it as a light weapon, he uses the normal light weapon penalties. This ability replaces armor training 4.

They are still not a BAB class, and still have to invest in the TWF feat chain. But they would be able to do things like not have a -2 to all their (already Med BAB) attacks when using two Shortswords (Weapon Focus would actually provide a bonus rather than just being a desperate attempt to still be able to hit something). They could also do some iconic things like use two longswords or two rapiers in their fighting style.

....

I would also love to see a Rogue archetype that can play the part of assassin without PrCing into Assassin or being a Ninja. The way I see this Archetype it could go a few ways:

1. Give it the Assassinate talent like Ninja's have and maybe a few supporting abilities similar to the Assassin's Quiet Death and Quick Death abilities.

2. Make an Archetype that is truely for Stealth campaigns; this would probably not be great to play in a normal hack and slash campaign. In this case the Archetype could have abilities that expand on CDGs: CDG as a Standard Action, CDG w/out provoking AoO, CDG against foes who have various status effects (stunned), eventually culminating in the ability to CDG anyone who is unaware of you're location. This should probably be a subset of game rules for Stealth campaigns, rather than just an archetype for one class within an otherwise normal PF campaign..

3. You could make a Rogue Archetype that grants Knockout Blow as a talent and gives the Rogue the ability to use it multiple times per day. That way they can actually use it to infiltrate a place, rather than only being able to use it once per day. IMO that talent shouldn't be a once per day thing to begin with. I don't see a reason the Rogue shouldn't be able to do that unlimited times per day to any opponent subject to SA, excluding SA from flanking positions.


K177Y C47 wrote:
While not an "intelligence fighter" per say (The Investigator kind of fills htat roll), the Swashbuckler Base Class in Advanced Class Guide is pretty much what you want..

I've tried to make the concept out of the Duelist Prestige Class, A kensai Magus and have been watching Swashbuckler and Investigator previews intently... I like them all but none of them really satisfy my desire for really getting a lot of oomph out of an intelligence based Melee-ist and only the Magus can get a move and attack more than once with one or two of its spells. I'd actually like it as a spell-less class if possible. Heres hoping the ACG has just what i need though.


Torbyne wrote:
K177Y C47 wrote:
While not an "intelligence fighter" per say (The Investigator kind of fills htat roll), the Swashbuckler Base Class in Advanced Class Guide is pretty much what you want..
I've tried to make the concept out of the Duelist Prestige Class, A kensai Magus and have been watching Swashbuckler and Investigator previews intently... I like them all but none of them really satisfy my desire for really getting a lot of oomph out of an intelligence based Melee-ist and only the Magus can get a move and attack more than once with one or two of its spells. I'd actually like it as a spell-less class if possible. Heres hoping the ACG has just what i need though.

how open are you to 3rd party?


christos gurd wrote:
Torbyne wrote:
K177Y C47 wrote:
While not an "intelligence fighter" per say (The Investigator kind of fills htat roll), the Swashbuckler Base Class in Advanced Class Guide is pretty much what you want..
I've tried to make the concept out of the Duelist Prestige Class, A kensai Magus and have been watching Swashbuckler and Investigator previews intently... I like them all but none of them really satisfy my desire for really getting a lot of oomph out of an intelligence based Melee-ist and only the Magus can get a move and attack more than once with one or two of its spells. I'd actually like it as a spell-less class if possible. Heres hoping the ACG has just what i need though.
how open are you to 3rd party?

Not so much, the most open GM i'be met said he'd consider using the Psionics from DSP if i get the book. Based on limited chance to actually use 3PP i an not too inclined to spend money on them. The same thing happened once when i wanted to play a native outsider descended from a Pyschopomp, there is aparently a great 3PP for it but its too much effort finding an approving GM.


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ngc7293 wrote:

Desperado- this is a Bard Gunslinger. I suggested to our GM when we played a Magnificent 7 gunslinger game.

Does the Bard/Gunslinger sing:

"Desperado, why don't you come to your senses?
You been out ridin' fences for so long now
Oh, you're a hard one
I know that you got your reasons
These things that are pleasin' you
Can hurt you somehow...."

I would be singing this song everytime the "Desperado" was a the table. I couldn't help myself.. :) (Sorry)


Torbyne wrote:
christos gurd wrote:
Torbyne wrote:
K177Y C47 wrote:
While not an "intelligence fighter" per say (The Investigator kind of fills htat roll), the Swashbuckler Base Class in Advanced Class Guide is pretty much what you want..
I've tried to make the concept out of the Duelist Prestige Class, A kensai Magus and have been watching Swashbuckler and Investigator previews intently... I like them all but none of them really satisfy my desire for really getting a lot of oomph out of an intelligence based Melee-ist and only the Magus can get a move and attack more than once with one or two of its spells. I'd actually like it as a spell-less class if possible. Heres hoping the ACG has just what i need though.
how open are you to 3rd party?
Not so much, the most open GM i'be met said he'd consider using the Psionics from DSP if i get the book. Based on limited chance to actually use 3PP i an not too inclined to spend money on them. The same thing happened once when i wanted to play a native outsider descended from a Pyschopomp, there is aparently a great 3PP for it but its too much effort finding an approving GM.

thats too bad, the martialist base class from heroes of the east by little red goblin games is the smart fighter in a nutshell.


Isnt that always how it goes? Most of the people i game with will still joke about the ridiculous options available back in the 3.X days and i think thats where they get the 3PP stigma from...


K177Y C47 wrote:
Atarlost wrote:
aceDiamond wrote:
Atarlost wrote:

Chaotic Good Paladin

Lawful Evil Paladin
True Neutral Paladin
In fact every possible paladinoid except the already extant paladin and antipaladin

wild shaping barbarian

Bloodrager and warpriest will have your back this time next month.

No they won't. They are exactly what I am not looking for.

3/4 BAB is not full BAB. It never will be. Being able to nova with fewer wasted actions does not make the war priest not a nova or nothing class.

Bloodrager does not even resemble a proper war shaper.

There is a spell that makes you a mini-paladin you know...

and Actually An Arcane bloodrager can use Form of the Dragon while raging...

A mini-paladin is not a paladin. A paladin is always combat ready and doesn't have to waste resources on mooks. Someone getting cut down paladin abilities from a high level spell isn't.

The Druid can wildshape starting at level 4. When does form of the dragon come online? Does it offer huge forms by level 8? Does it get pounce? Does it last for hours so you're already shaped when a random encounter starts during overland travel? Of course not. It's based on a 6th level spell to start so it won't show before level 11. Probably 12 actually because they like to stick PFS capstones there. A warshaper that can't shape by level 5 isn't.


An archetype for the Fighter, Barbarian, or Ranger called the Beastbreaker. Their main feature is that they can Sunder natural weapons.


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Ventnor wrote:
An archetype for the Fighter, Barbarian, or Ranger called the Beastbreaker. Their main feature is that they can Sunder natural weapons.

Leads to some odd situations though, doesnt it? I can see a beastbreaker sundering an enemies natural unarmed strike and basically crippling the melee capacity of an enemy in a single hit. Or on a full attack, taking out all of an enemies natural attacks. Could be fun to completely "disarm" someone though and take it back as a prisoner. Makes the regeneration spell a lot more valuable too. :)

Dark Archive

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Torbyne wrote:
Ventnor wrote:
An archetype for the Fighter, Barbarian, or Ranger called the Beastbreaker. Their main feature is that they can Sunder natural weapons.
Leads to some odd situations though, doesnt it? I can see a beastbreaker sundering an enemies natural unarmed strike and basically crippling the melee capacity of an enemy in a single hit. Or on a full attack, taking out all of an enemies natural attacks. Could be fun to completely "disarm" someone though and take it back as a prisoner. Makes the regeneration spell a lot more valuable too. :)

If it only gives the natural weapon 'sundered' the broken condition, that's just a -2 to attack and damage rolls, and reduces critical stuff to 20/x2. It's not a terrible penalty, but still a useful thing, particularly if it nullifies special stuff like grab or poison until the wounded party receives some healing. (Like with the crippling effect of caltrops, it should be healable pretty easily, with any magical healing or a Heal check, and not require anything super high level like regenerate.)


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And really mess with spell caster/natural flyers with sundering throats and wings. Mind you, I am for these things.


"Themed" archetype sets. For example you have the Indiana joneish version of a coupe classes .. But the same work up for a Druid a wizard, still a different class, but a pulp fiction ancient ruins exploration version of them.

A version of a monk perhaps, which specializes in combat maneuvers. Trading in some powers perhaps for things which can enhance those maneuvers. For example, at a certain level can actually trip something multiple size categories larger. Their combat maneuver bonus tones up at a rate high enough to keep up with CMD - etcetera.

Sczarni

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An alchemist archetype based on the image of the Old West "snake oil salesman". Uses CHA instead of INT, and trades away mutagens and bombs for a few bardic performance abilities where he draws in a crowd and influences them. At high level, he's such a convincing salesman that he can actually improve his tonics by talking them up (a placebo effect?)

A character that focuses on poison would be nice, but the real obstacle to poison isn't the risk of poisoning yourself, it's the prohibitive cost of poison. The solution? A druid archetype that focuses on venomous animals and eventually gains the ability to produce any kind of poison on command.

Similarly, an antipaladin archetype that revolves around the Plague Beacon ability to make the antipally a walking Patient Zero. Anyone he hits with his evil LoH has to save vs. his diseases, he can summon diseases via his Profane Bond, etc.

An Inquisitor archetype that plays up the angle of uncovering secrets and tracking down the truth. Trades away Bane and the teamwork feats for some divination abilities.


RDM42 wrote:


{. . .}
A version of a monk perhaps, which specializes in combat maneuvers. Trading in some powers perhaps for things which can enhance those maneuvers. For example, at a certain level can actually trip something multiple size categories larger. Their combat maneuver bonus tones up at a rate high enough to keep up with CMD - etcetera.

For everybody except Halflings you want Maneuver Master. For Halflings, you want Underfoot Adept (which is really the one you want).

Now that we're at it, how about some other race specific archetypes, especially in the course of fleshing out some of the non-core races? For starters:

Changelings (including new names for some of the subtypes):

Hulking Rager (Barbarian archetype for Annis Changelings) trades out Fast Movement for the Wrecker Oracle's Curse (even in the absence of Oracle levels) and trades out Uncanny Dodge and Improved Uncanny Dodge for a permanent increase to Large size (the growth is actually gradual, but the changes are mechanically represented in 2 stages, of which the 2nd also gives back Fast Movement). Has the option to gain Strength or Constitution in place of a Rage Power. Also, need to fit Coven (and eventually Coven Anchor) and the limited Spell-Like Abilities in there somewhere, or maybe make these be Changeling-specific Feats. Actually, depending upon the final form of the ACG, might want to rebuild this as a Bloodrager archetype, although last time I checked, no Accused Bloodline was available for Bloodragers (but maybe Abyssal is okay for this).

Green-Faced Druid (Druid Archetype for Mutable Changelings) trades out Venom Immunity for Sound Mimicry and early onset of A Thousand Faces, and specializes Wild Shape to act as a "Humanoid Totem" archetype, eventually adding the ability to duplicate the Monstrous Physique and Giant Form spells, at the expense of being behind levels on normal Wild Shape. Also trades out Nature Bond and Spontaneous Casting for a swim speed, continuous Water Breathing (initially self-only and later usable on others), and some other thematically appropriate Spell-Like Abilities. Also, need to fit Coven (and eventually Coven Anchor) in there somewhere, or maybe make these be Changeling-specific Feats.

Sea Stalker (Rogue archetype for Seaborn Changelings) trades out Trap finding for Horrific Appearance, trades out Evasion for Amphibious SQ and a swim speed (improved swim speed if you already had one), trades out the Rogue Talents gained at 2nd and 4th level for Evil Eye and Greater Evil Eye (respectively), and thereafter can substitute Witch Hexes (eventually Major and then Grand) for Rogue Talents. Also, need to fit Coven (and eventually Coven Anchor) in there somewhere, or maybe make these be Changeling-specific Feats.

May post some more after I get back home and don't have to post from a phone.

Sczarni

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I'd also like to see a Cleric that gets three, four, or even all five of her deity's domains, by trading out the entire rest of her spell list. Yes, that even includes the cure and inflict spells. Can't even activate wands of them. She can trade away Channel Energy too, if that's necessary to make it balanced.


^Since this would make the number of spells known quite small, you'd probably want to make this a non-Oracle spontaneous divine caster.

Sure is a relief to be posting on a real computer again instead of a phone . . . .

Paizo Employee

revaar wrote:
I'll add another vote to alchemists that trade away either mutagens or bombs. I'd love to play an alchemist, but I have issues coming up with a concept that encompasses both.

I brought this up before and someone mentioned that mutagens are a discovery (for archetypes that trade them out). So it seems pretty reasonable to replace mutagen with a first level discovery and go from there.

It's certainly how alchemists work in my games now.

Obviously not very helpful for PFS, but thought I'd mention it if you're in a home game.

Cheers!
Landon


The old 3.X Divine Bard, maybe call it a Hymn Singer or something


More bards without music/performance.

Weather my friend or I are DMing, there are no bards who sing/dance/recite speeches. We think it looks silly to be playing a lute as an ogre beats your friends heads in. With us, you use an archaeologist or you don't use a bard.


Petty Alchemy wrote:
Marcus Robert Hosler wrote:

Fighter with full casting

Rogue with full BAB
Monk with wildshape
Wizard with mount
Paladin with grit
Ranger with a bloodline
Druid with cavalier order
Druid with guns
Cleric with paladin code
Rogue with rage powers
Barbarian with ritual summoning

Mainly because seeing the devs make all that work would amuse me.

Archetypes don't change BAB or grant casting, though the other stuff you mentioned is fair game.

Paladin with Grit: Holy Gun
Monk with Wildshape: Tranquil Guardian can take cat forms (which are the best forms so it's fine).

At least for casting, you have archetypes that remove it so, why couldn't you add it?

If we look at 3.5's ACFs, Sorcerors were able to get 3/4 BAB up from their normal 1/2.


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Landon Winkler wrote:
revaar wrote:
I'll add another vote to alchemists that trade away either mutagens or bombs. I'd love to play an alchemist, but I have issues coming up with a concept that encompasses both.

I brought this up before and someone mentioned that mutagens are a discovery (for archetypes that trade them out). So it seems pretty reasonable to replace mutagen with a first level discovery and go from there.

It's certainly how alchemists work in my games now.

Obviously not very helpful for PFS, but thought I'd mention it if you're in a home game.

Cheers!
Landon

Actually, sounds like the Investigator would be right up your alley. Alchemical extracts with no mutagens or bombs to go along with them. Just logic and the ability to know the enemy better than they know themselves.

Sczarni

UnArcaneElection wrote:

^Since this would make the number of spells known quite small, you'd probably want to make this a non-Oracle spontaneous divine caster.

Sure is a relief to be posting on a real computer again instead of a phone . . . .

Maybe instead of spont-casting Cure or Inflict, they can spont-cast domain spells? I think there's a Druid archetype that already allows for that.

Which reminds me, I'd also like to see a Druid archetype that's more focused on being a spellcaster. Must choose a domain for her nature bond, and trades away Wild Shape for an additional domain every four levels. She should probably get some extra domains to choose from if that's the case. How about Darkness, Sun, Strength, and the domain of her non-neutral alignment?


Archetypes for Wizards that actually make sense and don't suck.
(If we could get permission from Fred Perry, I'd like to see a Pathfinder version of the aura mage as an archetype).


IUS based Magus (Kung-Fu Wizard!) would be awesome. Maybe 1/2 Monk damage for his fists, only Spellstrike through fists, no shields/medium/heavy armor, lots of cool stuff. A sort of "a true warrior should need no outside help to become a weapon" sort of thing.

Full BAB Wildshaper, probably Barbarian based.

A poison based Alchemist or Rogue. One that can make poison not, you know, suck.

I had more, but I can't think of them right now.


A bard archetype that switches out melee capacity for more spellcasting?

A "nature warrior" - a martial flavored with limited Druid like powers?

This might almost have to be its own sclass, but someone who can essentially creat a load out of "temporary magical items" each day, investing spell slots in the items for effects. They have a certain number of "slots" per level they can invest and some sort of limits based on level on how high their temporary enchantment level can be.

Scarab Sages

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Silent Saturn wrote:
UnArcaneElection wrote:

^Since this would make the number of spells known quite small, you'd probably want to make this a non-Oracle spontaneous divine caster.

Sure is a relief to be posting on a real computer again instead of a phone . . . .

Maybe instead of spont-casting Cure or Inflict, they can spont-cast domain spells? I think there's a Druid archetype that already allows for that.

Which reminds me, I'd also like to see a Druid archetype that's more focused on being a spellcaster. Must choose a domain for her nature bond, and trades away Wild Shape for an additional domain every four levels. She should probably get some extra domains to choose from if that's the case. How about Darkness, Sun, Strength, and the domain of her non-neutral alignment?

storm Druid does most of this. It has to take a domain, and gets access to a second domain while keeping wild shape.

Sczarni

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Here's another idea. I'm pretty sure there's already a Cavalier archetype that trades the mount for a ship or other vehicle. How about one that trades it for a siege engine? Sir Zierich and his trebuchet? I'd play that character!

Actually, this idea works just as well as a gunslinger archetype...


A druid who takes the form of monsters with wildshape instead of animals, probably giving up animal companion for the ability.


Torbyne wrote:
Isnt that always how it goes? Most of the people i game with will still joke about the ridiculous options available back in the 3.X days and i think thats where they get the 3PP stigma from...

A lot of which was a lot better balanced than 3e itself.


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I'd really love a Witch archetype that uses charisma instead of intelligence for it's class abilities, with a focus on enchantment spells. "Bewitching abilities" maybe.


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Zolanoteph wrote:

More bards without music/performance.

Weather my friend or I are DMing, there are no bards who sing/dance/recite speeches. We think it looks silly to be playing a lute as an ogre beats your friends heads in. With us, you use an archaeologist or you don't use a bard.

Really? You don't have bards that beat their shields to a percussive beat to inspire their allies to victory? You don't have bards shouting out orders on how to be more effective with sword play? You don't have bards using the sinews of their former foes as a beautiful string instrument?


Silent Saturn wrote:

Here's another idea. I'm pretty sure there's already a Cavalier archetype that trades the mount for a ship or other vehicle. How about one that trades it for a siege engine? Sir Zierich and his trebuchet? I'd play that character!

Actually, this idea works just as well as a gunslinger archetype...

Hodgepodge had that for his RPG SS Archetype entry. He didn't advance with it, but the cavalier got a skiff.


Torbyne wrote:
The same thing happened once when i wanted to play a native outsider descended from a Pyschopomp, there is aparently a great 3PP for it but its too much effort finding an approving GM.

Funny enough, check out who the author of that book is...


Silent Saturn wrote:


An Inquisitor archetype that plays up the angle of uncovering secrets and tracking down the truth. Trades away Bane and the teamwork feats for some divination abilities.

That idea does sound quite cool.


TheSideKick wrote:
A pure mundane anti caster, using anti magic energy to take the place of the Christmas tree effect at mid to high levels.

A pure mundane character that uses mystical anti-magic "energy" (BUT DON'T YOU DARE CALL THAT MAGIC "MAGIC")?


A wizard archetype that's alchemist with 9/9 level "casting" somehow, a 4/9 spell level alchemist "paladin". Spontaneous Magus (no, bard doesn't count).

"Royal Cavalier" with a Bloodline instead of a mount or order (functioning as the Bloodrager Bloodline when challenge is active).

That's about it off the top of my head.


Imbicatus wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:


revaar wrote:
A Druid that trades away wild shape.
The Feral Child Archetype does this, though it's human only.
Survivor does it as well and isn't race restricted.

A Druid archetype that doesn't trade Wild Shape for garbage would be a nice addition.

I'd love to see a Bard that could grant teamwork feats to all allies in place of Inspire Courage. Kinda like the Arbiter except better at what it does as it trades away a real performance instead of Inspire Competence.


chaoseffect wrote:
Imbicatus wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:


revaar wrote:
A Druid that trades away wild shape.
The Feral Child Archetype does this, though it's human only.
Survivor does it as well and isn't race restricted.

A Druid archetype that doesn't trade Wild Shape for garbage would be a nice addition.

I'd love to see a Bard that could grant teamwork feats to all allies in place of Inspire Courage.

How about instead of some of the OTHER performances? Why is it always inspire courage people want to replace?


RDM42 wrote:
chaoseffect wrote:
Imbicatus wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:


revaar wrote:
A Druid that trades away wild shape.
The Feral Child Archetype does this, though it's human only.
Survivor does it as well and isn't race restricted.

A Druid archetype that doesn't trade Wild Shape for garbage would be a nice addition.

I'd love to see a Bard that could grant teamwork feats to all allies in place of Inspire Courage.

How about instead of some of the OTHER performances? Why is it always inspire courage people want to replace?

There are plenty of archetypes that don't trade away Inspire Courage and those that do often don't make good trades for it. I'd be happy if there were archetypes that traded it away for something of equal value; I'd say granting all allies teamwork feats would fit that. My point was that I was suggesting a powerful ability, so have it in place of the standard powerful bard ability.


RDM42 wrote:
chaoseffect wrote:
Imbicatus wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:


revaar wrote:
A Druid that trades away wild shape.
The Feral Child Archetype does this, though it's human only.
Survivor does it as well and isn't race restricted.

A Druid archetype that doesn't trade Wild Shape for garbage would be a nice addition.

I'd love to see a Bard that could grant teamwork feats to all allies in place of Inspire Courage.

How about instead of some of the OTHER performances? Why is it always inspire courage people want to replace?

So people would actually use the performances. Your response perfectly shows why it should replace Inspire Courage if the goal is for people to use the performance. :)

In any event, sounds like one of the hinted at archetypes in the ACG blogs may be up your alley.


Both of these are better suited for NPC villains:

This may already exist (I only own a couple of the Inner Sea setting books), but a plaguebearer archetype. Possibly different ones for different classes, with a resistance to disease and a bonus to spells that spread disease.

An old-school James Bond villain style archetype, slowly dying of an injury or infliction but gaining power until the inevitable death.


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A summoner that builds a clockwork servant (construct) instead of a 'build your own' outsider.

I have plans to make one myself for home games, but it would be nice if they saved me the trouble. :P

Sczarni

How about a rogue archetype that trades away its rogue talents for a cavalier order? All the orders grant additional class skills and skill bonuses, so they'd be a good fit for the skill class. Maybe we could also give the rogue a limited form of Challenge, so they can benefit from their order's Challenge ability?

I want to say that the rogue should then get to sneak attack the target of her challenge at will, but that may be pushing it.


Scythia wrote:

A summoner that builds a clockwork servant (construct) instead of a 'build your own' outsider.

I have plans to make one myself for home games, but it would be nice if they saved me the trouble. :P

SKR was nice enough to save you the trouble.


Cheapy wrote:
RDM42 wrote:
chaoseffect wrote:
Imbicatus wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:


revaar wrote:
A Druid that trades away wild shape.
The Feral Child Archetype does this, though it's human only.
Survivor does it as well and isn't race restricted.

A Druid archetype that doesn't trade Wild Shape for garbage would be a nice addition.

I'd love to see a Bard that could grant teamwork feats to all allies in place of Inspire Courage.

How about instead of some of the OTHER performances? Why is it always inspire courage people want to replace?

So people would actually use the performances. Your response perfectly shows why it should replace Inspire Courage if the goal is for people to use the performance. :)

In any event, sounds like one of the hinted at archetypes in the ACG blogs may be up your alley.

You DON't Use inspire courage? Its the OTHER ones that see less use ...


Zolanoteph wrote:

More bards without music/performance.

Weather my friend or I are DMing, there are no bards who sing/dance/recite speeches. We think it looks silly to be playing a lute as an ogre beats your friends heads in. With us, you use an archaeologist or you don't use a bard.

You do realize that you can reflavor that as you see fit, right? You don't even need ranks in Performance to be a perfectly good bard.

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