More questions on the Class Decks


Pathfinder Adventure Card Game General Discussion


I'm feeling a little confused about the class decks. It seems like an awesome idea but I can't figure out what supposed to be going on with them.

From reading the organized play thread I gathered that the Skull & Shackles wouldn't come with classes since each player is required to bring their own class deck. But now I read that description of the Skull & Shackles box and it comes with 7 characters classes--four of which are new. Plus there is a Character Add-On Deck with four more classes. Why are the character class decks required when there are already classes 11 classes available?

Also I'm worried about redundancy. Are the class decks I'm supposed to spend another $20 contain the same cards that base set or character add-on deck have?

And isn't this inviting a ton of potential card misplacement? I mean, what if 2 people are using base set classes and 2 others brought their own class decks? How do you keep the cards from getting mixed up? (This gets even worse with the recently spoiled card that lets you take a card from somebody else's discard pile into your hand.)


Hi there,

1. - class decks are not needed for normal play with S&S, but they are needed for organized play. They are needed that you may keep your character deck intact between OP scenairos, and you may join any OP group etc... that wouldn't be possible if character decks were needing any card from the base box itself

2. - There will be some redundancy, as you have to include every card for the character deck for organized play. On the other hand, the characters will be new, and there will be class deck exclusive boons too.

3. - I think cards will be marked based on where they are coming from, similar as we seen previously. So except if 2 people uses the same type of class deck (for example there are 2 fighters or wizards) you shouldn't have a problem seperating the cards after playing.


Sir Barnick wrote:
(This gets even worse with the recently spoiled card that lets you take a card from somebody else's discard pile into your hand.)

I'm not sure, but since the card you mention is a promo I'm not sure it's supposed to be a part of OP. But I might be wrong about that. Other OP I've played haven't allowed the use of promos. That's mostly competitive tournaments and such though.


Even with base rules you may end up with cards from other player's deck, as you may give a card to a fellow player once per turn.


My bad, I forgot about that. It's a option I seldom use when I'm soloing. Then just ignore my post because it does really not matter :)


Like others have said, Skull and Shackles will still have 11 characters that come with it just like Rise of the Runelords did. You don't NEED the class decks to play Skull and Shackles the exact same way you play Rise of the Runelords. You can, if you want, take a character from the class decks or from Rise of the Runelords and use them in Skull and Shackles as if they had come with the box. There will be varying degrees of success with that since Skull and Shackles is a pirate-y world and you character might not have sea legs.

Class decks will all says the deck they came from in the upper left corner of the face of the card. If you look at an RotR card or the preview of the S&S cards, you'll see the name of the adventure path there. For the cards from the class deck you will instead see something like "Fighter Deck".

When you play in organized play. 1 person will provide the Base Set(s) (it might be the store or organizer). Everyone playing with a particular Base Set will each play a character from a different class (so no table will have 2 fighters). As you play a single scenario, you will acquire cards from the Base Set and maybe even from trading with other characters. Then at the end of the scenario when you rebuild your deck you will say:

Hypothetical you wrote:
My fighter has 3 Weapon cards that say deck 2 in the upper right corner. 1 of them is from my class deck, 1 of them is from the store's base set, and 1 of them is from Joe's Ranger class deck. That means I get to have 3 weapon cards from deck 2 available to me when I rebuild my deck. I'll keep the one that came from Fighter deck. And the other two, I'll pick the 2 deck 2 weapons from my Fighter deck box's boons. And I'll give this weapon back to Joe, since it is from his Ranger deck and clearly indicates that. And I'll put this weapon back in the Base Set box since it is from the Base Set and clearly indicates that.

And everyone else whom you may have given a card to during the scenario will hand you back all the cards that say "Fighter Deck" on them because they clearly belong to you.

So, in the end, they are easy to sort back out and give back to the people who own them. In essence, everyone playing owns a part of the game. And at the end, they can clearly separate everything back out to what they own and will take home only what they own.


Thanks for the responses.

Zoltán Mészáros wrote:


class decks are not needed for normal play with S&S, but they are needed for organized play. They are needed that you may keep your character deck intact between OP scenairos, and you may join any OP group etc... that wouldn't be possible if character decks were needing any card from the base box itself

Well, we do this now with the base set so it's certainly possible. I have one RotRL box set and all the add-ons but I currently play with 4 different groups. All the players write down cards on the character sheets downloaded from Paizo and construct our decks from those before we run a scenario.

Its a huge pain but currently the only way to do it. It looks like the class decks will alleviate some this agony but not all of it. (Most of the pain comes from having to add and subtract adventure path cards--basics out of high level groups, high adventure path cards for others, etc.).

Zoltán Mészáros wrote:
... So except if 2 people uses the same type of class deck (for example there are 2 fighters or wizards) you shouldn't have a problem seperating the cards after playing.

So this brings up an interesting problem or two.

In RotRL base set you can't have two people playing the same class. But with class deck's you certainly can. Some of the scenarios *really* need a wide range of classes or have almost no chance of winning. (Hard to close locations by banishing a blessing when you're playing Ezren, for example).

This is cool, IMO. The game is generally too easy (in my most advanced group we've had to redo 2 scenarios and only had 1 character die). Adding an extra challenge will be interesting.

However...

Hawkmoon269 wrote:
When you play in organized play. 1 person will provide the Base Set(s) (it might be the store or organizer). Everyone playing with a particular Base Set will each play a character from a different class (so no table will have 2 fighters).

This seems to be a problem.

I'm single, over 40, and have a great job. This leaves me with plenty of disposable income I can spend on games. However, most of the people I game with are not so lucky (or unlucky, depending on your point of view).

If two people show up to play at an organized event with their one and only Fighter class deck are you really going to tell them they can't play unless one of them spends another $20?

Maybe you're just referring to the big events and not the small store organized things. If so, I guess that makes sense.


Sir Barnick wrote:
Hawkmoon269 wrote:
When you play in organized play. 1 person will provide the Base Set(s) (it might be the store or organizer). Everyone playing with a particular Base Set will each play a character from a different class (so no table will have 2 fighters).

This seems to be a problem.

I'm single, over 40, and have a great job. This leaves me with plenty of disposable income I can spend on games. However, most of the people I game with are not so lucky (or unlucky, depending on your point of view).

If two people show up to play at an organized event with their one and only Fighter class deck are you really going to tell them they can't play unless one of them spends another $20?

Maybe you're just referring to the big events and not the small store organized things. If so, I guess that makes sense.

The preference is going to be that you "muster" tables. Lets say you have 6 people show up, 2 of whom want to play the Fighter (maybe it is the only one they own or they just don't want to change). Break in to 2 groups of 3 with the fighters at separate tables. You'll need 2 base sets of course. Of course, if the same 6 are showing up regularly and are the only ones, it might make more sense for one of the two to make a switch.

If you literally only have 2 people show up and neither you nor the other guy wants to be someone other than the fighter, then you'll need to keep track. You don't get things out of your class deck box during the scenario, so as long as you new the exact cards you started the scenario with, you can just pick them up again at the end. Or if you both sleeve your cards with different sleeves.

I don't think Organized Play is really envisioning you going to a local store and playing with the same 1 guy every week. I'm not saying that won't work, I'm just saying that isn't primarily what is in mind with it. It isn't necessarily trying to be only for dozens of people, but I'd guess that they are thinking of you playing regularly, but with different people each time.

And also, cards that started in one characters deck ending up in another characters deck seemed rare during RotR, at least for me. I might give a card I acquired to another character (i.e. Ezren picks up a Longsword + 2 with Swipe), but I don' know that I've ever given a card that was in my deck at the beginning of the scenario to another character during the scenario. And since all cards acquired during the scenario in OP will be from the S&S box, I'm not even really sure it will be as big of a problem as what we are trying to solve.


Sir Barnick wrote:

Thanks for the responses.

Zoltán Mészáros wrote:


class decks are not needed for normal play with S&S, but they are needed for organized play. They are needed that you may keep your character deck intact between OP scenairos, and you may join any OP group etc... that wouldn't be possible if character decks were needing any card from the base box itself

Well, we do this now with the base set so it's certainly possible. I have one RotRL box set and all the add-ons but I currently play with 4 different groups. All the players write down cards on the character sheets downloaded from Paizo and construct our decks from those before we run a scenario.

Its a huge pain but currently the only way to do it. It looks like the class decks will alleviate some this agony but not all of it. (Most of the pain comes from having to add and subtract adventure path cards--basics out of high level groups, high adventure path cards for others, etc.).

Zoltán Mészáros wrote:
... So except if 2 people uses the same type of class deck (for example there are 2 fighters or wizards) you shouldn't have a problem seperating the cards after playing.

So this brings up an interesting problem or two.

In RotRL base set you can't have two people playing the same class. But with class deck's you certainly can. Some of the scenarios *really* need a wide range of classes or have almost no chance of winning. (Hard to close locations by banishing a blessing when you're playing Ezren, for example).

This is cool, IMO. The game is generally too easy (in my most advanced group we've had to redo 2 scenarios and only had 1 character die). Adding an extra challenge will be interesting.

However...

Hawkmoon269 wrote:
When you play in organized play. 1 person will provide the Base Set(s) (it might be the store or organizer). Everyone playing with a particular Base Set will each play a character from a different class (so no table will have 2 fighters).

This seems to be a problem.

I'm...

The solution seems easy to me guys.... card sleeves. As long as every player sleeves their cards differently, then there is no issue in the resort, right? Can even have multiple character of the same class.


I think if I were taking my class deck to a public organized play, I would want to sleeve them. Of course, if you do loan a weapon, item, etc to someone else, then it ends up in their deck or discard pile during play, it does make it very evident which card it is. Probably a minor problem when we are talking about player decks, but something to consider.

Grand Lodge

I may end up using penny sleeves inside my deck sleeves and mark the penny sleeves since I have clear Ultra-Pro and will probably also get the UP PACG sleeves at GenCon. I've been using the penny sleeves (Ultra-Pro Pro-Fit) on my character and role cards and checking off boxes that way.

I'm going to bring extras with me and see how the organized play goes with the class decks.


Sir Barnick wrote:

Thanks for the responses.

Zoltán Mészáros wrote:


class decks are not needed for normal play with S&S, but they are needed for organized play. They are needed that you may keep your character deck intact between OP scenairos, and you may join any OP group etc... that wouldn't be possible if character decks were needing any card from the base box itself

Well, we do this now with the base set so it's certainly possible. I have one RotRL box set and all the add-ons but I currently play with 4 different groups. All the players write down cards on the character sheets downloaded from Paizo and construct our decks from those before we run a scenario.

Its a huge pain but currently the only way to do it. It looks like the class decks will alleviate some this agony but not all of it. (Most of the pain comes from having to add and subtract adventure path cards--basics out of high level groups, high adventure path cards for others, etc.).

Well, nobody prevents you from doing the exaclty same wit S&S. You may personaly own more class decks than you use, and let others use them if your income makes that possible.

BTW, there are more than enough variety that I not recommend 2 players laying the same class anyway. Bit is that happens the may iput a small note into the card sleeve indicating thowner of the card.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

To be clear, you *can* have two people playing the same class—or even the same exact character—in the PFS Adventure Card Guild, but we recommend that you avoid it when possible.

Pathfinder Adventure Card Game Designer

Vic Wertz wrote:
To be clear, you *can* have two people playing the same class—or even the same exact character—in the PFS Adventure Card Guild, but we recommend that you avoid it when possible.

My advice has been, "Bring a notebook." If Valeros passes Valeros a card, you're going to want to keep good records.

Sczarni

I see sleeves, especially those with a design on the back, will be very useful for helping to keep track of your cards.

As an organizer I will be definitely be following Vic's advice and try to muster the tables so as to have no multiples. I think I will also follow Mikes advice and have some paper available to help track at each table. Thank you both for the advice.

I think I might also print out a bunch of the tracker sheets when they are up, so I can hand them out to any players who do not have them.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

The problem with sleeves is this: If I have sleeves and you don't (or you have different sleeves), and I give you a card, it's fine as long as it's in your hand, but if you end up discarding it and then having to manipulate a random card from your discard pile, you'll need to unsleeve/resleeve it to match yours. Or if you end up recharging it, that's even worse, as it will be very obvious exactly where it is in your deck.


Vic Wertz wrote:
The problem with sleeves is this: If I have sleeves and you don't (or you have different sleeves), and I give you a card, it's fine as long as it's in your hand, but if you end up discarding it and then having to manipulate a random card from your discard pile, you'll need to unsleeve/resleeve it to match yours. Or if you end up recharging it, that's even worse, as it will be very obvious exactly where it is in your deck.

Sleeves certainly present a problem, but asking people not to sleeve their own cards in OP is probably not going to work. Having them move other people's cards into their own sleeves is also troublesome and not likely to be popular, not to mention it the potential for dispute over ownership. Mike's notebook idea can alleviate this somewhat, but its still a bit of a problem.

I'm hoping its a rare enough occurrence that knowing where one particular "borrowed" card is would not be much of an advantage. But if this is an issue, and if I were running organized play, I might buy an extra deck and come up with a proxy system of some kind.

Its certainly an interesting problem. I wonder if any other OP card games have run into this? It seems like it would not be an issue with MtG, because I don't think your cards can actually wind up in an opponent's deck. Of course, given the kabillions of possible interactions with their huge volume of cards, maybe it is possible.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

We're not telling you not to sleeve—I'm just pointing out that there are times when that will create problems that you will have to work around. For example, in the situation I described above, the person who has your card will need to unsleeve/resleeve it at the point it becomes a problem, and you'll need to remember that they did that.

Also, please remember that we're talking about edge cases here. When there is only one character of a given class at each table, tracking cards is easy: all of the cards that say "Skull & Shackles" at the top belong in the box, all of the cards that say "Fighter Class Deck" at the top belong to the person with the Fighter Class Deck, and so on. In that situation, nobody needs to keep track of anything during play. The only time it becomes an issue is if you have more than one person playing the same class, and even then only when one of those people gives cards to another player.


Hmm, I think we can defeat the random problem by laying the cards out and rolling a die to determine the card.

And once again, a problem is solved with dice!

Sovereign Court

Oath -- And if you're shuffling a discard into a deck? You're definitely unsleeving that.


On a more general note, can we expect a full preview article for the class decks - maybe with a spoiler or two?

Scarab Sages

Regarding sleeving, I had sleeved my RoTR in nice Ultra pro dark blue sleeves. They hold up well but it will make it extremely obvious if a player with any other color sleeve or no sleeves, acquires a boon. For Skull and Shackles I am going clear penny sleeves for this reason. I am hoping its a bit less obvious in a deck of sleeved cards. I also really like the idea of using dice to randomize picking a card. Finally, as the organizer, since penny sleeves are cheap, I am going to supply loaner sleeves to anyone playing. I will let you all know how well or poorly my plans work. ;)


Vic Wertz wrote:
The problem with sleeves is this: If I have sleeves and you don't (or you have different sleeves), and I give you a card, it's fine as long as it's in your hand, but if you end up discarding it and then having to manipulate a random card from your discard pile, you'll need to unsleeve/resleeve it to match yours. Or if you end up recharging it, that's even worse, as it will be very obvious exactly where it is in your deck.

Bring extra sleeves. When a situation like above happens. Sleeve the card in one of your sleeves with a a piece of paper with the owning player's name on it.

At the end of the adventure give his card back.


Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Just some ideas:

This issue of identifying card sources could be tackled if each class deck gets an unique number which is printed somewhere on the card. Like a vintage number of a sort ^_^ If I have swashbuckler deck number 574935 and another player has swashbuckler deck number 841137, we'd only have to check our numbers to find our cards.

However, that would require some way to add those numbers to the cards in an affordable manner, so no breaking the scalability of the print. So I'm not sure if this is feasible, only that it may be usable.

An alternative could be if the OP organizer not only provides the base box, but also class decks, with each card marked as an OP card. Then, if I need to give my card to another player, I'll just put my card in my own box, give the player a card from the decks provided by the OP. After the game, every player has only OP cards and own cards. Those are easily filtered.

Silver Crusade RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

Yerdiss wrote:

Just some ideas:

This issue of identifying card sources could be tackled if each class deck gets an unique number which is printed somewhere on the card. Like a vintage number of a sort ^_^ If I have swashbuckler deck number 574935 and another player has swashbuckler deck number 841137, we'd only have to check our numbers to find our cards.

However, that would require some way to add those numbers to the cards in an affordable manner, so no breaking the scalability of the print. So I'm not sure if this is feasible, only that it may be usable.

An alternative could be if the OP organizer not only provides the base box, but also class decks, with each card marked as an OP card. Then, if I need to give my card to another player, I'll just put my card in my own box, give the player a card from the decks provided by the OP. After the game, every player has only OP cards and own cards. Those are easily filtered.

I can guarantee you that adding any printing to the cards is way past being an option, since the cards are supposed to be available next month. I'm sure they've been sent to the printers long ago, by now.

Grand Lodge

cartmanbeck wrote:
Yerdiss wrote:

Just some ideas:

This issue of identifying card sources could be tackled if each class deck gets an unique number which is printed somewhere on the card. Like a vintage number of a sort ^_^ If I have swashbuckler deck number 574935 and another player has swashbuckler deck number 841137, we'd only have to check our numbers to find our cards.

However, that would require some way to add those numbers to the cards in an affordable manner, so no breaking the scalability of the print. So I'm not sure if this is feasible, only that it may be usable.

An alternative could be if the OP organizer not only provides the base box, but also class decks, with each card marked as an OP card. Then, if I need to give my card to another player, I'll just put my card in my own box, give the player a card from the decks provided by the OP. After the game, every player has only OP cards and own cards. Those are easily filtered.

I can guarantee you that adding any printing to the cards is way past being an option, since the cards are supposed to be available next month. I'm sure they've been sent to the printers long ago, by now.

I'm also sure that adding a unique number to each card to match in a deck would not be an affordable idea. Manufacturing and sorting nightmare.

As for your alternative, let's say the store I play at has a base set and the add-on and the adventure decks. I'm pretty sure I've convinced them for durability sake we sleeve the cards. And we'll probably need to provide a set of class decks for those who haven't purchased yet. Sleeve those as well. Mark the sleeves so we know they're they store copies. I guess that can work except when there are duplicate classes.

But if you're saying that we mark the cards themselves, then some people have issues with that. (Me, being one.) The other reason I sleeve my cards is so I can put the errata in the card sleeve rather than write on the card.

And I need to know more about the exact set-up of organized play scenarios and class decks to get a better idea if I'll need to bring extra sleeves for those with class decks without. But if we use the one we own, it would already be sleeved.

Silver Crusade RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

Theryon Stormrune wrote:
cartmanbeck wrote:
Yerdiss wrote:

Just some ideas:

This issue of identifying card sources could be tackled if each class deck gets an unique number which is printed somewhere on the card. Like a vintage number of a sort ^_^ If I have swashbuckler deck number 574935 and another player has swashbuckler deck number 841137, we'd only have to check our numbers to find our cards.

However, that would require some way to add those numbers to the cards in an affordable manner, so no breaking the scalability of the print. So I'm not sure if this is feasible, only that it may be usable.

An alternative could be if the OP organizer not only provides the base box, but also class decks, with each card marked as an OP card. Then, if I need to give my card to another player, I'll just put my card in my own box, give the player a card from the decks provided by the OP. After the game, every player has only OP cards and own cards. Those are easily filtered.

I can guarantee you that adding any printing to the cards is way past being an option, since the cards are supposed to be available next month. I'm sure they've been sent to the printers long ago, by now.
...As for your alternative, let's say the store I play at has a base set and the add-on and the adventure decks. I'm pretty sure I've convinced them for durability sake we sleeve the cards. And we'll probably need to provide a set of class decks for those who haven't purchased yet. Sleeve those as well. Mark the sleeves so we know they're they store copies. I guess that can work except when there are duplicate classes...

You're not supposed to allow this. If they're playing in organized play, they MUST own a Class Deck. That's the rule.

Grand Lodge

cartmanbeck wrote:
You're not supposed to allow this. If they're playing in organized play, they MUST own a Class Deck. That's the rule.

I understand that they should purchase first. But for those that haven't played the game yet, how do you know what you want to play? My feeling is that we'd prefer they purchase a class deck first. It would be better if they did but definitely they will have to if they plan on continuing play.

If I hadn't played the game at all and am interested and I purchased the bard deck without ever looking at the cards (so no knowledge of skill, powers, etc.) and hated the character, then I'm out $20 and probably not going to play again. But if I sit down with no prior knowledge, I get to look at the classes, get a feel for the theme of the character, play one that I think I'd like ... then we'd get a purchase and an ongoing player.

I just have an issue with having to tell someone to purchase a class deck without ever seeing the cards (possibly).

Grand Lodge PFO Community Manager

Im going to comment on the sleeve thing.

I bought a TON of clear sleeves for RotRL and every adventure pack. It took FOREVER to sleeve them all. We played a few scenarios and quickly discovered a few things..

1. You cannot shuffle very well.

2. Picking up any cards with out causing a land slide is non existent!!

3. My kids were rather annoyed because a lot of the sleeves kept coming off.

Granted there were ultra pro super thin sleeves. I just wanted to keep my cards nice and not contaminated by dirty hands... But at last I have decided to just buy all the PF Ultra Pro sleeves since they are heavier and not thin as a zip lock baggy!

Grand Lodge

Bonny Paz wrote:

Im going to comment on the sleeve thing.

I bought a TON of clear sleeves for RotRL and every adventure pack. It took FOREVER to sleeve them all. We played a few scenarios and quickly discovered a few things..

1. You cannot shuffle very well.

2. Picking up any cards with out causing a land slide is non existent!!

3. My kids were rather annoyed because a lot of the sleeves kept coming off.

Granted there were ultra pro super thin sleeves. I just wanted to keep my cards nice and not contaminated by dirty hands... But at last I have decided to just buy all the PF Ultra Pro sleeves since they are heavier and not thin as a zip lock baggy!

Going off of what you said, you're talking about the Ultra-Pro Pro-Fit sleeves that can fit within the deck protector sleeves. Yes, they are slippery ... no doubt!. And I do find them more difficult to shuffle than the deck protector sleeves. Also, once you get above 25 cards, a small breeze will slide cards off the deck.

I went with the clear Ultra-Pro Deck Protectors. They are heavier. But I don't have problems shuffling them. Stacks don't shift a lot, they tend not to be as slippery as the Pro-Fit. I'm very happy with them.

My only concern is whether the new PACG-backed Ultra-Pro sleeves are the same exact height and width. I found that some of my older, colored UP Deck Protector sleeves were not.

btw, I do use the Pro-Fit sleeves inside my deck protectors for the character cards so I can check off the boxes or so that I can mark my cards with my initials.


cartmanbeck wrote:
Theryon Stormrune wrote:


...As for your alternative, let's say the store I play at has a base set and the add-on and the adventure decks. I'm pretty sure I've convinced them for durability sake we sleeve the cards. And we'll probably need to provide a set of class decks for those who haven't purchased yet. Sleeve those as well. Mark the sleeves so we know they're they store copies. I guess that can work except when there are duplicate classes...

You're not supposed to allow this. If they're playing in organized play, they MUST own a Class Deck. That's the rule.

I don't see a rule like this. If I want to loan a friend one of my class decks, they can play. Its no different if the store or the OP organizer loans them a deck. The only "rule" I have seen so far is that you need to HAVE a class deck (whether you own it or borrowed it) and you need a Pathfinder Society number.

Pathfinder Blog April 18, 2014 wrote:

Season 0 will feature themes and stories inspired by the Skull & Shackles Base Set. To play, each participant will need to have a Class Deck and a Pathfinder Society number, and each table will need a copy of the Skull & Shackles Base Set plus all of the Skull & Shackles adventure decks released to that point. Play will be similar to the game you've already come to love, but when the time comes to improve your character deck, you'll do it with cards from your Class Deck. After the game, participants can report the results online to keep track of what you've played and how you've done.

Feel free to point me to the correct information if I am missing it, but I will not be policing people to see if they actually own their deck, and I would applaud stores that have an extra set of decks to get people into the game.

Silver Crusade RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

I suppose you're right, but I was under the impression is that the intent is that you can't continue to play unless you're willing to actually buy the deck. Perhaps you can allow someone to sit down the first time and play with you, sure, but I think the idea is that if they like playing OP, they buy a class deck themselves.

Pathfinder ACG Designer

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cartmanbeck wrote:
I suppose you're right, but I was under the impression is that the intent is that you can't continue to play unless you're willing to actually buy the deck. Perhaps you can allow someone to sit down the first time and play with you, sure, but I think the idea is that if they like playing OP, they buy a class deck themselves.

Everyone sitting at the table playing must have in their possession a legally acquired, as in, not acquired by breaking local/federal/state laws, Class Deck to play at that table. We have no interest in controlling or even knowing how you got that Class Deck.

I have personally seen many people at the same table sharing rulebooks and playing RPGs. You cannot do that with a card game. Each player has to have the physical Class Deck at the physical table in the physical world we all live in.

I am amused and confused by how much discussion this rule has generated.

Grand Lodge

Tanis O'Connor wrote:
cartmanbeck wrote:
I suppose you're right, but I was under the impression is that the intent is that you can't continue to play unless you're willing to actually buy the deck. Perhaps you can allow someone to sit down the first time and play with you, sure, but I think the idea is that if they like playing OP, they buy a class deck themselves.

Everyone sitting at the table playing must have in their possession a legally acquired, as in, not acquired by breaking local/federal/state laws, Class Deck to play at that table. We have no interest in controlling or even knowing how you got that Class Deck.

I have personally seen many people at the same table sharing rulebooks and playing RPGs. You cannot do that with a card game. Each player has to have the physical Class Deck at the physical table in the physical world we all live in.

I am amused and confused by how much discussion this rule has generated.

Tanis, I think that's the point ... that each person needs a Class Deck to play a character in the the game. It was just the ownership that was in question. And definitely need to push continuing players to pick up a class deck if they want to keep playing.


cartmanbeck wrote:
I suppose you're right, but I was under the impression is that the intent is that you can't continue to play unless you're willing to actually buy the deck. Perhaps you can allow someone to sit down the first time and play with you, sure, but I think the idea is that if they like playing OP, they buy a class deck themselves.

I do agree that players who decide to continue with OP should be encouraged to purchase a deck rather than continuing to use any store/ organizer copy. Not only does it help the store with sales, it also frees up the loaned deck for use by someone else trying out the game.

Pathfinder ACG Designer

Greyhawke115 wrote:
I do agree that players who decide to continue with OP should be encouraged to purchase a deck rather than continuing to use any store/ organizer copy. Not only does it help the store with sales, it also frees up the loaned deck for use by someone else trying out the game.

Oh, indeed. Give us all your monies!

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

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Theryon Stormrune wrote:
cartmanbeck wrote:
You're not supposed to allow this. If they're playing in organized play, they MUST own a Class Deck. That's the rule.

I understand that they should purchase first. But for those that haven't played the game yet, how do you know what you want to play? My feeling is that we'd prefer they purchase a class deck first. It would be better if they did but definitely they will have to if they plan on continuing play.

If I hadn't played the game at all and am interested and I purchased the bard deck without ever looking at the cards (so no knowledge of skill, powers, etc.) and hated the character, then I'm out $20 and probably not going to play again. But if I sit down with no prior knowledge, I get to look at the classes, get a feel for the theme of the character, play one that I think I'd like ... then we'd get a purchase and an ongoing player.

I just have an issue with having to tell someone to purchase a class deck without ever seeing the cards (possibly).

If you have a person who has not played the game, we would prefer you introduce them to the game by taking them through the first scenario in the Skull & Shackles Base Set, using characters built from that box. That scenario is specifically designed for beginners; the OP scenarios are not.

Grand Lodge

Vic Wertz wrote:
If you have a person who has not played the game, we would prefer you introduce them to the game by taking them through the first scenario in the Skull & Shackles Base Set, using characters built from that box. That scenario is specifically designed for beginners; the OP scenarios are not.

Actually, that is good to know up front. I wasn't going to make that assumption.


Vic Wertz wrote:
If you have a person who has not played the game, we would prefer you introduce them to the game by taking them through the first scenario in the Skull & Shackles Base Set, using characters built from that box. That scenario is specifically designed for beginners; the OP scenarios are not.

I figured that would be most preferable, but depending on how much interest is generated compared to how much time I'll have to run games, I don't know if it will be practical. Not to mention it could get boring for a number of people. If there is even one new person wanting to try the game out each week, the more experienced players will have to either sit and wait for the intro/tutorial game to play out, or play the same scenario every week before they get to try out the new OP content and actually advance their character.

On the other hand, if the first month or so worth of OP scenarios end up being roughly suitable for a starting character, a new player can jump right into the new scenario to start out and the experienced players could also get what they want without delay. After we move past the scenarios that can be done at "level 1" then I could at least mix around what the intro OP scenario would be each week so that myself and other experienced players don't get too bored and can use it as an opportunity to try other characters in our character decks.

Of course, doing this requires some assumptions about how the OP scenarios will work (i.e. having multiple scenarios that are "level 1" appropriate and being able to do them in any order), but this is how I'd probably like to run things.


pluvia33 wrote:
I figured that would be most preferable, but depending on how much interest is generated compared to how much time I'll have to run games, I don't know if it will be practical. Not to mention it could get boring for a number of people. If there is even one new person wanting to try the game out each week, the more experienced players will have to either sit and wait for the intro/tutorial game to play out, or play the same scenario every week before they get to try out the new OP content and actually advance their character.

Can't you organize a "beginners day" where you are very precise that there will be running through the first adventure first and then have a time stamp for the OP to start after that? That way people who want's to learn it, or want's to help learning it away can come a little bit earlier. And those who just want to get straight into the OP can just come when the OP starts.

But then again your other solution should probably also work. Depending on how this OP works :)


Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
cartmanbeck wrote:
Yerdiss wrote:
This issue of identifying card sources could be tackled if each class deck gets an unique number which is printed somewhere on the card.
I can guarantee you that adding any printing to the cards is way past being an option, since the cards are supposed to be available next month. I'm sure they've been sent to the printers long ago, by now.

As I mentioned, not talking feasibility here, just an idea. Paizo will probably be doing more prints in the future, so while it's probably (certainly) too late to do something like this now, that doesn't mean that it can't be useful in future.

Theryon Stormrune wrote:
Yerdiss wrote:
An alternative could be if the OP organizer not only provides the base box, but also class decks, with each card marked as an OP card. Then, if I need to give my card to another player, I'll just put my card in my own box, give the player a card from the decks provided by the OP. After the game, every player has only OP cards and own cards. Those are easily filtered.
But if you're saying that we mark the cards themselves, then some people have issues with that. (Me, being one.) The other reason I sleeve my cards is so I can put the errata in the card sleeve rather than write on the card.

I'm not sure we are talking about the same thing here. There's "your cards" and "OP cards" (or "store cards"). The idea is that you do not need to mark your own cards at all, provided the OP or the store that organizes the games, is willing to provide some extra decks. Those dedicated "OP" decks can be marked; it can be considered a cost of organizing the game. And those marked store-owned cards can then be used as placeholder for cards that need to be given to other players, so that your own unmarked cards never leave from your possession.

Maybe an example to clarify.

Say Sarah is a shop owner who wants to set up some Organized Play (OP). She takes a base-set (and all add-ons and adventures she wants) so that people have something to play with. Players only bring their own class decks. Say you and I both play at that game and we both play with a cleric deck. Then, if Sarah also brings a cleric deck, marks her cards with a nice and small "Sarah's store" mark somewhere, we're all set.

Now, if for some reason, you give me one of your cards, instead of giving me the card from your deck, Sarah gives me a similar card from her deck. You put your card away. Still one card in game, now in my hand, no longer in yours. That card in play is marked "Sarah's store", so after the game, I can identify it and give it back to Sarah. Your own card is still in your box, so no confusion there: no need to do anything with your cards.

Sure, Sarah has some marked cards, totally unfit for selling or collecting, but that's the price she's willing to pay to ensure there's no confusion between players.


Jorsalheim wrote:
pluvia33 wrote:
I figured that would be most preferable, but depending on how much interest is generated compared to how much time I'll have to run games, I don't know if it will be practical. Not to mention it could get boring for a number of people. If there is even one new person wanting to try the game out each week, the more experienced players will have to either sit and wait for the intro/tutorial game to play out, or play the same scenario every week before they get to try out the new OP content and actually advance their character.
Can't you organize a "beginners day" where you are very precise that there will be running through the first adventure first and then have a time stamp for the OP to start after that? That way people who want's to learn it, or want's to help learning it away can come a little bit earlier. And those who just want to get straight into the OP can just come when the OP starts.

Yeah, it mostly depends on the amount of time I'll be able to dedicate to running OP and how much interest we're able to generate in my area. I live in kind of a weird small-yet-big town due to being a few miles away from an Air Force base. With fluctuating customer frequency, my local game store has settled on only being open Friday through Sunday because it wasn't getting enough business during the week.

With that, I'll probably only be going there to run one day a week since the weekend tends to be the only time my wife and I get to really spend time together with us both working and going to school. In addition to that, we'll also want to run the non-OP S&S scenarios before the OP sessions. Although, if OP stuff does catch on here, we might end up just doing the non-OP stuff at home during the week. The initial 10 non-OP scenarios are going to be a lot to get through when the game comes out. If the OP stuff requires Adventure 1 to be mixed in already, I'd hate to have to mix and un-mix between having and not having those cards in the box.

Again, we'll just have to see how everything turns out. Just trying to think of possible situations before they happen so I might have an idea of what I'll do in response. I'll be able to plan better after the OP guide comes out and make adjustments once everything gets started.


pluvia33 wrote:
If the OP stuff requires Adventure 1 to be mixed in already, I'd hate to have to mix and un-mix between having and not having those cards in the box.

As it's only Adventure 1, you could just exchange Adventure 1 cards you're encountering when playing the Base Adventure with another one from the box. It's a little fiddly maybe, but with only one AP in the box it's not as fiddly as I have it with all AP's in the box, and playing on AP3 with my current set of heroes :)


I forgot about the character decks when sorting between OP/Home and rebuilding them again. That's probably more of a hassle.

Grand Lodge

Yerdiss wrote:
Say Sarah is a shop owner who wants to set up some Organized Play (OP). She takes a base-set (and all add-ons and adventures she wants) so that...

Actually, yes, that's exactly what I was talking about. :-) That the store (or organizer) would somehow mark their cards so that they don't get mixed up with the class deck cards. In the end, the S&S cards will have a different title up top as opposed to the class decks that have the class title on theirs.

But it doesn't hurt to mark (and I mean on a sleeve) your cards in your (class) decks anyway.

Grand Lodge

Jorsalheim, that's why I'm waiting (anxiously) for more concrete organizational guidelines for OP. When I see them in PDF format, then I'll know how much set-up time will be needed.

As for doing beginner sessions, that was my next thought ... even going so far as to seeing if how difficult it would be to sub the class deck classes (using the base iconics) into the S&S first adventure. So that the newbies get a flavor of the actual classes played in OP rather than the ones you can't play.

Mike/Vic/Tanis, is it recommended for people wanting to get into OP but haven't played the game yet to sub out the characters in the base and add-on and put in the classes from the class decks (using the recognizable iconics characters) and run the base adventure/scenario for training?

Also, a lot of us found that the base adventure/scenarios were maybe a bit more difficult than the Adv deck 1 scenarios. How does the base ones compare for S&S?

The Exchange

Now that we are closer to this starting, I had some thoughts on a few of the questions people brought up in this thread.

I plan to use colored map dot stickers on my cards before I throw them in sleeves to easily distinguish which ones are mine.

As for sleeving and unsleeving, I personally would rather deal with that on what will likely be a very rare basis over the wear and tear on my cards from playing them unsleeved.

I am going to recommend to our game group that anyone who wants to sleeve should bring a half dozen extra sleeves so that they can resleeve in their own color/style for temporary trades. People who are concerned for the safety of their cards should just ask the other player to hand them their sleeve so that they can be the one to do the work, ensures someone doesn't damage them.

Finally people will need to be OK with loaning out a card and having it temporarily unsleeved if the recipient doesn't sleeve their cards. If they are not then they need to not share cards.

As for beginners and OP, I plan to run 2 or 3 intro games each game day before OP begins to get people excited about playing, but I will be using the base set, hopefully in a stripped down demo variant to speed things along. Working on getting that going in another thread if anyone wants to follow along.

Sovereign Court

I'm definitely sleeving my class decks with the official Pathfinder sleeves, but probably won't do the main game. I'm running the OP at my local shop and don't want to cause any hassle for those who don't want to unsleeve everything they pick up.

I've considered buying two copies of everything though, so I have a main set I sleeve for my group, and an unsleeved set for OP


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I am under the plan that we will have enough interest in our OP play at the local store to have two tables. The store will provide a set that is not sleeved and if needed I will provide my personal set for group use that is sleeved with the Paizo PACG sleeves. That will allow one table to have sleeves and one table to not have sleeves to hopefully let the people that are bothered by either option to have a table of refuge for their style of play.

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