Paizo Top Nav Branding
  • Hello, Guest! |
  • Sign In |
  • My Account |
  • Shopping Cart |
  • Help/FAQ
About Paizo Messageboards News Paizo Blog Help/FAQ
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game

Pathfinder Adventure Card Game


Pathfinder Society


Starfinder


Starfinder Society

If there was one class you'd wish Paizo to drop from PFS legality, which one would it be and why?


Pathfinder Society Roleplaying Guild

1 to 50 of 453 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | next > last >>
Silver Crusade ****

I'm curious to see what various GM's who have different amounts of time of experience. I'm guessing newer GM's might have different opinions than more veteran ones.

**

4 people marked this as a favorite.

Gunslinger, I suppose, if I was going to get rid of any of the base classes. I'm not actively hostile to guns in D&D, just not a huge fan of it, and I think the touch attack mechanics are somewhat flawed. I'd prefer to see guns ignore some portion of armor, but not necessarily all of it if the armor bonus is particularly high.

Silver Crusade ***

1 person marked this as a favorite.

How long do you think it'll take for this to turn into a paladin hate thread? If we can't go at least 25 posts (real ones, not posts just to get the post count up because I said that) without an anti-paladin rant, then I'll make a new aasimar paladin, just to cheese those people off. :P

Silver Crusade ***** Venture-Captain, Indiana—Bloomington aka CanisDirus

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Everyone has their own opinion, and you'll probably get twice as many opinions as there are classes, but...

For me, it's Summoner. It's pretty much the only class where the PC can turn invisible and stay within line of sight of a battle and still have a more effective/deadly creature under his/her control tearing things up. That, or the table suddenly gets 1d3+X more minis on the board, cluttering things up for the GM and the other players, and maybe even stealing other PCs' thunder from "doing things."

I'm expecting lots of people to say "Gunslinger" (my third favorite class, just so my biases are open and known), but to me...

Preemptive defense of the Gunslinger class:

They're hated on pretty much the same way Warlocks were in 3.5 - they're mostly a one-trick pony, and that trick is pretty powerful, and people generally don't like that. Although, unlike Summoners, Gunslingers have to be much closer to the fight even if they're going vs. touch AC most of the time.

A second case *for* the Gunslinger is gold. I played Siege of the Diamond City with my level 13 Gunslinger - I went through over 6,000gp of ammo (although half of that was a greater burrowing bullet on a Glabrezu that was about to full-attack-kill one of my party members) in less than 5 hours.

A third case for the 'slinger is math - people have run the numbers repeatedly, and have found that a Gunslinger vs. an Archer-Fighter do about the same damage, by the numbers, at the higher levels. Especially now that the Weapon Cord BS has been fixed, 'slingers can't get off "ludicrous speed" numbers of shots in a single round (lightspeed not too slow though).

So, yea, for me and me alone it's Summoners (and sorry in advance about the mini-rant...but my Gunslinger-player-senses are tingling that they're going to be hated on a bit in this thread :)

Lantern Lodge ***** Venture-Agent aka Jayson MF Kip

I'm pretty happy with all of the classes.

If I had to pick one, Monk, just to cut down on splash levels.

Silver Crusade ****

CanisDirus, I'm curious as to what Weapon Cord BS you're alluding to.

Silver Crusade ***** Venture-Captain, Indiana—Bloomington aka CanisDirus

Prethen wrote:
CanisDirus, I'm curious as to what Weapon Cord BS you're alluding to.

It used to be a swift action to recover a weapon from a weapon cord, as opposed to now, where it's a move-action. VOs have told dark stories around campfires of PCs with one double-barreled pistol "dangling" from each wrist, fully loaded, with two more in-hand, and somehow that gunslinger was able to fire, "drop", grab, reload, grap, and fire something close to 12 attacks in a single round.

I never "dual-gun" with my 'slingers, and even the one I designed to shoot fast, only gets his iterative attacks (+ haste sometimes) "doubled" when using both barrels (higher % for misfire, -4 to the attacks), for at most 6 shots at ~ level 12.
For hardcore mechanics people, those are approximations above - I haven't played my high level gunslinger in awhile so the exact numbers escape me while I'm at the lab

***

2 people marked this as a favorite.

I would cut the rogue just because of how poor a job they did with it.

Liberty's Edge *****

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Rogue is fine.

I'd cut the Witch.

Sczarni

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Gunslingers seem to be the most disliked here and I completely agree. I'm an old-school GM and don't really like firearms in a fantasy setting (unless I'm running a Freeport/Pirate style game, in which case the rules for guns are still broken but acceptable.
But the classes I believe should not be PFS legal are any out of the Advanced Class Guide. We have been playtesting those classes for a while now and I have to say they are all broken or way overpowered. While the concept of hybrid-style classes was a great idea, some don't work the way you might think. I know i'm gonna catch flak for this opinion but thats what my table has experienced.

Silver Crusade ***

Bear in mind that the Advanced Class Guide classes aren't final. Anything overpowered should (theoretically) be better balanced in the final version. We'll have to see how that actually goes.

Lantern Lodge ***

Magus.

Im sure its a lovely class but I find it cheesy.

Sczarni

Fromper wrote:
Bear in mind that the Advanced Class Guide classes aren't final. Anything overpowered should (theoretically) be better balanced in the final version. We'll have to see how that actually goes.

I get that they are not final. But even as playtest classes they are still legal PFS classes. This shouldn't have been the case until the official document was released. They do need a major overhaul

*****

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Legends Subscriber

Just one? Gunslinger. Most impact would be Magus.

Certainly wish none of the ACG classes would be allowed. Even our local power-gamer finds them too cheesy to play.

*****

9 people marked this as a favorite.

I'd remove multiclassing.

Grand Lodge ** RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Dancingweasel wrote:

Magus.

Im sure its a lovely class but I find it cheesy.

Just to make sure I'm understanding you correctly, what do you mean when you say "cheesy"?

Liberty's Edge *****

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Kyle Baird wrote:
I'd remove multiclassing.

This would solve almost all the problems of OP builds.

Scarab Sages *****

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Jiggy wrote:
Dancingweasel wrote:

Magus.

Im sure its a lovely class but I find it cheesy.

Just to make sure I'm understanding you correctly, what do you mean when you say "cheesy"?

He probably means that it makes everything better. Cheeseburger, cheese pizza, chili with cheese, etc.

Makes note to make ratfolk magus/bloatmage with obsession for cheese.

*****

Andrew Christian wrote:
Kyle Baird wrote:
I'd remove multiclassing.
This would solve almost all the problems of OP builds.

But it's for flavor I swear!

There's still crazy powerful builds with single classes (any summoner, twf gunslingers, most druids, etc), but it would certainly remove a lot of what some consider badwrongfuncheese.

*disclaimer* 1/2 my characters are multi-classed.

Sczarni ****

Remove all Paladins due to all the paladin hate. I hate all the paladin hate. Just kidding. :D

The Exchange ***** Venture-Lieutenant, Texas—Dallas & Ft. Worth aka Belafon

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Mystic Theurge. (Well, MT with spell-like early entry, at least.)

Honestly it's more certain items I'd like to remove than classes.

Silver Crusade ***

Sean Ennis wrote:
Jiggy wrote:
Dancingweasel wrote:

Magus.

Im sure its a lovely class but I find it cheesy.

Just to make sure I'm understanding you correctly, what do you mean when you say "cheesy"?

He probably means that it makes everything better. Cheeseburger, cheese pizza, chili with cheese, etc.

Makes note to make ratfolk magus/bloatmage with obsession for cheese.

I thought he just meant that they're not suitable for vegans, people with a dairy allergy, or Jews eating meat for dinner.

Shadow Lodge ***

Probably Summoner, but I don't hate it.

A better way to poll this would have been to create a separate post in the thread for each class in it and get people to click Favourite on their "class to remove".

Silver Crusade *****

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Cards, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild, Tales Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Legends Subscriber

I'm torn between the summoner and the gunslinger.

I suppose If I was going to pick, I'd pick the gunslinger.

Liberty's Edge *****

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Kyle Baird wrote:
Andrew Christian wrote:
Kyle Baird wrote:
I'd remove multiclassing.
This would solve almost all the problems of OP builds.

But it's for flavor I swear!

There's still crazy powerful builds with single classes (any summoner, twf gunslingers, most druids, etc), but it would certainly remove a lot of what some consider badwrongfuncheese.

*disclaimer* 1/2 my characters are multi-classed.

I have multiclassed characters as well. Many of the Prestige Classes require multiclassing to be able to take them. Bbauzh wouldn't exist in his current form if it weren't for the Rage Prophet requiring multiclassing.

But dipping a level of crossblooded sorcerer (orc/dragon) so you do +2 damage per damage die with your Wizard spells or dipping a level of Cleric of Gozreh so you can get the Growth subdomain so you can enlarge 7 rounds per day with your otherwise reasonable Dragon Disciple...

****

I'd remove the summoner... At least the gunslinger is only playing one character, although honestly I'd like boht removed.

Grand Lodge *****

2 people marked this as a favorite.

To be honest I'm not sure I have any class that I want to remove. But I'd love to see some gunslinger adjustments (I say this but I wouldn't allow them in my home games) - Either a 3/4 BAB class or allowing at least heavy armor to have some effect on bullet going to touch AC, or some such.

Grand Lodge **** Venture-Agent, Colorado—Denver aka roll4initiative

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Definitely the gunslinger. I prefer classic medieval style fantasy. I guess I'm in trouble in Season 6 after hearing about all the techno-whatever stuff coming up.

Grand Lodge ***** Venture-Captain, Arizona—Phoenix aka TriOmegaZero

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Summoner. The gunslinger is a close second, but has some built in drawbacks that require resources to overcome.

Silver Crusade ***

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Fromper wrote:
How long do you think it'll take for this to turn into a paladin hate thread? If we can't go at least 25 posts (real ones, not posts just to get the post count up because I said that) without an anti-paladin rant, then I'll make a new aasimar paladin, just to cheese those people off. :P

Wow. No paladin hate here. Color me surprised. Looks like gunslingers and summoners are the biggest losers.

Sean Ennis wrote:
Jiggy wrote:
Dancingweasel wrote:

Magus.

Im sure its a lovely class but I find it cheesy.

Just to make sure I'm understanding you correctly, what do you mean when you say "cheesy"?

He probably means that it makes everything better. Cheeseburger, cheese pizza, chili with cheese, etc.

Makes note to make ratfolk magus/bloatmage with obsession for cheese.

When my group played a particular scenario where we knew we'd be meeting rat folk, one member of the group brought a few big wheels of cheese to use as bribes. The GM gave us a circumstance bonus to diplomacy for it.

*****

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Fromper wrote:
When my group played a particular scenario where we knew we'd be meeting rat folk, one member of the group brought a few big wheels of cheese to use as bribes. The GM gave us a circumstance bonus to diplomacy for it.

Several of my tables have done this as well. :-)

***

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Andrew Christian wrote:


But dipping a level of crossblooded sorcerer (orc/dragon) so you do +2 damage per damage die with your Wizard spells or dipping a level of Cleric of Gozreh so you can get the Growth subdomain so you can enlarge 7 rounds per day with your otherwise reasonable Dragon Disciple...

... is perfectly fine.

Or maybe is badwrongfun if you are that type of bully.

Shadow Lodge *****

3 people marked this as a favorite.

Summoner. The eidolon needs 30 minutes of acountinig to catch an error alone, is probably built right anyway, and even if you kill it the summoner gets stronger by bringing in almost a party's worth of summoned critters every. single. round.

Grand Lodge **** Venture-Agent, Nevada—Las Vegas aka kinevon

3 people marked this as a favorite.

Witch.

It is insane that the target of a hex can save, still be affected, then get cackled to death. Literally.

You saved versus the effect, why are you still suffering from it round after round after round?

Where, in that, is there anything that increases the fun for the GM who has to deal with that kind of BS?

Dark Archive

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Magus. I love it but.... Being able to enchant your weapon cast a spell and full attack all in one round is too good... At least make it a move action for one of them!

Lantern Lodge ****

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Card Game, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Gunslingers, Especially recently I have seen gunslingers just destroy not only several scenarios, but the rest of the tables fun as well. Especially considering how powerful some of the guns actually are. (not to mention the fact it is a whole extra section of special rules for guns that just feels tacked on both in flavor and execution)

scenario spoilers:
Weapon in the rift. Gunslinger with touch ac attack and x4 d12 +something crit on one barrel, followed up by a bunch of hits. Big bad flavorful beast goes down in the second round... everyone agreed it just felt wrong.

Traitors lodge- Decide to wait around for 'the evil' Big creature appears (trying to be as spoiler free as possible) give them one round to realize how screwed they are as it appears... gunslinger decides to attack... and the evil is down before it can do much of anything.

Hellknights feast- Final fight, Gunslinger... one shot crit the boss, followed by reload and shot to kill the other obvious combatant. After all the buildup it just felt sad.

Hall of drunken Heroes- Gunslinger basically soloing without any real threat the Giant evil that was all in our heads..

Basically, It just feels like more times then not, when a gunslinger is at the table, everyone else is getting walked through the adventure, just let the gunslinger do the work. And while he may have to pay for bullets (I have seen several abundant ammunition ioun stones of spell storing.) It often seems to be a ridiculously easy table with a gunslinger build, especially for everyone else at the table. Honestly I think 90% of the problems though come from the whole touch ac thing, as I have heard gunslingers laughing at archers, and not even buying precise shot as they can just hit touch ac.

The Exchange *** Venture-Agent, Colorado—Denver aka Ahz

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Gunslinger. They are out of balance at every level. I’ve seen this playing and GMing high and low tables. Like many previous posts have noted, they take the challenge/fun out of a game. Stop the madness!

Grand Lodge ****

3 people marked this as a favorite.

Gunslinger (Musket Master or Pistolero only)
At least Summoners still need to use the AC system.

Shadow Lodge *****

3 people marked this as a favorite.

The promised upcoming bulletproof enchantment may spell the end of the gunslinger as we know it.

fingers crossed.

*****

Kyle Baird wrote:
I'd remove multiclassing.

Why do you hate martial characters?

Straight up no PrC wizard, cleric, druid, oracle, sorcerer or witch represent some of the most potent PC's around, even more so in PFS where you can be pretty certain of the number of combat encounters you are going to have in any one session.

*****

Andrew Christian wrote:
But dipping a level of crossblooded sorcerer (orc/dragon) so you do +2 damage per damage die with your Wizard spells

Finally, a way to actually get vaguely encounter relevant direct damage spells as opposed to the anaemic rubbish they are without it. Also you missed the Goblin Fire Drum for +3/dice. The move from 2e to 3e murdered direct damage as an effective form of magic as HP scale far faster than damage dice do.

Quote:
or dipping a level of Cleric of Gozreh so you can get the Growth subdomain so you can enlarge 7 rounds per day with your otherwise reasonable Dragon Disciple...

Or they could just cast Enlarge Person, its only level 1 and lasts 1minute/level. Dipping and losing yet another caster level seems like a terrible idea.

Scarab Sages **

Summoner...but only because the Eidolon rules are not so clear...

I see all of the gunslinger hate but haven't seen it at the tables...they have their moments to shine but so do the all of the 2H weapon crushing melee builds (at low levels) and all of the mage save or die aspects at higher levels. - I've seen the havoc of blindness builds.

Shadow Lodge ****

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Kyle Baird wrote:
But it's for flavor I swear!

And both of my summoners this is absolutely true (and I wouldn't have two but for a stupid argument on these forums got an idea stuck in my head).

And 200+ points touch + full bab in one round is obviously bad/wrong fun.

That and my no guns bias means the gunslinger should go.


The rogue. Not because I have rogue hate, but because I never see anyone play one who could instead play a ninja, archaeologist bard, detective bard, cryptbreaker alchemist... etc. So, might as well make it official. :D

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Dwarves, the dirty hairy drunkards! Oh wait, what class to remove. Well they already removed that a few editions ago from them!

I'd agree with gunslingers. Before playing one I didn't have any real issues with them. But playing one through skull and shackles I feel they are more than a bit overpowered at times. And I wasn't playing as effective as I could. So I'd agree with removing them.

Scarab Sages

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Kyle Baird wrote:
I'd remove multiclassing.

Hmm. Come to think of it, with all of the classes and archetypes out there that represent nearly any combination of the major class flavors, it does seem less and less necessary for preserving flavor. Once upon a time, someone wanting to play a Fighter/Wizard would have to actually multiclass Fighter and Wizard, but now they could play a Magus. If someone wants to play a Cleric/Rogue, there's the Inquisitor. For a Fighter/Rogue, they could be an Urban Ranger, or when the final form of the ACG classes are revealed, Slayer, Swashbuckler, etc, the list goes on.

Silver Crusade ****

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I'm learning a lot with this thread.

I love learning about the special "dips" that various classes make to turn their main class into a very powerful combo.

The biggest surprise so far is seeing the Summoner getting a big thumbs down. I'm playing a summoner with a serpentine Eidolon. With this build, it's built for stealth and grappling. I can see where some of the dislike is coming from and I didn't think much about the fact that the Summoner gets to avoid combat and lets his summoned creature(s) go to bat for him. I don't see this class as "broken" or overpowered though as a couple of others.

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one of the opinion that the Gunslinger can be quite overpowering on a table. That class is built to be (what I would say is) overpowered from the get-go. As a player, a Gunslinger has saved our party's life once or thrice. More often, they just dominate the encounters and take away any real challenge. As a GM, I just have to roll my eyes in disbelief as they put multiple bullet holes in demons completely turning a challenging encounter into a farce. And, I'm also one of those old-school gamers who don't like seeing gunplay in the fantasy world. I have to scratch my head and wonder why Paizo didn't see this coming when they were play-testing the class before sanctioning it. With double barrels, dual wielding, hitting Touch AC...c'mon!

The other class that I've seen turn challenging encounters into a joke is the Magus. I think every Magus I've ever seen built is basically built the same way...same recipe....scimitar, dervish dancing, shocking grasp, intensify spell, blah...blah..blah. Then, they take out the BBEG in a single blow (sometimes it takes 2 blows). This is not an exaggeration. I've now witnessed it as a player and GM multiple times.

Yes, an optimized Barbarian or optimized "whatever" (Cleric, Druid, Sorcerer, Archer) probably can do similar table wrecking like the above. The Gunslinger and Magus seem to be built for table-wrecking from the start.

Just my two coppers worth.

Dark Archive **

I want to chime in that I.believe most Summoner(and psionics) hate is based off of people who cheated. Of course cheating characters look to good. They were cheating. As.time moves forward, more and more summoner(and psionic) players are implementing the rules correctly. It is hard for most haters to not constantly complain about what they saw when what they really saw was cheating but didn't even know it.

Summoners have mediocre hp/bab/weapons/spell casting with few per day. They also have mediocre saves with 2 poor categories and 1 strong attached to an ability of no special use to the class. Light armor and no shield means they have weak AC. The Summoner itself is rather fragile and not all that contributing.

Dark Archive *****

7 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Class Deck, Maps, Modules Subscriber

I would wish to remove the class of players who call for the removal of character classes from PFS.

Looking at the repetitive posts decrying the non-open races, or non-open archetypes, and wondering why we would ever contemplate adding non-open Paizo base/core classes.... No.

Just no.

Grand Lodge ****

9 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild Subscriber

None. I'm humble enough to acknowledge that I don't have the developed skills of the people who design the game and run the campaign. Nor will I jettison a class someone else likes that was designed from these people, because of my problems with it.

1 to 50 of 453 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | next > last >>
Paizo / Messageboards / Paizo / Organized Play / Pathfinder Society Roleplaying Guild / If there was one class you'd wish Paizo to drop from PFS legality, which one would it be and why? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.

©2002-2017 Paizo Inc.® | Privacy Policy | Contact Us
Need help? Email customer.service@paizo.com or call 425-250-0800 during our business hours, Monday through Friday, 10:00 AM to 5:00 PM Pacific time.

Paizo Inc., Paizo, the Paizo golem logo, Pathfinder, the Pathfinder logo, Pathfinder Society, Starfinder, the Starfinder logo, GameMastery, and Planet Stories are registered trademarks of Paizo Inc. The Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Pathfinder Adventure Path, Pathfinder Adventure Card Game, Pathfinder Player Companion, Pathfinder Modules, Pathfinder Tales, Pathfinder Battles, Pathfinder Legends, Pathfinder Online, Starfinder Adventure Path, PaizoCon, RPG Superstar, The Golem's Got It, Titanic Games, the Titanic logo, and the Planet Stories planet logo are trademarks of Paizo Inc. Dungeons & Dragons, Dragon, Dungeon, and Polyhedron are registered trademarks of Wizards of the Coast, Inc., a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc., and have been used by Paizo Inc. under license. Most product names are trademarks owned or used under license by the companies that publish those products; use of such names without mention of trademark status should not be construed as a challenge to such status.