BTLOTM |
I have a player in one of my games who is playing a catfolk rogue who doesn't use weapons, only his claws. The problem he keeps running into (shocker) is that he can't really deal with anything incorporeal, and has issues with anything requiring magic weapons, and lacks the BAB to go the eldritch claws route.
Is there any way for him to get around this problem, besides the amulet of the mighty fists, eldritch claws, or magic fang?
M.M. |
There is an item iirc from where that allows you to enchant the claws, i'll look into it. Here you go http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons/weapon-descriptions/claw- blades :) he gets to have his own magical claws of doom. And the appropriate spell may aplly to them as they are considered a light weapon :)
Michael Sayre Design Manager |
Kep in mind that claw blades actually change the entire combat dynamic he's working with since his claws are no longer treated as natural weapons. He may be relying on the fact that currently both claws use his full BAB to hit and his full STR bonus to damage. Claw blades could potentially be a big step down for him. Orfamay's suggestion that he obtain the appropriate oils to enchant his claws when needed is good, or he could get an Amulet of Mighty Fists.
Haladir |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Keep a stockpile of potions of magic fang on hand. Or paw.
Voadam |
The feat arcane strike is another possibility.
A little bit of a stretch as it only says "treated as magic for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction" but incorporeal says they can be hit by "creatures that strike as magic weapons" which arcane strike on claws arguably is.
To get the prereq he could do rogue talent minor magic if he has a 10 int.
The end result would be swift action to claw incorporeals.
Michael Sayre Design Manager |
Ssalarn wrote:Kep in mind that claw blades actually change the entire combat dynamic he's working with since his claws are no longer treated as natural weapons.Are you sure ? The thread I linked thinks otherwise. I don't know myself.
The blades specifically say that they "change the weapon type from a natural weapon to a light slashing weapon". And go on to verify that the catfolk is proficient with them. So yeah, they're no longer natural weapons and use the manufactured weapon rules, not the natural weapon rules.
Spook205 |
That actually might be beneficial. He could get them paid to be ghost touched then.
Now, that might sound odd, but if they count as weapons then they can be improved.
I have this weird image in my head of someone going to a master smith and having his claws lined in silver, or ground down to masterwork, or having strange arcane sigils drawn into them so they can strike ghosts.
SlimGauge |
The blades specifically say that they "change the weapon type from a natural weapon to a light slashing weapon". And go on to verify that the catfolk is proficient with them. So yeah, they're no longer natural weapons and use the manufactured weapon rules, not the natural weapon rules.
I think I understand the issue better now. The other thread is saying that Improved Natural Attack applies FIRST before the clawblades turn the natural attack into a light slashing manufactured attack.
Lincoln Hills |
.,..Is there any way for him to get around this problem, besides the amulet of the mighty fists...
Am I the only one who kept reading to the end? How many people have recommended that amulet! (And I hate that amulet. Don't get me wrong, the concept is virtually essential, but I can't help thinking that some fingerless gloves in the gauntlet slot would free up that very, very precious amulet space! - Although I'm sure the various monsters that use natural attacks and have necks, but not hands, would be bummed.)
SlimGauge |
I'm pretty sure the same nerf that hit monks with brass knuckles would apply to the claw blades. Either it's a natural weapon doing natural weapon damage or a manufactured weapon doing the damage of the weapon, not both.
Claw Blades don't have weapon damage. They do whatever damage the claw attack would do, despite changing the weapon type to light slashing.
There's nothing in the FAQ tab for the Advanced Race Guide about them.
Soul |
i know you specifically said outside of magic fang, but that really is the most efficient way to achieve it. if you all have plenty of gold or are in a moderate-high magic campaign it would be relatively simple to get magic fang in a potion or (even better) wand that someone could hit him with any time a ghosty-goo pops up. beyond that rogues always have, and always will, had issues with ghosts. i suppose you could convince a caster-buddy to prep Ghostbane Dirge, or carry around a scroll/wand therof, but that spell is pretty much ass, the dc is way to low to actually effect many ghosts.
David knott 242 |
If he has only two natural attacks, then as soon as he reaches a BAB of +6 or greater the Bodywrap of Mighty Strikes is his most efficient method for getting enhancement bonuses to his claw attacks. If the problem with the Amulet of Mighty Fists is expense or filling the neck slot, the bodywrap is slightly cheaper and fills the body slot instead.
boring7 |
Against incorporeals? Just use holy water. They're almost always going to be undead.
Weapon blanch also works.
I can respect someone wanting to do the "natural fighter" thing, but it's a niche playstyle and there are only so many ways to make it work. He's also going to have problems hitting and damaging stuff at higher levels because Rogue and because Damage Reduction.
If memory serves, monk levels on claws make for extra damage, but I could be wrong.
Magic Fang can be hit with Permanency, it has downsides but it's an option.
Tomos |
Weapon Versatility can help some.
Greater Magic Fang and AoMF (like others suggested) is the best bet.
He can buy a bunch of claw blades and put ghost salt on them if he wants to be able to scratch incorporeal stuff (once).
Oil of Bless Weapon maybe?
Tomos |
Alex Cunningham |
Ssalarn wrote:The blades specifically say that they "change the weapon type from a natural weapon to a light slashing weapon". And go on to verify that the catfolk is proficient with them. So yeah, they're no longer natural weapons and use the manufactured weapon rules, not the natural weapon rules.I think I understand the issue better now. The other thread is saying that Improved Natural Attack applies FIRST before the clawblades turn the natural attack into a light slashing manufactured attack.
All due respect to rules balance, but this is a pretty ridiculous rule. I don't suddenly start not-punching because I put on gloves.
Imbicatus |
SlimGauge wrote:All due respect to rules balance, but this is a pretty ridiculous rule. I don't suddenly start not-punching because I put on gloves.Ssalarn wrote:The blades specifically say that they "change the weapon type from a natural weapon to a light slashing weapon". And go on to verify that the catfolk is proficient with them. So yeah, they're no longer natural weapons and use the manufactured weapon rules, not the natural weapon rules.I think I understand the issue better now. The other thread is saying that Improved Natural Attack applies FIRST before the clawblades turn the natural attack into a light slashing manufactured attack.
The same can be said of brass knuckles, yet those are clearly weapon attacks.
Edit: And Cestii, Gauntlets, and so on.
Michael Sayre Design Manager |
Lincoln Hills |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
All due respect to rules balance, but this is a pretty ridiculous rule. I don't suddenly start not-punching because I put on gloves.
Go on, walk up to any heavyweight boxer and tell him that he's not really "boxing," he's dual-wielding light weapons called "boxing gloves"! Ask him why he wasted all those feats.
No, I'm joking. Don't do that. Either you'll get punched out, or you'll end up introducing a new player to your table who needs one whole side of the table all to himself.
Alex Cunningham |
Alex Cunningham wrote:All due respect to rules balance, but this is a pretty ridiculous rule. I don't suddenly start not-punching because I put on gloves.Go on, walk up to any heavyweight boxer and tell him that he's not really "boxing," he's dual-wielding light weapons called "boxing gloves"! Ask him why he wasted all those feats.
No, I'm joking. Don't do that. Either you'll get punched out, or you'll end up introducing a new player to your table who needs one whole side of the table all to himself.
Since I'm a boxing coach, I'm going to assume your reply is intended to agree with me.
That said, Paizo's counter-argument might be that there is a very real difference in how you teach bare knuckle punching versus punching with properly wrapped and gloved-fists. It is not an exaggeration to say that I could teach anyone to punch so hard wrapped and gloved that he or she would break his/her own wrist on the heavy bag punching like that bare knuckled.
Kazaan |
If you don't want to shell out for an AoMF, Bodywraps of Mighty Strikes might be a good alternative. It works just like the AoMF except it only enhanced one attack per round, plus one additional every time you get an iterative attack from BAB. So once you hit BAB+6, it enhances two attacks per round, then three at BAB+11, so on and so forth. Since you're only worried about the two claw natural attacks, you don't really need more than the two enhancements per round (maybe a third to cover your AoO). And the Bodywrap is much less to enhance than the AoMF; 48k for a +4 bodywrap vs 64k for a +4 amulet.