How obvious is spell casting?

[Digital Mystic]

Is this anywhere in the core rules? Do spells have obvious effects as you cast them? Like, could a non spell-caster know the difference between a person casting a spell, and a person waving their arms around and speaking pig latin?

Also... does everyone cast the same spell the same way? Do all fireball spells look the same as they are being cast? Or will two wizards cast fireball with different movements, words, and effects?

[Zhayne]

Look under the Spellcraft skill description for most of your answers.

There are no rules regarding the look of spells being cast, but a successful spellcraft check tells you what it is, even if the spell is being cast silent, stilled, and eschewed.

[Starglim]

Digital Mystic wrote:

Is this anywhere in the core rules? Do spells have obvious effects as you cast them? Like, could a non spell-caster know the difference between a person casting a spell, and a person waving their arms around and speaking pig latin?

To someone untrained in Spellcraft or fooled by a Bluff, both might appear to be casting a spell. Verbal and somatic spell components are easy to perceive and obvious for what they are, unless the character has a specific game ability to disguise or conceal them.

Digital Mystic wrote:

Also... does everyone cast the same spell the same way? Do all fireball spells look the same as they are being cast? Or will two wizards cast fireball with different movements, words, and effects?

They don't necessarily cast the same way, otherwise there would be no need to roll Spellcraft for any spell that the character knew. Apart from anything else, multiple different classes and even divine casters can cast the same effect.

[wraithstrike]

I think it is pretty obvious. Moving your fingers in very precise patterns, and pulling out strange things such as eyeballs while being very focused and speaking gibberish is a very specific thing.

Now if you are in a low magic campaign and very few people have ever seen or heard of magic they might be surprised the first time, but afterwards anyone doing those things will likely put them on guard.

[Nearyn]

Spellcasting

At least, that is one way of visualizing it.

-Nearyn

EDIT: Also this

[Zhayne]

wraithstrike wrote:

I think it is pretty obvious. Moving your fingers in very precise patterns, and pulling out strange things such as eyeballs while being very focused and speaking gibberish is a very specific thing.

The spells only specify that you need verbal, somatic and/or material components to cast them. What the specific verbal and somatic components are is purely a flavor thing.

[Bandw2]

Zhayne wrote:

wraithstrike wrote:

I think it is pretty obvious. Moving your fingers in very precise patterns, and pulling out strange things such as eyeballs while being very focused and speaking gibberish is a very specific thing.

The spells only specify that you need verbal, somatic and/or material components to cast them. What the specific verbal and somatic components are is purely a flavor thing.

well, it has to be specific enough that the universe knows your trying to make a fireball.

[Thomas Long 175]

Bandw2 wrote:

Zhayne wrote:

wraithstrike wrote:

I think it is pretty obvious. Moving your fingers in very precise patterns, and pulling out strange things such as eyeballs while being very focused and speaking gibberish is a very specific thing.

The spells only specify that you need verbal, somatic and/or material components to cast them. What the specific verbal and somatic components are is purely a flavor thing.

well, it has to be specific enough that the universe knows your trying to make a fireball.

Doing the kamehameha and screaming fireball might do it.

Alternatively riverstomp combined with a tongue twister might do it.

[Bandw2]

Thomas Long 175 wrote:

Bandw2 wrote:

Zhayne wrote:

wraithstrike wrote:

I think it is pretty obvious. Moving your fingers in very precise patterns, and pulling out strange things such as eyeballs while being very focused and speaking gibberish is a very specific thing.

The spells only specify that you need verbal, somatic and/or material components to cast them. What the specific verbal and somatic components are is purely a flavor thing.

well, it has to be specific enough that the universe knows your trying to make a fireball.

Doing the kamehameha and screaming fireball might do it.

Alternatively riverstomp combined with a tongue twister might do it.

Well, long as the universe udnerstands

[the David]

You could use a bluff check to fake it. Perhaps opposed by spellcraft? Don't forget to add situational modifiers for not really throwing around fireballs. Unless of course you're actually throwing around fireballs, that might be pretty convincing.

Ofcourse, throwing a bead from your necklace of fireballs might be suspicious so you're gonna have to roll a sleight of hand check first so people won't notice.

So to sum it all up:
Sleight of hand check vs. perception.
Bluff check vs. spellcraft.

As for how a spell is cast, I'd say there are probably multiple ways to do this. The thing is that wizards of the same college would cast spells they've learned there in the same way. Spells you've learned from scrolls or other wizards might be different. Sorcerers don't learn spells from books so their spells are cast in a different way. They cast from scrolls the same way a wizard would though.Divine spells depend on the deities instead of the caster or his class.

[N N 959]

Digital Mystic wrote:

Is this anywhere in the core rules? Do spells have obvious effects as you cast them? Like, could a non spell-caster know the difference between a person casting a spell, and a person waving their arms around and speaking pig latin?

Also... does everyone cast the same spell the same way? Do all fireball spells look the same as they are being cast? Or will two wizards cast fireball with different movements, words, and effects?

This is something I wish the designers would comment on. In the absence such, I've got my own opinions.

1. Anyone with line of sight will know you are casting a spell.

2. All fireball's are cast the same way.

Explanation:

1. From a non-fluff side, the OOC nature combat in the game essentially requires that all players know when an NPC is casting and vice versa, similar to everyone knows who was attacked by whom each round. On the fluff side of things, magic, both divine and arcane, taps into the Weave. This is a disturbance in the fabric of reality. It's noticeable. This isn't the Force or telekinesis. It's magic, like Dr. Strange or Scarlet Witch magic. You don't know what they are casting, but you know they are casting.

2. Magic is precise and constant no matter who casts it. Everyone who casts the same spell at the same level with the same feats, has it last the exact same duration. Varisian spells don't last longer than Ulfen spells. Teifling casters don't have more range than gnome casters. That suggests that magic, is in many ways, like laws of physics. There is specific spell which allows one to cast fireball and everyone who casts it is tapping into the exact same spell. Like calculus, at least three different people discovered it independently from one another, but it's all exactly the same math.

Starglim wrote:

They don't necessarily cast the same way, otherwise there would be no need to roll Spellcraft for any spell that the character knew. .

Spellcraft is about your ability to visually see what is going on and recognize the spell as a result. In theory, all casters can easily identify the spells they cast (and everyone else's for that matter) if they put 1 skill point in Spellcraft each level and Take 10.

By 2nd level, a Wizard can have +9 in Spellcraft and recognize every single spell anyone can cast...without fail. In combat, one has to roll and that is result not being able to focus on the person casting, but having to make sure you aren't getting pasted.

And finally, it's not a given you know what your spell looks like to others. You only know what it looks like from the point of the caster. So it's easy to rationalize that a sorcerer may not recognize what his spells look like from the other side.

3. That being said, D&D and by extension Pathfinder, loves the idea of fluffing things anyway you want them. I've noticed a lot of GMs/Players insist that everyone cast differently because that fits some romantic notion about spell casters.

*shrug*

Whatever, it's a game.