Baba Yaga's temperament

[aceDiamond]

Checking out some of the Witch Queen's works, one would think that she's a scheming mastermind. But recently, I looked at Reign of Winter and it seems more like Baba Yaga, for all her ruthlessness and cunning, is just a giant child. Does anyone else think this?

Without spoiling too much, I think it was the line "No! It's mine! They can't have it!" that changed my vision of the character irrevokably.

[Deadmanwalking]

She's both. She's transhumanly brilliant, older than most nations, and so powerful that she's utterly spoiled at this point. She's petty, cruel, and vicious, because it amuses her to be so, and she doesn't feel any real need to be otherwise, since basically nobody can make her suffer the unfortunate consequences of that behavior.

You know how the internet provides immunity from consequences and accountability, thus causing a lot of people (including some very intelligent ones) to be extremely unpleasant, often in very childish ways? She's like that in her day to day life. Because she can be. Doesn't make her less smart or dangerous, just explains a lot of her behavior that doesn't happen to fall under some brilliant scheme.

[Jeven]

You mean RoW6? That's just the author. Its better to rewrite the dialogue so she comes across less as a child throwing a tantrum. His Gorilla King in another AP also came across a bit dopey.
As a fairytale witch though she should have petty moods but they should be edged with more threat.

[aceDiamond]

Even the gazette or character study or whatever it was in RoW6 showed her oddly. Especially where

Spoiler:

Irrisen is just an experiment and she becomes legitimately confused why the underclass doesn't rebel against her super powerful offspring with layers of intense protections.

She seems to also have a very Type-A personality, just because she can get away with it.

[thejeff]

I'd have to reread the module, but on my first pass the Grandmother came across pretty faithfully to me. She's a creature out of myth. She's Baba Yaga. She doesn't have to behave sensibly. She plays by fairy tales rules.

And they didn't even put in the bit about counting spoons. :)

[Jeven]

I think she is better seen second hand rather than face to face.
The Witchwar Legacy by the same author did a fantastic job in capturing her sheer viciousness. I was disappointed in ROW6 because he didn't recapture the feel of his earlier module. Instead of the fickle, cruel and vengeful witch we have a silly, petty, sulky grandmother.

[aceDiamond]

thejeff wrote:

And they didn't even put in the bit about counting spoons. :)

I'm curious.

Jeven wrote:

I think she is better seen second hand rather than face to face.

The Witchwar Legacy by the same author did a fantastic job in capturing her sheer viciousness. I was disappointed in ROW6 because he didn't recapture the feel of his earlier module. Instead of the fickle, cruel and vengeful witch we have a silly, petty, sulky grandmother.

To be fair, she is 'incapacitated' for a good run of the adventure. I welcome the change, but like I said, it does make the character seem significantly different.

[selunatic2397]

I too echo the counting spoons curiosity.

[Adam Daigle]

The counting spoons bit is from one of the folklore tales of Baba Yaga called "Baba Yaga and the Nimble Youth."

[KestrelZ]

Baba Yaga counted spoons in at least one of the tales, upsetting some kid that ultimately objected to having his spoon counted. Wound up in Baba Yaga's kitchen, only to turn the tables on Baba Yaga's daughters one by one and telling her she can feast on her daughter's bones instead of his own.

Thoughts on what the metaphor is, because I'm not sure either?

[thejeff]

There was also a folk belief, probably related to the counting spoons thing in one direction or the other, that you could foil witches by leaving something to count in their way. Scatter mustard seeds by the door and they'd have to stop and count them all before they could come in and get you.

[Graeme Lewis]

thejeff wrote:

There was also a folk belief, probably related to the counting spoons thing in one direction or the other, that you could foil witches by leaving something to count in their way. Scatter mustard seeds by the door and they'd have to stop and count them all before they could come in and get you.

They share that in common with vampires in some myths. Spill something, and the vampire will be compelled the count each and every one, thus allowing you to kill them with sunlight.

[LazarX]

aceDiamond wrote:

Checking out some of the Witch Queen's works, one would think that she's a scheming mastermind. But recently, I looked at Reign of Winter and it seems more like Baba Yaga, for all her ruthlessness and cunning, is just a giant child. Does anyone else think this?

Without spoiling too much, I think it was the line "No! It's mine! They can't have it!" that changed my vision of the character irrevokably.

Because like most living beings, she has drives that aren't mapped to complete machine like logic. After all she, she could have made herself immortal while she still had a much younger body. She deliberately waited until she was an old hag to do so because she didn't want the distractions of youthful drives.

[Cranky Dog]

Graeme Lewis wrote:

They share that in common with vampires in some myths. Spill something, and the vampire will be compelled the count each and every one, thus allowing you to kill them with sunlight.

Wait, you're telling me that Sesame Street's Count Von Count counting obsession has basis on actual folklore?

[Looks up Wikipedia:Arithmomania] Wow!

[Scorpious Prime]

Cranky Dog's comment was AWESOME! (It probably started in Kindergarden, "You mean there are two COUNTS in my name and that's alliteration? Ha-Ah-ah!!!")

I've seen chefs throw salt over their shoulders for luck but I never know the origins of these old wive's tales? Maybe to keep evil obsessive compulsive-hoarding spirits at bay?

Old edition Witch Hunters, Witch Blade, Charmed, Witches in general, to me Rock harder than most character backgrounds.

I'm not a fan of the familliar/patron, but the poppet stuff seems so cool.

I never play with a Coven, but does anyone see poweful Witch Doctor builds or uncommon witch-related mastery in combat?

I went Water Lung, prehensile hair, manuever master, to grapple and deathroll after casting Slumber. I took too many AOs and to get the creature into hazardous terrain consistently, I'd need the "Dual Cursed Oracle's Misfortune" (Way better than the Witch's Misfortune). Shockingly the first game I played, first setting had a water feature, but it was a new GM so I didn't try it.

High DCs with min maxed Cha and Wisdom saves bad enough, but then Misfortune times two to own a minion without a picture in the module is really a waste of time.

A sleeping coup de grace is powerful enough, but I just love that I can sleep underwater.

Like a vampire who needs a coffin, I need an inflatable kiddie pool, becuase I'm haunted and wasting. I'm definitely not the party's "FACE".

With a lot of GM credit, I just build an idea then I tend to fade back into playing pregens.

Baba Yaga in Irrisen is better "historically referenced", she came, she saw, she conquered, then she left. In earlier editions we fought gods and teleported away, I think that the Winter Wonderland has human slave mines, the city of Crows, the borderlands with Ice Giants, the low fences around ever building except one and chicken legged huts at the various outposts with freaky dolls of destruction, Yaga should just be a symbol without too much of our interactions.

I have never played the adventure path, but I trust the thread comments that the author may have had to emphasize other material in his story, we could youtube vlog how an interview with her would play out. "So Baba Yaga, what are your true feelings about the child scent restrictions in PFS?"...

[Ross Byers]

The counting thing is vaguely related to being able to defeat a kappa by bowing to it, compelling it to return the bow and tipping the water out of the bowl on its head.

The fundamental idea being as powerful as these creatures may be, they can be beaten by anyone, as long as they remember the rules. It returns a sense of human control and mastery into tales about beings that exceed us.