Lucian
Male Lycanthrope Outcast
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SKILLS
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Strength d8 []+1 []+2 []+3 []+4
___Melee: Strength +2
Dexterity d12 []+1 []+2 []+3
___Stealth: Dexterity +1
Constitution d6 []+1 []+2
Intelligence d4 []+1
Wisdom d6 []+1 []+2 []+3
___Perception: Wisdom +3
Charisma d6 []+1 []+2
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POWERS
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Handsize 4 []5 []6
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If the top card of the blessings discard pile is a Blessing of the Gods, add 1([]2)([]3) to your combat check.
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After your first exploration, examine the top card of your location deck; you may immediately move to another location.
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CARDS
Favored card type: Random
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WEAPON - []1
SPELL -
ARMOR - []1 []2
ITEM 4 []5 []6 []7
ALLY 4 []5 []6 []7
BLESSING 6 []7
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BASIC DECK
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1 Thieve's Tools
4 random items with the Liquid trait
4 random allies with the Animal trait
6 Blessing of the Gods
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ROLE: PILLAGER
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POWERS
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Handsize 4 []5 []6
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If the top card of the blessings discard pile is a Blessing of the Gods, add 1([]2)([]3) to your combat check ([]or check against a barrier with the Lock or Obstacle trait).
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After your first exploration, examine the top card of your location deck; you may immediately move to another location ([]or succeed at a Stealth 8 check to immediately explore again).
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[]You may discard ([]recharge) a random card to shuffle your location deck.
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[]When you encounter a boon, you may succeed at a Perception 8 check to automatically acquire it. If you fail the check, banish the boon.
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[]When you discard a Blessing of the Gods for its power, recharge it instead.
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[]When you close a location, shuffle the remaining boons into the location deck and place them under the location ([]and automatically acquire the top card).
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ROLE: LUNATIC
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POWERS
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Handsize 4 []5 []6
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If the top card ([]or card underneath the top card) of the blessings discard pile is a Blessing of the Gods, add 1([]2)([]3) to your combat check.
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After your first exploration, examine the top card of your location deck; you may immediately move to another location.
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[]You may discard a random card to shuffle the blessings discard pile. ([]If the discarded card is a Blessing of the Gods, recharge it instead.)
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[]You may bury a card to add d10([]+1)([]+2) to your Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution check.
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[]When you discard Blessing of the Gods for its power, recharge it instead.
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[]When you reset your hand at the end of your turn, you must recharge all cards in your hand instead. At the start of your turn, draw up to your handsize.
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I apologize in advance, as I fear my response may be somewhat negative, at least in part due to frustration with items unrelated to this issue. That being said, you have some solid ideas here, so let's get right to it.
Your abilities/skills are solid. The fact that you have no weapons is going to make that melee skill a lot more disappointing than it appears currently, but I'll dig into that more later. Overall, I don't see any issue here.
Your cards look fine. I assume from your basic deck that you are supposed to have 5 items? you only list 4 in the card feats, but I assume that was an oversight.
For the lycanthrope power, I feel there are 2 issues, one of which I'm probably going to need to explain further, as I've nly recently come around to it. The first issue is that it is just too weak. When you don't have a full moon, you deal an average of 6.5 damage, or just slightly better than Sajan with no blessings (which is terrible). When you do, it goes all the way up to...7.5, which is still terrible. If you keep this ability, it needs to upgrade, probably somewhere around 1d4 []+1 []+2.
For the second point, I believe in another person's homebrew I said I liked the concept of using the lycanthrope ability on a PC. However, over time I've really soured on it. First of all, the power leve fluctuates wildly over the course of the AP. At the start, it's maybe a but under 50/50, depending on how many blessings the character decks are using. Over the first few adventures, it becomes more and more powerful as PC's replace their BotG with other blessings, increasing the density in the deck. But then, you get to AP 3 and start removing basics, which lowers the density again. Granted, you could choose not to remove BotG when you close a location with one in it, but that comes to the second problem: it doesn't play well with others. Every other character wants fewer BotG, since they are more likely to get a signature blessing, and have a better chance of recharging a blessing due to matching the top card. The lycanthrope power turns that on its head, as now someone is actively campaigning against removing BotG, which could potentially create intra-table conflict, the last thing you want in a co-op.
Sorry if I got a bit ranty there. I just know that my thoughts are a bit counter-intuitive, and wanted to make sure I stated them as clearly as possible.
Your second power is one I really like. It's something I've never seen before, and seems completely reasonable. Good work.
For your pillager role, I like both of the extensions on the initial powers. They are logical extensions, and bring them in potential new directions.
For the location shuffle, I don't think I've ever seen a random discard done before, and I don't know how much I like it. I'd personally see if I could get away with discarding any card, but it's a good ability otherwise.
The perception ability...
Just to remind you, here's what I wrote in your Human Wizard thread about a similar ability:
isaic16 wrote: Knowledge to Acquire: NO. I'm sorry, but this is the single most broken ability I have seen posed on these boards. By itself, on a worse ability, I don't think I'd like it, as it removes variety. However, considering your Knowledge is already through the roof, and that every magic boon gives you a free explore, this is just excessive. I'm sorry if I'm being harsh, but here's the bottom line: Don't adjust this ability. Don't tweak it. Kill it and replace it with something in the ballpark of reasonable. This ability is worse. The gameplay is even more stagnant, since not only are you using the same ability each time, you have the same DC, too! And it doesn't even need to have the magic trait! The skill you are using isn't as powerful, but if you invest all 3 skill points into it (which you will, because it's broken), you will get every boon in the game 5/6 times, unless of course there's another check you can attempt that's even more likely.
Variety and uncertainty are a large part of what makes a game like this fun. An ability like this creates certainty and stagnation. I can see using this on a subset of boons (items, maybe adding weapons with a feat), but as it is, this ability is unusable. I am hoping you designed this character before you received feedback on the Wizard, otherwise you really should have known better.
Having Blessings of the Gods as your signature blessing actually conflicts with your lycanthrope power, since it reduces the number of full moons that will be available in the blessing deck. I actually might consider having the lycanthrope ability activate on a BotG on top of your deck or in your hand, in which case this power works just fine.
The retain boons ability smells too strong, but I'm not sure. It may be worth testing, though it does interact in strange ways with the general store. Not knowing whether to close a location is one of the major balancing forces of the game, and I'd be cautious in messing with it.
Discarding a card to shuffle the blessings discard feels too weak to me. Recharging a card might be worth spending a power feat on. A discard that would sort the blessings discard might even be reasonably worth testing.
The barbarian rage power is perfect for a lycanthrope, good call on that.
That last ability is really interesting. It's a strong defensive power, but makes you very unhelpful to your allies. Fits a lycanthrope flavor pretty well actually, probably worth at least trying.
isaic16 wrote: Your cards look fine. I assume from your basic deck that you are supposed to have 5 items? you only list 4 in the card feats, but I assume that was an oversight. Definitely an oversight.
Quote: For the lycanthrope power, I feel there... Originally the full moon worked on all checks and that reduced the actual number of power feats I could actually give him by a lot. I agree that it is sort of weak now that it just works on combat. I'll have to look into this.
I think the power in itself encompasses flavor, creates pre and post scenario group decisions and interaction, as well as blessing deck building.
First, note that your werewolf is a Outcast, a loner. And by choosing to play this character, you must be prepared to role play as such. You will still have powers to assist your teammates but most of your abilities will be for helping yourself first and foremost. You will have to make conflicting decisions with your teammates, though not convenient at times, it plays into the essence of the character. You will need to know when to balance your needs with the team.
Quote: Discarding a card to shuffle the blessings discard feels too weak to me. Indeed, the random discard abilities feel weak. I do not know how much impact it creates in manipulating the location deck or even the blessings discard pile with the Lunatic. These are powers i am looking to change eventually, if i find something more suiting.
Quote: The perception ability... Yes I've read what you've written with Magnus, and I'll be honest that I didn't like how you started it with a resounding "NO".
The ability is in itself an option that overlaps with the ability to recharge your BotG. This is the dilemma I see with all checks to acquire in all characters when they have a power feat that allows them to recharge a blessing or a character in the party can cast cure. Example: "What if another character encountered a boon I want but he doesn't have the skill to acquire it? I have a Perception 8 check feat and he doesn't. I should've taken that feat to recharge blessings instead as it would both benefit me and an character." Again, it is an option and I believe that more options in terms of power feats make for better, more diverse builds. There is so much you have to invest in this power feat that I believe it isn't as unbalanced as you think. If you wanted to pick up both the BotG Recharge and the Perception check, how will that affect you in encounters with banes now since you just pick up stuff mostly?
I'll admit that this power feat is largely questionable when it comes to solo play, but if you're an outcast that would totally make sense.
Quote: Having Blessings of the Gods as your signature blessing actually conflicts with your lycanthrope power, since it reduces the number of full moons that will be available in the blessing deck. I actually might consider having the lycanthrope ability activate on a BotG on top of your deck or in your hand, in which case this power works just fine. This power feat is actually somewhere close to broken in my mind right now because of how BotG is anything from the top of the discard pile. I'll have to check on this. I really have no plans on changing the interaction with the blessings discard pile as of now as it is what makes this character so unique and challenging to play.
How does this character handle combat checks? No weapons, no arcane and no power feat to significantly help in combat is crazy. Give this thing some claws and teeth!. A werewolf should be able to fight.
I apologize, as I do feel I put too much negativity in the post I provided. I do believe that the perception power will not be fun in practice, but by all means, give it a test and let me know!
Finally got a bit of time on my hands and thought to chime in a bit, because the only other Lycanthrope Char in this forum i know of, is from me.
And i tested him through the complete adventure (And he was uterly useless in the last Scenario of the last AP.)
Frist to get to something isaic said. The problem with the BotG, there is non, at least in my group nobody had a problem with not banishing BotG.
And even if, here is my suggestion for you i used on my Werewolf.
First of, widen the Full Moon Bonus to everything physical, so ever Strength, Dexterity and Constitution check. Makes it a lot better than just combat. And secondly, add a power feat to display a BotG at the start of your turn to get your effect. With that, you don´t have to fanaticly try to keep every BotG in the Blessing deck. And you can buff yourself with a cost, even when the Blessing deck isn´t going your way.
(And of course discarding the displayed BotG at the end of your turn.)
To get to the perception power. I´m with isaic here. Like it is now, it´s to powerful. I wouldn´t throw it out of the window, but i would let it scale with the AP, to simulate that every check to get stuff gets harder in later APs. Something like Perception 4+AP-Number. Than you start at 8 and go up to 10.
On the other hand, the Stealth 8 for extra explore is great in my opinion.
I can´t really say anything to the rest of your powers, because personally i despise to much randomness, so i´m the wrong one to ask here.
And lastly, there was one skill i was really missing for your Lycanthrope, you are an animal, why do you have no Survival?
I hope this helps, and if you want to look at some things i referenced or as inspiration, this would be my Werewolf. (But i think he is more powerful than yours, because he is a Fighter, not a Scavenger.)
gallinule has a very very good point. I seem to have forgotten how this guy handles combat checks. Will be reworking on this gaping flaw.
Quote: And even if, here is my suggestion for you i used on my Werewolf.
First of, widen the Full Moon Bonus to everything physical, so ever Strength, Dexterity and Constitution check. Makes it a lot better than just combat. And secondly, add a power feat to display a BotG at the start of your turn to get your effect. With that, you don´t have to fanaticly try to keep every BotG in the Blessing deck. And you can buff yourself with a cost, even when the Blessing deck isn´t going your way.
(And of course discarding the displayed BotG at the end of your turn.)
To get to the perception power. I´m with isaic here. Like it is now, it´s to powerful. I wouldn´t throw it out of the window, but i would let it scale with the AP, to simulate that every check to get stuff gets harder in later APs. Something like Perception 4+AP-Number. Than you start at 8 and go up to 10.
Many valid points with regards to the Full Moon bonus. I actually formulated a similar power but for the roles, I'll try to integrate the power and make it weaker so that it can work on base.
As for the Looter power, I'm removing spells and blessings from the pool because it isn't flavorful for him especially when he has weak intelligence. Plus, he's a borderline insane werewolf that's why he can go lunatic and it also justifies his randomness.
The character will under go a big overhaul to facilitate the changes of the base.
v2.0
-Modified the basic powers heavily and finally allowed Lucian to carry weapons, much to my dislike. This in turn modifies the scavenging power.
-Modified Full Moon power. It can now be used to support other characters.
Lucian
Male Lycanthrope Outcast
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SKILLS
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Strength d8 []+1 []+2 []+3
___Melee: Strength +2
Dexterity d12 []+1 []+2 []+3 []+4
Constitution d6 []+1 []+2
Intelligence d4 []+1
Wisdom d6 []+1 []+2 []+3
___Perception: Wisdom +2
___Survival: Wisdom +1
Charisma d6 []+1 []+2
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POWERS
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Handsize 4 []5 []6
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You may add 1d8([]+1)([]with the Magic trait) to your Melee, Dexterity or Constitution check; unless the top card of the blessings discard pile is a Blessing of the Gods, you are dealt 1 Mental damage that can't be reduced.
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After your first exploration, you may immediately move to another location.
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CARDS
Favored card type: Item
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WEAPON 2 []3 []4
SPELL -
ARMOR - []1 []2
ITEM 6 []7 []8 []9
ALLY 1 []2
BLESSING 6 []7 []8
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BASIC DECK
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2 random weapons
6 random items
1 Dog
6 Blessing of the Gods
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ROLE: PILLAGER
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POWERS
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Handsize 4 []5 []6
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You may add 1d8([]+1)([]+2)([]with the Magic trait) to your Melee, Dexterity or Constitution check; unless the top card of the blessings discard pile is a Blessing of the Gods, you are dealt 1 Mental damage that can't be reduced. ([]Add 6 to the check if it's to defeat a barrier.) ([]Add 4 to the check if it's to acquire an item, armor or weapon.)
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After your first exploration, you may immediately move to another location ([]or succeed at a Perception 7 check to immediately explore again)([]or succeed at a Survival 6 check to recharge 1 card from your discard pile).
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[]When you close a location, shuffle the remaining items and weapons into the location deck and place them under the location ([]and automatically acquire the top card).
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[]At the start of any turn, you may discard a blessing to treat the top card of your discard pile as if it were the top card of the blessings discard pile this turn.
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ROLE: LUNATIC
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POWERS
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Handsize 4 []5 []6
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You may add 1d8([]+1)([]+2)([]with the Magic trait) to your Melee, Dexterity or Constitution check; unless the top card of the blessings discard pile is a Blessing of the Gods, you are dealt 1 Mental damage that can't be reduced. ([]You may add 1d12 and the Poison trait to the check if it's a combat check.)
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After your first exploration, you may immediately move to another location ([]or succeed at a Survival 6 check to recharge 1 card from your discard pile).
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[]You may add your Charisma die to another character's noncombat Charisma check at your location. If they fail the check, they are dealt 1 combat damage.
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[]You may bury a card to add 1d10([]+2) to your Strength or Charisma check.
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[]When you reset your hand at the end of your turn, you must recharge all cards in your hand instead. At the start of your turn, draw up to your handsize.
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[]At the start of any turn, you may discard a blessing to treat the top card of your discard pile as if it were the top card of the blessings discard pile this turn.
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I think you did formulate the last power of your roles the wrong way around.
As it is now, it changes the top card of your discard into the top card of the blessing discard (which is useless), and not changing the top cards of the blessing discard into the top card of your discard (what i think was intended).
And was it intentional that you can boost Dex and Consti, but not Strength, seems kind of odd to me. (+6 on barriers and +1d12 on combat might be to high, but that can only be figured out by play-testing.)
On last minor thing, i would add "random" to the 1 card you can recharge with a Survival 6 check. That´s more in line with anything else that can heal.
And you might want to think about giving him the option for Weapon Profiency, there aren´t a lot of weapons in the game later on that don´t need it.
I hope this is helpful.
Love this version. There may be some tweaks needed here and there, but, seriously, I was going through the list of powers and I'm not sure I saw one thing that I genuinely didn't like. At worst it was 'not sure about those numbers'. Great job. Below are more detailed comments:
1. Agree on all of Fenris's points.
2. That is a great variant of the full moon effect. In fact, it might be good enough that you don't need weapons as a default, since adding a d8 is the same as a non-discarded longsword. The one mental damage penalty is good flavor, and I think balances it out without making the power useless. You should be proud of this design.
3. By no means is this a necessity, but you may consider dropping his dex to a d10, and pumping another stat (Wisdom?). The reason I say this is that a d12 dex screams for using ranged weapons, and yet the melee skill and the character concept are much more indicative of a melee type. Going to a d10 would mitigate some of that confusion.
4. The number bonuses on the full moon effect probably need to be tweaked. That being said, I don't have a good gauge on the proper number, so it may be best to just start with the initial estimate. I will say that, like me, you tend to err a bit on the powerful side, so it might be better to start with a lower number, and bump it up if it's too weak or boring, rather than the other way around.
5. It isn't a bad power by any means, but I don't get the flavor of the charisma sharing ability. Could you explain that?
6. Finally, not a problem, but just a bit of a surprise that I just realized. You have a lycanthrope that has no damage reduction ability. That seems odd to me. If you find you need to fill a slot, I'd consider going that direction.
7. It might be worthwhile to have only the pillager get the perception bonus option, and the lunatic only get the survival bonus. I just say this because it feels like it would serve to define the roles better in my opinion. It's fine now, but I do like visual cues like that, personally.
Hope that helps!
Fenris235 wrote: I think you did formulate the last power of your roles the wrong way around.
As it is now, it changes the top card of your discard into the top card of the blessing discard (which is useless), and not changing the top cards of the blessing discard into the top card of your discard (what i think was intended).
I see it. Thanks for pointing it out.
Quote: And was it intentional that you can boost Dex and Consti, but not Strength, seems kind of odd to me. (+6 on barriers and +1d12 on combat might be to high, but that can only be figured out by play-testing.) He could boost Melee, but I've made changes so it's back to Strength. 1d12 Poison isn't really potent in RotR.
Quote: On last minor thing, i would add "random" to the 1 card you can recharge with a Survival 6 check. That´s more in line with anything else that can heal. Noted.
Quote: And you might want to think about giving him the option for Weapon Profiency, there aren´t a lot of weapons in the game later on that don´t need it. Nah, this guy is as dumb as bricks that he'd never be proficient with anything. That's who the character is.
isaic16 wrote: 2. That is a great variant of the full moon effect. In fact, it might be good enough that you don't need weapons as a default, since adding a d8 is the same as a non-discarded longsword. The one mental damage penalty is good flavor, and I think balances it out without making the power useless. You should be proud of this design. It's a really flavorful design. Initially started out with Poison damage to represent rabies but I eventually chose Mental for...the character's lack of mental health.
Quote: 3. By no means is this a necessity, but you may consider dropping his dex to a d10, and pumping another stat (Wisdom?). He can go either ranged or melee, but he'll never be proficient with weapons. I originally wanted him to acquire weapons instantly but banish them if unused, it was really difficult to template. I don't want to make the dex d10 due to the Catfolk monk already taking that spot.
Quote: 4. The number bonuses on the full moon effect probably need to be tweaked. The original values were high because he couldn't carry weapons. They will be rescaled.
Quote: 5. It isn't a bad power by any means, but I don't get the flavor of the charisma sharing ability. Could you explain that? By choosing Lunatic, the character loses a chunk of his sanity and becomes feral. Other characters can try to tame him and use his ferociousness to deter foes, but if they fail the check they end up being bitten.
Quote: 6. Finally, not a problem, but just a bit of a surprise that I just realized. You have a lycanthrope that has no damage reduction ability. Pillager was built to have no mitigation but have tremendous acquiring power. He was designed to be a pack member, and isn't really good for solo.
Lunatic is a lone wolf. He has a modified damage mitigation ability which is very powerful.
Quote: 7. It might be worthwhile to have only the pillager get the perception bonus option, and the lunatic only get the survival bonus Good point.
Thanks for the replies.
Salt I would like to make your character into an actual card with your permission.
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