Limit Aasimar / Teifling grandfathering


Pathfinder Society Roleplaying Guild

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Silver Crusade ****

I propose making current players who already have an active tiefling not eligible for the 1 xp exemption on a new tiefling? Likewise making current players who already have an active aasimar not eligible for the 1 xp exemption on an aasimar?

The whole reason this exemption was made was for players who have not yet played these races, who have limited play opportunities, or have only recently started playing pfs?

*****

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This really shouldn't be that big of a deal. Let people play what they want to play and game how they want to game.

Grand Lodge ***** Venture-Agent, Florida—Melbourne aka trollbill

Um...so we would have to stop playing out active Tiefling & Aasimar characters because we can no longer be grandfathered in?

Grand Lodge ***** Venture-Captain, Arizona—Phoenix aka TriOmegaZero

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Azzure Chuk Chuk wrote:
The whole reason this exemption was made was for players who have not yet played these races, who have limited play opportunities, or have only recently started playing pfs?
Blog wrote:
Does this mean you can create several new characters, play a scenario with each, and have several native outsiders waiting for when you need them? Well, we debated long and hard whether to require 4 XP per character, as at that point one is past the free rebuilding stage. However, we also recognized this as unnecessarily punitive to casual players who may only be able to play once or twice in the next month.

I don't see anything that would suggest players of current aasimar/tieflings should be punished.

The Exchange ****

so... under this proposal, if I have a PC with only 1 XP that is an A. or T. I cannot rebuild him? (because I do have another PC who is an A. or T.)

Silver Crusade ****

If you already have a teifling/aassimar you aren't getting punished. Your already established character who has more that 1 xp is grandfathered in. You just couldn't put in a new 1xp grandfathered character.

It's not punishing you if you already have a tiefling/aasimar character because the whole reason this exemption was made was for players who have not yet played these races, who have limited play opportunities, or have only recently started playing pfs.

Grand Lodge ***** Venture-Captain, Arizona—Phoenix aka TriOmegaZero

No, the exemption was made for those who can only play a few times a month.

Quote:
However, we also recognized this as unnecessarily punitive to casual players who may only be able to play once or twice in the next month.

Unless you can find something specifically saying that only those without such characters are intended to be covered, you can't say that was the intention.

According to you, I should not get to play my barbarian as an aasimar simply because I have my paladin. And that isn't punishing me?

Quote:
To answer your question, yes, you can make 10 aasimars and play The Confirmation an equal number of times, but we're trusting you'll exercise some good taste and respect a decision made with the larger community in mind.

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OP
No

The Exchange ****

Azzure Chuk Chuk wrote:

If you already have a teifling/aassimar you aren't getting punished. Your already established character who has more that 1 xp is grandfathered in. You just couldn't put in a new 1xp grandfathered character.

It's not punishing you if you already have a tiefling/aasimar character because the whole reason this exemption was made was for players who have not yet played these races, who have limited play opportunities, or have only recently started playing pfs.

Trying to understand this better....

I have a PC with 1 XP. He is an Aasimar. I played him in Fallen Fortress as an Aasimar Street Performer Bard. He's my #-15 PC.

I also have a PC that is 9th level now. She's a Tiefling. She's my #-6 PC (She's also a Boon Tiefling - not that that matters at this point).

Is this proposal saying that I should not be allowed to use the 1st level Re-training rules to change my #-15 PC? I mean, unless I change his race to something other than Aasimar or Tiefling?

Liberty's Edge *****

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

This proposal defeats the spirit of the generous grandfathering rule.

As long as folks don't abuse things. It will all be fine.

***

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OP, no.

-TimD

Silver Crusade ****

TimD wrote:

OP, Much like on Jeopardy, even if you're phrasing it all in the form of a question, you can still be wrong.

-TimD

Yeah, like you need to squeeze in a few more a/t just before the deadline.

It was a suggestion, no need to tell me I'm wrong. I assume you disagree with me which is fine.

Silver Crusade ****

Andrew Christian wrote:

This proposal defeats the spirit of the generous grandfathering rule.

As long as folks don't abuse things. It will all be fine.

Already seen posts about people abusing the generous ruling, that's why i made the suggestion.

I will be making sure I make 1 aasimar and 1 teifling before the deadline, but if I already had an aasimar and teifling i wouldn't make anymore.

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Azzure Chuk Chuk wrote:

It was a suggestion, no need to tell me I'm wrong. I assume you disagree with me which is fine.

Vehemently.

You ARE wrong. I also feel the decision was wrong and will negatively impact both my enjoyment of society play and any future purchases I make of Paizo product now that I have to second-guess their use for Society play (which is what 80%+ of my purchases are for).

However, the Jeopardy dig was likely a bit over the top, so for that, I apologize and I am editing that post.

-TimD


I haven't been playing PFS for long and my only characters are a level 4 gnome as well as an un-created character that currently receives me GM exp, but can I not create tieflings and assimars if I own the race book or am I missing something?

Silver Crusade ****

TimD wrote:
Azzure Chuk Chuk wrote:

It was a suggestion, no need to tell me I'm wrong. I assume you disagree with me which is fine.

Vehemently.

You ARE wrong. I also feel the decision was wrong and will negatively impact both my enjoyment of society play and any future purchases I make of Paizo product now that I have to second-guess their use for Society play (which is what 80%+ of my purchases are for).

However, the Jeopardy dig was likely a bit over the top, so for that, I apologize and I am editing that post.

-TimD

Your purchases are still needed to play your a/t characters you currently have. So if you enjoy them so much that money wasn't wasted.

**** Venture-Lieutenant, Tennessee—Memphis aka Mulgar

BigCoffee wrote:
I haven't been playing PFS for long and my only characters are a level 4 gnome as well as an un-created character that currently receives me GM exp, but can I not create tieflings and assimars if I own the race book or am I missing something?

You can make a new aasimar or tiefling until August 14th. After that you will need a race boon.

Shadow Lodge

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What I just did is probably a good example as to why 1 xp should be "enough".

I have a summoner whose wife is an eidolon. Their purpose for working for the pathfinder society comes down to "have you seen the cost of a good
education in Absalom?"

I was planning on introducing the kids as adventurers in a few years. They are aasimars because only a miracle of love could make such children possible. But I don't want to play them now before their parents have had their day.

Allowing me to give them gm credit now and holding them (right now the twins are 13) until assimars are rare again seems fun to me, and why 1xp should be enough to preserve their place.


I assume, as you say Mulgar, that I'd only need 1 game to cement my character's presence and have it be legit? I always wanted to try one of the more horrible and disgusting tiefling subrace, I do tire of seeing perfect beauties with every assimar and tiefling crossing my table. But ranting aside, thanks for the quick reply

Grand Lodge ***** Venture-Agent, Florida—Melbourne aka trollbill

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Even if I were to agree that this is a good idea, which I don't, what little benefit would be gained by it would be out weighed by the increase in complexity of the rules in order to implement it.

Silver Crusade ****

BigCoffee wrote:
I assume, as you say Mulgar, that I'd only need 1 game to cement my character's presence and have it be legit? I always wanted to try one of the more horrible and disgusting tiefling subrace, I do tire of seeing perfect beauties with every assimar and tiefling crossing my table. But ranting aside, thanks for the quick reply

LOL! you should see some of my PCs!

"perfect beauties"?!!

I've been asked to put away some of my table tents as the PC pictures can be .... disturbing. (and that was with one of my HUMAN PCs)

Shadow Lodge ***

Andrew Christian wrote:
As long as folks don't abuse things. It will all be fine.

Someone was talking about creating 3 aasimars and 3 tieflings and getting them to 1 XP while they can. What counts as abuse?

Shadow Lodge **

Avatar-1 wrote:
Andrew Christian wrote:
As long as folks don't abuse things. It will all be fine.
Someone was talking about creating 3 aasimars and 3 tieflings and getting them to 1 XP while they can. What counts as abuse?

Seeing as the blog post this was announced in explicitly stated you could run The Confirmation ten times to grandfather in that many characters... I'd say the bar is a bit higher than six.

****

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Avatar-1 wrote:
Andrew Christian wrote:
As long as folks don't abuse things. It will all be fine.
Someone was talking about creating 3 aasimars and 3 tieflings and getting them to 1 XP while they can. What counts as abuse?

As long as that player is present, pleasant and contributing to his party throughout those 6 scenarios, it really wouldn't bother me.

If I go and eat 12 McRibs because it's the last day they're available the only person I'm hurting is myself.

Shadow Lodge ***

Fair enough, so at what point is it considered abuse?

Curious, because this seems to be subjective.

*

I am falling out of the loop here but hoping to find a new PFS group close to my new area. Can someone please link me to rules relating to this?

Shadow Lodge *****

New Options.

Silver Crusade ****

Sitri wrote:
I am falling out of the loop here but hoping to find a new PFS group close to my new area. Can someone please link me to rules relating to this?

There are no real rules yet. It'll be in the next Guide to Organized Play, due out next month. In the mean time, all we have to go on is this blog post warning us the change is coming.

Silver Crusade ****

SCPRedMage wrote:
Avatar-1 wrote:
Andrew Christian wrote:
As long as folks don't abuse things. It will all be fine.
Someone was talking about creating 3 aasimars and 3 tieflings and getting them to 1 XP while they can. What counts as abuse?
Seeing as the blog post this was announced in explicitly stated you could run The Confirmation ten times to grandfather in that many characters... I'd say the bar is a bit higher than six.

The rest of that is :

paizo blog wrote:


To answer your question, yes, you can make 10 aasimars and play The Confirmation an equal number of times, but we're trusting you'll exercise some good taste and respect a decision made with the larger community in mind.

So that kinda implies that 10 would be to many and the line is somewhere south of 10.

*

Thanks for the info.

While a part of me is sad to see native outsiders go, I have wanted to make a kitsune and wayang for a long time (actually got to make a kitsune for a non PFS game lately.) I think that definitely softens the blow a lot.

Also, I am happy they decided 1 exp was enough to keep the outsiders running. I have a level 1 aasimar that I have no idea when I would be able to play again, but I did enjoy this character a lot the one time I was able to play him.

Grand Lodge ***** Regional Venture-Coordinator, Great Lakes aka TwilightKnight

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There are thousands of aasimar and tieflings out there already, why do you care if there are a few more? How does it affect you? Its not like a player suddenly banking a dozen aasimars is gonna make your character or play experience any different than it was last month.

Do I personally think a player should bank a stack of a/t? No, but that kinda feels like accusations of badwrongfun and we need to stop short of that. At this point, there is no harm, no foul. Just let people play as they see fit.

Explore! Report! Cooperate!

***

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Playing one Aasimar 10 times inserts an Aasimar into just as many games as playing 10 Aasimars once each.

If the worry is too many Aasimars erode the supposed rarity of the race then you'd need a restriction on how frequently they're played, not how many distinct characters there are.

For what it's worth, I haven't seem hordes of Aasimars or Tieflings. Humans are overwhelmingly the majority round here. The extra feat and skill point are really pretty attractive.


Azzure Chuk Chuk wrote:
SCPRedMage wrote:
Avatar-1 wrote:
Andrew Christian wrote:
As long as folks don't abuse things. It will all be fine.
Someone was talking about creating 3 aasimars and 3 tieflings and getting them to 1 XP while they can. What counts as abuse?
Seeing as the blog post this was announced in explicitly stated you could run The Confirmation ten times to grandfather in that many characters... I'd say the bar is a bit higher than six.

The rest of that is :

paizo blog wrote:


To answer your question, yes, you can make 10 aasimars and play The Confirmation an equal number of times, but we're trusting you'll exercise some good taste and respect a decision made with the larger community in mind.
So that kinda implies that 10 would be to many and the line is somewhere south of 10.

He'd technically have the credit, but minds wander and six pcs aren't getting to level 2 ant time soon he may stray from his plans. If not though as gm I'd give him a simple belittling phrase, "Congratulations you have 6 characters with darkvision, we're proud of you,"

Liberty's Edge *****

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Avatar-1 wrote:
Andrew Christian wrote:
As long as folks don't abuse things. It will all be fine.
Someone was talking about creating 3 aasimars and 3 tieflings and getting them to 1 XP while they can. What counts as abuse?

This would. It breaks the request that we respect the intent of the change.

But if just a few do so, then it probably won't be an issue. If lots do it, then it becomes an issue.

Personally, I'm not going to spend the time trying to police it. If someone local to me keeps having "legit" aassimars and or tieflings over and over, then I can take them to the side and request they honor the spirit of this change.

*

If it means enough to someone to back to back play 6, or even 10, level one characters in anticipation of future play opportunities, they are paying time, effort, book cost, and possibly mini cost in order to later get enjoyment out of this game.

Explain to me again who is gaining enjoyment by pulling them aside and telling them they can't or shouldn't do that?

I could be wrong, but I thought enjoyment is the point of playing a game.

EDIT: I know I have never set at a table and lost fun due to someone's race. Class however is a different story. I would be willing to open up every PC-offered race* to everyone but me, if it would mean the ban of paladins at the same time.

*drow noble not included

***** Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha aka downerbeautiful

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The grandfathering will limit itself, I'm sure.

Look at it in another light: scenarios are finite.

As a player, I've played almost all of the 1-5 scenarios. As a GM, I've GM'd almost all of the 1-5 scenarios. I only have nine characters (and one of those nine is only level two). Not without work can I get a character past level five right now.

If someone wants to go make a glut of aasimar or tiefling characters, he can run into the scenario shortage, since I'm sure he's got characters other than those he's sticking a run of The Confirmation on.


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Another recourse is the one that on of my DMs threatened when I teased him after he exclaimed joy in the no-drawback race going away, that I would make sure to grandfather an Aasamar in to haunt him with. His response was:

"That's ok, I'll just kill it."

Shadow Lodge **

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wonders how many Confirmation aasimar/tiefling death trap games are being set up

Dark Archive ****

Confirmation then 1st steps P1 then replayable lv 1 module. You spend 1 scenario for lv 3. Beyond 5 you are hurt due to the lv 6 gap.

Liberty's Edge **

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I freely admit I have a few Aasimar and Tiefling characters I plan to get legalized before the purge, but that is simply because the concepts have been in my head (and my hero labs) for a while and I would like to see how they pan out. I also have a lot of Half Orc, Dwarf and Gnome concepts, the only difference is those races aren't about to disappear so I don't have to do a silly rush.

Going cross country to conventions for a boon is not in the cards, so I will rather shamelessly get a few ready this way. I've bought the books, I like the options to be available and I plan to use them. And if this offends some DM or other player's delicate sensibilities over how I enjoy my fun, well, I will try not to lose sleep over it.

The Exchange ****

I have a PC with 2XP that I was looking to run in a game of First Steps soon.... It would get him to 2nd level after all, and is a replayable so doesn't burn a Tier 1-5 that he could use to get to 3rd...

But now I am likely to start another PC with that game of FS1... after all, I can always play him in his 3rd game later... I might want that Tiefling Arcanist... or whatever...

Shadow Lodge ***

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redward wrote:
If I go and eat 12 McRibs because it's the last day they're available the only person I'm hurting is myself.

If I'm sitting next to you at the table, I'm sure I'm getting blowblack from those 12 McRibs.

Shadow Lodge **

Conman the Bardbarian wrote:
wonders how many Confirmation aasimar/tiefling death trap games are being set up

further: to get a GM credit to grandfather an aasimar/tiefling

****

trollbill wrote:
Even if I were to agree that this is a good idea, which I don't, what little benefit would be gained by it would be out weighed by the increase in complexity of the rules in order to implement it.

This. Regardless of the intention of the rule, implementing it would be a nightmare. I've currently got 11 characters, this rule would mean that if I sit down at a con playing a level 1 Aasimar, the GM would have to look through every one of my characters before allowing it. I seldom even bring all my characters to one place, they're all in different folders and there's enough overlap that I don't need to bring all of them to fit in at whatever table I want.

Bad idea, not going to happen regardless of the merits. (And I think punitive rules like this, created simply because you don't like people using a legal option are meritless to begin with.)

Shadow Lodge

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Fomsie wrote:
I've bought the books, I like the options to be available and I plan to use them. And if this offends some DM or other player's delicate sensibilities over how I enjoy my fun, well, I will try not to lose sleep over it.

Good for you. I just played my Aasimar and she'll be fun. If a gm makes a point to unfairly targeting you, bring a rapier to your game and stick them with the pointy end.

That should solve the problem, likely giving you the chance to set up games in entirely new population.[/irony]

Liberty's Edge **

Kerney wrote:
Fomsie wrote:
I've bought the books, I like the options to be available and I plan to use them. And if this offends some DM or other player's delicate sensibilities over how I enjoy my fun, well, I will try not to lose sleep over it.

Good for you. I just played my Aasimar and she'll be fun. If a gm makes a point to unfairly targeting you, bring a rapier to your game and stick them with the pointy end.

Yeah well, Rapiers are kinda snooty for my tastes and I would hate to give the impression of arrogance by having folks think I were using the blade as a representation of my wit... especially when everyone who knows me know that I am more of the blunt, heavy mace or earthbreaker type. I believe in really addressing a problem head on, after all.

Shadow Lodge ****

Kyle Baird wrote:
This really shouldn't be that big of a deal. Let people play what they want to play and game how they want to game.

#wisdom!

But wait! Instead everyone should play as we wish them too! I mean they are too dumb to figure it out on their own anyway.

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