I am looking at making a Magus with Card Caster and Kapenia Dancer archetypes, but I was wondering what others thought of this combination?
While I realize that it means I won't be able to augment my bladed scarf, do people think being able to throw and augment the harrow cards is a reasonable trade off?
Just wanting some other opinions before I make my final decision on this combo.
EDIT: If you need reference, here are links to Archives of Nethys' pages on the archetypes.
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Wow. Kapenia Dancer Archetype. That sounds awesome. Sorry if I'm not being helpful, but dang, that's awesome.
Bladed Scarf huh? Is that like the actual item form of a Kapenia. TO THE GOOGLE!
Again, sorry if I'm not being helpful, but yeah, that's really cool.
I will throw in my 2 cents, though: I think that mixing archetypes are dangerous. I'm not too sure it's PFS legal, and you could end up losing ALL of your awesome skills.
That's just my opinion.
Keep in mind you still can't use a ranged weapon with Spell Combat. If one hand is doing the casting and must remain free for the entire duration of the action, the other hand is holding the scarf; where's your third hand to throw a card? If you free up your scarf hand and use a weapon that leaves your hand free to throw a card (ie. Unarmed Strike, Spiked Gauntlet, etc), well, not much point to the dancer archetype now is there? While they technically don't conflict as far as archetype mixing goes, that doesn't necessarily mean they work well together. Or, in other words, just because you can mix the archetypes doesn't mean you should mix them.
That's true, although the way I see it, if she's in melee, she's not going to be throwing cards anyway. It's about versatility in that case, especially since even without the kapenia, she'd have the same problem with a longsword, and she can trip you with the kapenia then throw a card in your face, and you are prone so you get the -2 to your AoO! Harrowed Spellstrike she CAN use with the kapenia in one hand, unlike Spell Combat (though yes, I do understand she cannot deliver spells through the kapenia). But, I appreciate your comments, it's something to think about.
Wow. Kapenia Dancer Archetype. That sounds awesome. Sorry if I'm not being helpful, but dang, that's awesome.
Bladed Scarf huh? Is that like the actual item form of a Kapenia. TO THE GOOGLE!
Again, sorry if I'm not being helpful, but yeah, that's really cool.I will throw in my 2 cents, though: I think that mixing archetypes are dangerous. I'm not too sure it's PFS legal, and you could end up losing ALL of your awesome skills.
That's just my opinion.
PFS legality doesn't matter to me. I don't play PFS. And yes, it's a bladed scarf, but the Varisians call it a kapenia.
As for mixing archetypes, as long as it's "legal" by the RAW and your GM doesn't mind (which for that, I know both of these archetypes are PFS legal and don't change or replace any of the same features, so yes it's PFS legal), there's nothing dangerous about it. You lose stuff, you get stuff in return. It's a matter of which options you find better for your concept.
It is true that with the Card Caster you lose one of the abilities that most people spam with other Magus's, being able to combine Spell Combat and Spell Strike.
But if you're looking to try something different, I don't see any problem with the two working together. You may not be as deadly as a the Shocking Hand, Scimitar, Dervish Dance Magus, but I figure if you think the character will be fun give it a try.
I've though about combining Card Caster with Hexcrafter.
Well, SpellSTRIKE does not require a free hand the way I read it, because it says you get a FREE attack with the melee weapon as you cast the spell. Then Harrowed Spellstrike says it works exactly the same but with ranged... so I should be able to cast the spell and throw the card as part of the casting as that's how Spellstrike normal works. The reason I see it this way is there is at least one Archetype (Skirnir) that replaces Spell Combat. Yet, you are still able to use Spellstrike. So, the one does not rely on the other, because if Spellstrike required the rules of Spell Combat, the Skirnir archetype would be broken. Or, what you have to PUT AWAY your sword before you can bash with your shield using spellstrike because the rules for an ability you do not even have and therefore cannot even use still matter?
So then, by that reading, I should be able to toss a card and cast a spell onto it as part of the attack, regardless.
So then, the only question becomes my off-hand is free... I cast the spell with Spell Combat, I then get a free ranged attack, can I then throw the card as part of the spell casting? That is, do you have to draw the ranged weapon FIRST or do you draw it as part of the casting (which doesn't make sense to me to some extent, since that would mean a rogue with a +15/+10+5 BAB could only throw one dagger per round anyway?) But, even if I can't use Spell Combat in the same round I am throwing cards, I am okay with that. :P
Regarding Skirnir, before level 8, they do have to put away their Longsword, if wielding one, to cast because they need a hand with which to cast. Except for a buckler, all shields occupy your hands in such a way that you can't use it to cast a spell so a Skirnir, before level 8, is expected to only be wearing the shield and not wielding an additional weapon. At level 8, they get Shielded Spell Combat which allows them to use their Shield hand as their casting hand, essentially overriding the requirement from Spell Combat to have a free hand for casting so now, they can both wear their shield and wield a more standard weapon and still be able to cast spells.
Ahhhh, okay. So then again though, in the case of the Card Caster, forget kapenia dancer for a minute. The thing with spell combat is it lets you make melee attacks AND cast a spell. But, what if you have the sword in your hand, and just cast a spell? You need BOTH hands free to cast a spell? So then with Card Caster you cast the spell with your off-hand, then throw the card as part of the casting. As far as I understand it, as long as you aren't ATTACKING with the sword, doesn't matter if it's in your hand or not for normal casting... but then Spell Combat lets you cast and attack at the same time. SO you add Card Caster's Harrowed Spellstrike and it lets you throw a ranged weapon as part of the casting. Does that completely trump Spell Combat from working?
Okay, just looked it up,
To cast a spell with a somatic (S) component, you must gesture freely with at least one hand. You can’t cast a spell of this type while bound, grappling, or with both your hands full or occupied (swimming, clinging to a cliff, or the like).
which means you can have a sword in your hand when casting the spell even normally, so you don't even NEED spell combat to use Harrowed Spellstrike with a sword in your hand as long as you are not using the melee attacks (even though you can) or are you saying that you must pull out the card... THEN start casting the spell... THEN throw the card?
I guess it comes down to what invest a single thrown weapon with a single touch or ranged spell as part of the spell’s normal casting time actually means as far as when you actually draw the thrown weapon.
Cause really, if it's "Stay out of melee or you are screwed" as it seems to be, then Card Caster is very much less appealing, nevermind pairing it with Kapenia Dancer.
Well, note it says DO NOT REQUIRE... then later says CANNOT BE HELD UNTIL A LATER TURN... so, that means that you could cast then draw... you just can't hold the charge past the end of your turn.
And yeah, it's pretty lame that an archetype built around throwing CARDS is better for throwing something else entirely.
Heck, maybe I'll just take Still Spell as my 3rd level feat. That would completely negate the entire problem. LOL
Partially. Spell Combat still requires the free hand, even if the spell has no somatic components.
Okay, now see read this...
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2r2ld?Card-Caster-Magus-questions
The question the first person poses, Spell Combat requires you to have a melee weapon in your main hand and nothing in your off-hand. It is unchanged by Card Caster. Then you use Harrowing Spellstrike... but if you can't draw your ranged weapon, that means you can use Spell Combat OR Harrowing Spellstrike in a round, but you cannot use BOTH in the same round?
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Partially. Spell Combat still requires the free hand, even if the spell has no somatic components.Okay, now see read this...
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2r2ld?Card-Caster-Magus-questions
The question the first person poses, Spell Combat requires you to have a melee weapon in your main hand and nothing in your off-hand. It is unchanged by Card Caster. Then you use Harrowing Spellstrike... but if you can't draw your ranged weapon, that means you can use Spell Combat OR Harrowing Spellstrike in a round, but you cannot use BOTH in the same round?
That is correct but it's far worse then that. Remember that it is only spell combat that allows a magus to make a full attack with a spell so anytime a card caster decides to deliver a spell through a card they are limited to only a single attack that round.
Overall this is actually a worse archetype then the myrmidarch since it doesn't even give you half the advantages that archetype does.