1st Level Rebuild and Grandfathering


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Grand Lodge *

I am certainly hoping that GM credit is allowed. I am the only GM in my area and we meet once a month. Due to work and living arrangements online play is not a viable option for me. I plan on using the credit from next session on the 21st to apply to an Aasimar concept that I already have built but have no credit on. This will be my -16. (after checking my list, I only have 5 characters that I have actually played)

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Silly Paizonians! It doesn't matter when you can rebuild into Aasimars and Tieflings! The important thing is that you shouldn't do it, they are bad!

no seriously, they are

Edit: Also - ease up Chris - as long as they haven't played post Aug 14th as a non-A/T, they should be good to go.

Scarab Sages *****

You wound me, friend.

Silver Crusade ****

Andrew Christian wrote:

From per, that's pretty much the rule already.

As long as folk don't take advantage, GMs shouldn't be denying things.

Now say 10 months from now someone plops down a level 1 Tiefling I'm gonna be skeptical.

So you agree that letting people rebuild into a tiefling or aasimar in September, as long as the character is still level 1 and got their first xp before August 14, is acceptable? Because there's a lot of people in this thread who seem to disagree with that. I think it would be simplest of Paizo ruled that way, but I won't claim that it's already the rule.

As for showing up in 10 months with a low level tiefling, there's a very good chance that I will. I tend to make lots of new characters, and play a lot of them at different times, so it takes forever to level them up. There's a good reason I currently have 6 PCs at level 2. I just keep coming up with more character ideas. The tiefling I plan to play on July 27 in The Confirmation might not hit level 2 for another 6 months or more.

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Paladin Ardelaneu Zakath wrote:
You wound me, friend.

If only I could do more than wound... :)

Fromper: "a lot of people in this thread" is pretty much just Chris Mortika. I agree with Chris a lot, but he's just being hard-nosed on this one - and that's coming from someone who wishes they'd never been allowed in the first place.

Shadow Lodge *****

Majuba wrote:
If only I could do more than wound... :)

There's always PaizoCon. ;)

Shadow Lodge *****

I don't think it really matters much. The more aasimars/tieflings you build up in reserve the greater chance each one has of just collecting dust.

The Exchange ****

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Ok, here's a different spin on this (at least it looks different to me)...

Let's say on the 15th I sit down at a table and pull out my 3rd level PC, glance around and introduce myself as a Nagaji (spelling?) Warpriest... being built with Judge credits all from last few years. Without a race boon.

Would this PC be legal?

At the time the chronicles were assigned, the PC could not have been a Nagaji - and maybe not even a Warpriest for part of those chronicles.

The Exchange ***** RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

Andrew Christian wrote:


Now say 10 months from now someone plops down a level 1 Tiefling I'm gonna be skeptical.

Maybe I'm focusing too much on my own situation. I have run Master of the Fallen Fortress, and the First Steps scenarios about a dozen times, assigned to characters I have never really intended to play. I introduce a new PC about once every six months or so. If I use that MotFF experience, I'll be able to bring out Aasimar for the next six years or so.

I know one fellow in Milwaukee who has about 100 Chronicles, all assigned from playing pre-gens. He'll be able to design and play Aasimars and Tieflings in virtually unlimited amounts. (It seems weird to give someone an advantage, for having played pre-gens instead of his own PC...)

So, I'm not talking about someone running a bunch of games -- or playing a bunch of Tieflings and pre-gens -- in late July. This isn't the abuse of the spirit of the rule that Mike and John were discussing. Rather, this is normal players, following the rules. If the campaign decides that any nebulous character, with any credit as of August 14th, can be built into a restricted race, that all of our undifferentiated GM credit and pre-gen babies can enter the campaign as members of a restricted race, then I'm honestly not sure what that restriction means.

(What it means is, many veteran PFS players will be able to just start with Aasimars and Tieflings, while newer players won't. That doesn't sound fair to me, and it doesn't sound like the kind of campaign that Mike would want.)

--

But Andrew, I don't know what you mean by "skeptical." Do you mean that you'll audit the character to make sure that the PC has one Chronicle from before August 14th? Or something else?

Liberty's Edge ***** Venture-Agent, United Kingdom—England—Chester aka Paz

nosig wrote:

Ok, here's a different spin on this (at least it looks different to me)...

Let's say on the 15th I sit down at a table and pull out my 3rd level PC, glance around and introduce myself as a Nagaji (spelling?) Warpriest... being built with Judge credits all from last few years. Without a race boon.

Would this PC be legal?

At the time the chronicles were assigned, the PC could not have been a Nagaji - and maybe not even a Warpriest for part of those chronicles.

It is legal. See the GtPFSOP v5.0, p37:

Quote:
you do not need to build the character until you actually play it.

(Last line of 'Game Master Rewards' section.)

Liberty's Edge ***** Venture-Agent, United Kingdom—England—Chester aka Paz

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Chris Mortika wrote:

Maybe I'm focusing too much on my own situation. I have run Master of the Fallen Fortress, and the First Steps scenarios about a dozen times, assigned to characters I have never really intended to play. I introduce a new PC about once every six months or so. If I use that MotFF experience, I'll be able to bring out Aasimar for the next six years or so.

I know one fellow in Milwaukee who has about 100 Chronicles, all assigned from playing pre-gens. He'll be able to design and play Aasimars and Tieflings in virtually unlimited amounts. (It seems weird to give someone an advantage, for having played pre-gens instead of his own PC...)

I believe that both of you are way over to the right of the bell curve in terms of amount of credit assigned to unbuilt PCs.

Shadow Lodge **

Paz wrote:

It is legal. See the GtPFSOP v5.0, p37:

Quote:
you do not need to build the character until you actually play it.
(Last line of 'Game Master Rewards' section.)

Just to point this out...

Quote:
you do not need to build the character until you actually play it.

You don't need to build the character until you play it, but you can; essentially, GM credit blobs with 1 XP dated before August 14th can be aasimars or tieflings by virtue of meeting the deadline, and if they're not actually played until after August 14th, they can be kitsune, nagaji, or wayang by virtue of not having been officially built until said races are legal.

Keep in mind that one of the stated goals of this deadline is some level of generosity; in the spirit of that, we shouldn't be trying to interpret this in the most restrictive means possible. Whatever your personal feelings about getting rid of these races are, keep them out of your interpretation of how the deadline works, please.

Silver Crusade ****

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Paz wrote:
Chris Mortika wrote:

Maybe I'm focusing too much on my own situation. I have run Master of the Fallen Fortress, and the First Steps scenarios about a dozen times, assigned to characters I have never really intended to play. I introduce a new PC about once every six months or so. If I use that MotFF experience, I'll be able to bring out Aasimar for the next six years or so.

I know one fellow in Milwaukee who has about 100 Chronicles, all assigned from playing pre-gens. He'll be able to design and play Aasimars and Tieflings in virtually unlimited amounts. (It seems weird to give someone an advantage, for having played pre-gens instead of his own PC...)

I believe that both of you are way over to the right of the bell curve in terms of amount of credit assigned to unbuilt PCs.

Beat me to it. In the case of Chris's GM credits, I'd call it a reward for GMing so much. In the case of the guy who always plays pregens, that's just not normal. I do have one friend who does that a lot, too, but nowhere near that much.

Shadow Lodge **

Fromper wrote:
Paz wrote:
Chris Mortika wrote:

Maybe I'm focusing too much on my own situation. I have run Master of the Fallen Fortress, and the First Steps scenarios about a dozen times, assigned to characters I have never really intended to play. I introduce a new PC about once every six months or so. If I use that MotFF experience, I'll be able to bring out Aasimar for the next six years or so.

I know one fellow in Milwaukee who has about 100 Chronicles, all assigned from playing pre-gens. He'll be able to design and play Aasimars and Tieflings in virtually unlimited amounts. (It seems weird to give someone an advantage, for having played pre-gens instead of his own PC...)

I believe that both of you are way over to the right of the bell curve in terms of amount of credit assigned to unbuilt PCs.
Beat me to it. In the case of Chris's GM credits, I'd call it a reward for GMing so much. In the case of the guy who always plays pregens, that's just not normal. I do have one friend who does that a lot, too, but nowhere near that much.

What do you mean, "we don't make rules based on corner cases"?

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Chris Mortika wrote:


I know one fellow in Milwaukee who has about 100 Chronicles, all assigned from playing pre-gens. He'll be able to design and play Aasimars and Tieflings in virtually unlimited amounts. (It seems weird to give someone an advantage, for having played pre-gens instead of his own PC...)

I love this guy. I will have to show him this post. He will be entertained you rememebr him.

I am still trying to convince him to make his own character.

The Exchange ****

Finlanderboy wrote:
Chris Mortika wrote:


I know one fellow in Milwaukee who has about 100 Chronicles, all assigned from playing pre-gens. He'll be able to design and play Aasimars and Tieflings in virtually unlimited amounts. (It seems weird to give someone an advantage, for having played pre-gens instead of his own PC...)

I love this guy. I will have to show him this post. He will be entertained you rememebr him.

I am still trying to convince him to make his own character.

This guy strikes me as not even entering the picture.

If he has 100 chronicles all assigned from playing pre-gens - what makes us think he is going to change his ways and NOT play a pre-gen next time he sits at a table. Or any time for that matter.

In fact, if it would get him to start generating PCs it might be a good thing...

"hmmm, let's see, I'll use #36 for this - he's a 4th level blob and I'll assign him as a Tiefling Bard! Yeah! ..."

and after all, he is only going to be able to do it ... what... 100 times?

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nosig wrote:


This guy strikes me as not even entering the picture.

If he has 100 chronicles all assigned from playing pre-gens - what makes us think he is going to change his ways and NOT play a pre-gen next time he sits at a table. Or any time for that matter.

In fact, if it would get him to start generating PCs it might be a good thing...

"hmmm, let's see, I'll use #36 for this - he's a 4th level blob and I'll assign him as a Tiefling Bard! Yeah! ..."

and after all, he is only going to be able to do it ... what... 100 times?

This guy is an interesting character. He has tons of boons he never uses, and he could be almost any race anyways.

I agree it is a non-issue. Someone that plays this much does not many other scenarios they can play any. There is NO WAY he would be able to play 100 characters.

This rare corner case does not give him the premission to play that many native outsiders. It just gives him the premission to have them.

Shadow Lodge ****

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BigNorseWolf wrote:
Show me the birth certificate!

I might need to look in the making some regional birth certificates for my characters...

-

Bad doggie... now I have more things to do for my other selves...

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Is it safe to say the desire is to reduce the accessibility of these races and increase the accessibility of others (presumably selling more books in the meantime)? It isn't like they are trying to remove them from PFS play; they mentioned making future boons for them. Isn't that goal of shifting racial figures achieved by the rules as suggested without trying to create more stipulations on the matter?

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Lets remember that this is a game and people play it to have fun. If they have a chronicle sheet assigned to a character before August 14, that character is eligible for the Tiefling and Aasimar races in any sort of rebuild they want. If they have played as something else after August 14, then I could see that excluding them from the ruling, but anyone could say they rebuilt the character any time prior to August 14 if their only chronicles are from before the cutoff.

Seeing some of the responses here, I can say with 100% certainty that I would not want to play at your table. Nothing kills a game for me faster than a power mongering, fun stomping GM. In fact, I would be happy to walk away from a table like that and would completely honestly share why, if asked. I feel like some people forget the most important, yet unwritten, rule: The only reason anyone plays or GMs is to have fun.

Grand Lodge *****

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Fromper wrote:

The wording of the original blog post could already be interpreted that way. It could also be interpreted as meaning that the PC has to already be one of those races before August 14, so disallowing rebuilding into it. That's why we need a ruling from Paizo.

To quote the Blog post itself, specifically, "The exception is any aasimar or tielfing character with at least 1 XP; these characters are grandfathered into the campaign."

The blog post says in very plain English that the character must be an aasimar or tiefling prior to the cut-off date.

Can you please explain how this is so confusing? Cause all it is sounding like to me is that you disagree with how its being worded, so you are declaring it 'too vague to tell' until we get an answer from Mike or John. That isnt likely to happen, IMO, and you may end up hurting yourself and others in the long run cause the first official answer you will likely get is Guide 6.0, which will probably come out only a week or so before Gencon.

Im not trying to keep anyone from playing those races. If youve got a level 1 now that you think you might at some point want to be an aasimar or tiefling, then 'start' the rebuild now. Like I said earlier, a character sheet that has the name, race, and PFS number on it is likely good enough for me, as long as you do that before the cut off date.

How will I know if you did? I wont. Thats the purpose of the honor system. Unless you try to rebuild it in front of me, or dont have a chronicle dated before August 14, I'll let you play it. :)

Silver Crusade ****

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It's ambiguous, because it doesn't mention level 1 rebuilds at all, which are a legal part of the campaign. Not does it mention GM credit or pregen credit characters that haven't been played as their own PC yet.

If someone GMs on August 1, puts the credit on a new PC number, and writes up the character sheet as a tiefling on August 10, but doesn't actually play that character for the first time until August 20, is that a legal tiefling?

If it is, then why wouldn't it be if the same exact thing if they first put the character stats (including race) down on paper on August 15? How would anyone know the difference? More important, why should anyone care?

Unless campaign staff clarifies otherwise, when I'm GMing, I'll just assume that any character with 1 xp before August 14 is legal to be an aasimar or tiefling. Needing to know or care when and how it became that race just seems like an unnecessary complication, which is why I'm hoping that's how Paizo will tell us to handle it.

Grand Lodge *****

Fromper wrote:
It's ambiguous, because it doesn't mention level 1 rebuilds at all, which are a legal part of the campaign. Not does it mention GM credit or pregen credit characters that haven't been played as their own PC yet.

It doesnt need to mention any of those things. Not mentioning it means there is no special circumstance for it, so you apply the rules as normal. Credit can be used to make a character using any legal stuff you want, as long as you own the source material. Simple.

Fromper wrote:
If someone GMs on August 1, puts the credit on a new PC number, and writes up the character sheet as a tiefling on August 10, but doesn't actually play that character for the first time until August 20, is that a legal tiefling?

Perfectly legal, because the character was created before August 14th.

Fromper wrote:
If it is, then why wouldn't it be if the same exact thing if they first put the character stats (including race) down on paper on August 15? How would anyone know the difference? More important, why should anyone care?

Because as of August 14th, it is no longer legal. Unless that person tells anyone, no, noone is likely to know the difference and many wont care. If the person can live with themselves for not following the rules of the game, then so be it. Cheaters gonna cheat.

Fromper wrote:
Unless campaign staff clarifies otherwise, when I'm GMing, I'll just assume that any character with 1 xp before August 14 is legal to be an aasimar or tiefling. Needing to know or care when and how it became that race just seems like an unnecessary complication, which is why I'm hoping that's how Paizo will tell us to handle it.

And that's your perogative.

Silver Crusade ****

Seth Gipson wrote:
Fromper wrote:
If someone GMs on August 1, puts the credit on a new PC number, and writes up the character sheet as a tiefling on August 10, but doesn't actually play that character for the first time until August 20, is that a legal tiefling?

Perfectly legal, because the character was created before August 14th.

Yet, we've already had people in this thread disagree with you on that. And I can see their point, as their reading is different than yours, but could be valid. This is why we need to wait for Paizo to clarify.

Shadow Lodge *****

Seth Gibson wrote:

The blog post says in very plain English that the character must be an aasimar or tiefling prior to the cut-off date.

Can you please explain how this is so confusing?

Again, when is it a tiefling?

When its played as one?

When its declared one by the player/GM in between sessions?

Grand Lodge ***** Venture-Captain, Arizona—Phoenix aka TriOmegaZero

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Again, when is it a tiefling?

How would you know? All you have to go off of is the chronicle date.

Silver Crusade ****

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Seth Gibson wrote:

The blog post says in very plain English that the character must be an aasimar or tiefling prior to the cut-off date.

Can you please explain how this is so confusing?

Again, when is it a tiefling?

When its played as one?

When its declared one by the player/GM in between sessions?

How about when I said a few weeks ago "I think I'll make a tiefling character", but didn't actually get around to registering that character number on Paizo's site and writing the details on a character sheet until yesterday? Which of those three acts officially made it a tiefling?

Grand Lodge ** RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

My wife's been wanting to play an aasimar for a while (specifically the "cool green-haired one" whose stats I don't think she even remembers), but had trouble settling on an idea.

Meanwhile, she also has a 3XP slot that's been a couple different things; I *think* the most recent was a human brawler.

She finally settled on an idea for an aasimar fighter/cleric archer, and wrote up the character sheet, using that 3XP slot.

Unfortunately, she hasn't had a chance to actually play that character yet. She might not in the next 30 days, either.

So if she comes to a table in September, finally ready to play her freshly-2nd-level aasimar archer/healer, whose XP is all from months ago, who was last played as a human, and whose character sheet was written as an aasimar in June, where exactly does she fall on this grandfathering clause?

The Exchange ***** RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

Jiggy, that's one of the gray areas. As I understand it, that's not an "aasimar or tielfing character with at least 1 XP." It's clear that other people disagree.

For example:

trik wrote:
Lets remember that this is a game and people play it to have fun. If they have a chronicle sheet assigned to a character before August 14, that character is eligible for the Tiefling and Aasimar races in any sort of rebuild they want. If they have played as something else after August 14, then I could see that excluding them from the ruling, but anyone could say they rebuilt the character any time prior to August 14 if their only chronicles are from before the cutoff.

That's one reasonable interpretation of the news, trik. Right after you, Seth articulates another reasonable interpretation, which is stricter: to be grandfathered in, you need to have played an Aasimar or Tiefling.

Quote:
Seeing some of the responses here, I can say with 100% certainty that I would not want to play at your table. Nothing kills a game for me faster than a power mongering, fun stomping GM. In fact, I would be happy to walk away from a table like that and would completely honestly share why, if asked. I feel like some people forget the most important, yet unwritten, rule: The only reason anyone plays or GMs is to have fun.

I'm going out on a limb here and guessing that, as someone who disagrees with your interpretation, I'm one of those power-mongering, fun-stomping GMs.

I'm guessing that you're equating "having the most fun" with "having the fewest restrictions." Well, all right, but then the most fun possible would be to leave Aasimar and Tiefling as open races, and just let the three new races join the fold. But we're asked to follow the rules of the campaign and restrict them.

The question is "Where do you draw the line, in gray areas?" In lieu of official clarification, we are doing our best to draw the line in a way that's fair to everyone involved and responsible to the campaign. Sometimes, that means imposing restrictions, while providing as fun an experience as possible. In this case, I think that "it would be an abuse, the kind described by the campaign leadership, for every 1st-level character to rebuild as an Aasimar or Tiefling, for every GM credit to potentially be yet another member of the restricted races. You disagree, and I respect that.

But however we feel about this issue, please remember that we're all in the same hobby, and indeed the same neighborhood of that hobby. We all want what's best for our players, our tables, and the campaign as a whole.

Shadow Lodge *****

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Chris Mortika wrote:
The question is "Where do you draw the line, in gray areas?" In lieu of official clarification, we are doing our best to draw the line in a way that's fair to everyone involved and responsible to the campaign. Sometimes, that means imposing restrictions, while providing as fun an experience as possible.

You're talking about declaring a character illegal , possibly even years after it was made because of your interpretation of a rule that a lot of people disagree with. That fight will simply not be fun and serves no purpose.

I think you need a better argument than what you have to do that go that far. As it stands you would have to ask the person when they became part of the pitchfork and halo set, because there's no way for you to tell if they started life as a dwarf and turned into an aasimar after some credit was issued. Accusations that this is cheating are simply circular.

Silver Crusade ***

Chris Mortika wrote:
That's one reasonable interpretation of the news, trik. Right after you, Seth articulates another reasonable interpretation, which is stricter: to be grandfathered in, you need to have played an Aasimar or Tiefling.

I don't think that is what Seth said.

The Exchange ***** RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

With any luck, we'll get some clarification soon, so we won't have those kinds of disagreements years down the line, BNW.

(In any case, the date of the rebuild is easy to determine, because the player needs to submit the new version of the character to the GM for a check-over / audit. The GM should record that on the Chronicle sheet.)

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grand·fa·ther clause
nounNORTH AMERICANinformal
a clause exempting certain classes of people or things from the requirements of a piece of legislation affecting their previous rights, privileges, or practices.

The whole purpose of a grandfather clause is to exempt someone from a new rule or law that didn't exist when they did something that would have broken this new rule or law. It's essentially saying the new rule, in this case the banning of Aasimar and Tiefling from PFS play, does not apply to the characters that are grandfathered in. Those characters should be able to do anything they can do now, now being prior to release of the new rule. Paizo set the bar at any character with 1XP prior to the rule change as the determination for which characters are grandfathered in.

That being said, if you rule it any differently than that, you are going against the definition of a grandfather clause and Paizo's stated eligibility for being covered by the grandfather clause. A different ruling is wrong per the concept of definition, unless Paizo specifically places additional terms and conditions on the grandfather clause.

Scarab Sages ***** Venture-Captain, Washington—Spokane

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:::Steps on soapbox:::

The blog post states that a Tiefling or Aasimar must have 1 xp applied to it before August 14th in order to be allowed in the campaign without a boon. This did not get into specifics where that 1 xp came from being GM or player credit as it does not matter. We, as a community, were empowered to exercise good taste and asked to respect the decision of Mike and John who had the larger community in mind when the decision was made. The more this ruling gets debated and an extremely clear ruling expected from Mike or John on how this should be handled, the more likely a reversal of the 1xp requirement will be changed to a 3 to 4 xp requirement thereby hurting the portion of the community that either plays online, by post, or casually. We have been given plenty of warning that we have until August 14th to create a Tiefling or Aasimar with 1 xp attached to the character and, as an event coordinator and Venture Officer, I have insured that our local community is aware of this deadline. I, for one, would hate to see the 1 xp minimum changed to 4 xp as I don't get to play much but have already created my last Aasimar and Tiefling one of which already has 1 xp applied and one is pending and if the pending one does not get the 1 xp in place, it will just be made into another race. Also if we already have Aasimars and Tieflings that are level one and want to change them under level one rebuild guidelines, we know that we are not able to change the race and then change it back after August 14th.

Please let us just respect the deadline, create our last Aasimars and Tieflings, and await the Season 6 version of the guide. We all know that those race options will not be available after the 14th and it is my hope that we will respect that deadline and insure that Mike and John do not regret the empowerment that was given to the community.

Thank you if you took the time to read this wall of text.

:::Steps off Soapbox:::

Silver Crusade ****

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Chris Mortika wrote:
The question is "Where do you draw the line, in gray areas?" In lieu of official clarification, we are doing our best to draw the line in a way that's fair to everyone involved and responsible to the campaign. Sometimes, that means imposing restrictions, while providing as fun an experience as possible.

You're talking about declaring a character illegal , possibly even years after it was made because of your interpretation of a rule that a lot of people disagree with. That fight will simply not be fun and serves no purpose.

I think you need a better argument than what you have to do that go that far. As it stands you would have to ask the person when they became part of the pitchfork and halo set, because there's no way for you to tell if they started life as a dwarf and turned into an aasimar after some credit was issued. Accusations that this is cheating are simply circular.

Agreed with BNW.

Chris is right that 'The question is "Where do you draw the line, in gray areas?"' My answer is always rule gray areas in favor of the player, unless it completely breaks the game. Letting somebody have an extra PC of a particular race that's already present in massive quantities doesn't break the game.

But again, I really do believe Paizo will give us a more detailed ruling for these gray areas, definitely when the final rules for this change are published in the updated Guide to Organized Play next month, but hopefully also with a quick post to give us some general guidance before then.

Shadow Lodge *****

Chris Mortika wrote:

With any luck, we'll get some clarification soon, so we won't have those kinds of disagreements years down the line, BNW.

(In any case, the date of the rebuild is easy to determine, because the player needs to submit the new version of the character to the GM for a check-over / audit. The GM should record that on the Chronicle sheet.)

In practice that happens how often?

Liberty's Edge *****

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Jiggy wrote:

My wife's been wanting to play an aasimar for a while (specifically the "cool green-haired one" whose stats I don't think she even remembers), but had trouble settling on an idea.

Meanwhile, she also has a 3XP slot that's been a couple different things; I *think* the most recent was a human brawler.

She finally settled on an idea for an aasimar fighter/cleric archer, and wrote up the character sheet, using that 3XP slot.

Unfortunately, she hasn't had a chance to actually play that character yet. She might not in the next 30 days, either.

So if she comes to a table in September, finally ready to play her freshly-2nd-level aasimar archer/healer, whose XP is all from months ago, who was last played as a human, and whose character sheet was written as an aasimar in June, where exactly does she fall on this grandfathering clause?

Jiggy. If you finish the build prior to August 14, and don't have time to stop by one of my game days for even 5 minutes, scan me in the rebuild and I'll email you back an approval. That should be good enough for ant concerns.

Grand Lodge ** RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

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Andrew Christian wrote:
That should be good enough for ant concerns.

I never realized that PFS could help with home pest control. The more you know!

;)

*

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Does this conversation strike any of you as eerily similar to the debates on 'When does life/soul/consciousness begin?'

Grand Lodge *****

The Fox wrote:
Chris Mortika wrote:
That's one reasonable interpretation of the news, trik. Right after you, Seth articulates another reasonable interpretation, which is stricter: to be grandfathered in, you need to have played an Aasimar or Tiefling.
I don't think that is what Seth said.

I most certainly did not say that.

I said it needs to already BE an aasimar or a tiefling, and that it needs to have agt least 1xp dated prior to August 14th. Aside from that, I dont care where the exp came from.

Now if Mike and John rule it has to be player credit, I'll abide by it until I can get them to change their mind.

:)

The Exchange ***** RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

My apologies, Seth. I truncated.

*****

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Legends Subscriber; Pathfinder Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

Strictly speaking, you need to have decided the character is an Aasimar or Tiefling before Aug. 14th (and have at least 1 XP).

Loosely speaking, no one can tell when you decided, so anytime before the first time you play it after Aug. 14th works.

Frankly, I don't really care how many more aasimar or tieflings show up before Aug. 14th, I'm too happy that they'll be disallowed after it.

Liberty's Edge *****

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Jiggy wrote:
Andrew Christian wrote:
That should be good enough for ant concerns.

I never realized that PFS could help with home pest control. The more you know!

;)

He he... Stupid phone.

Grand Lodge *****

Chris Mortika wrote:

My apologies, Seth. I truncated.

No worries. :)

***

Seth Gipson wrote:

To quote the Blog post itself, specifically, "The exception is any aasimar or tielfing character with at least 1 XP; these characters are grandfathered into the campaign."

The blog post says in very plain English that the character must be an aasimar or tiefling prior to the cut-off date.

Preston Hudson wrote:
...The blog post states that a Tiefling or Aasimar must have 1 xp...

There are other people who have 'quoted' the blog directly, but these two seem to have added the same word to the original text.

Blog wrote:
Does this mean you can create several new characters, play a scenario with each, and have several native outsiders waiting for when you need them? Well, we debated long and hard whether to require 4 XP per character, as at that point one is past the free rebuilding stage. However, we also recognized this as unnecessarily punitive to casual players who may only be able to play once or twice in the next month. To answer your question, yes, you can make 10 aasimars and play The Confirmation an equal number of times, but we're trusting you'll exercise some good taste and respect a decision made with the larger community in mind.

My emphasis. '10 aasimars' is not '10 aasimars and 10 tieflings.' Either the choice is limited to aasimars only (per the second bolded statement) or any 'new character' played before the deadline (per the first bolded).

I am not trying to make an argument one way or the other, but trying to remind folks to check the source. Especially if you plan to split hairs.

[/grammar nazi]

Silver Crusade ***** Venture-Agent, Canada—Ontario—Toronto aka pauljathome

Chris Mortika wrote:


(In any case, the date of the rebuild is easy to determine, because the player needs to submit the new version of the character to the GM for a check-over / audit. The GM should record that on the Chronicle sheet.)

Where is this specified? The only place I see this is in the playtests and errata section. It is not at all clear to me that this applies to level 1 rebuilds (in fact, I strongly believe that it doesn't).

Even if it theoretically DOES apply to level 1 rebuilds I'll absolutely guarantee that a significant portion of players and GMs don't do it. I can only speak for my own experience but I have NEVER been at a table where a level 1 rebuild was pointed out, let alone audited

***** Venture-Agent, Canada—Ontario—Ottawa aka Mistwalker

Fromper wrote:
Unless campaign staff clarifies otherwise, when I'm GMing, I'll just assume that any character with 1 xp before August 14 is legal to be an aasimar or tiefling. Needing to know or care when and how it became that race just seems like an unnecessary complication, which is why I'm hoping that's how Paizo will tell us to handle it.

I am taking a similar approach as Fromper. As long as the chronicle sheet is dated before August 14, 2014, I will have no problem with the player playing an Assimar or Tiefling. Even years down the road.

I have no problem with the new PC being a GM credit. If the individual has GM credits, then they are helping the community by running games. If they have multiple GM credit characters, that simply means that they are likely running more than they are playing. I also suspect that GMs are less likely to go overboard or abuse the system, having seen that type of activity from the other side of the screen.

***

Mistwalker wrote:

I have no problem with the new PC being a GM credit. If the individual has GM credits, then they are helping the community by running games. If they have multiple GM credit characters, that simply means that they are likely running more than they are playing. I also suspect that GMs are less likely to go overboard or abuse the system, having seen that type of activity from the other side of the screen.

Yes you keep thinking that...

Dark Archive **

Curaigh wrote:
Seth Gipson wrote:

To quote the Blog post itself, specifically, "The exception is any aasimar or tielfing character with at least 1 XP; these characters are grandfathered into the campaign."

The blog post says in very plain English that the character must be an aasimar or tiefling prior to the cut-off date.

Preston Hudson wrote:
...The blog post states that a Tiefling or Aasimar must have 1 xp...

There are other people who have 'quoted' the blog directly, but these two seem to have added the same word to the original text.

Blog wrote:
Does this mean you can create several new characters, play a scenario with each, and have several native outsiders waiting for when you need them? Well, we debated long and hard whether to require 4 XP per character, as at that point one is past the free rebuilding stage. However, we also recognized this as unnecessarily punitive to casual players who may only be able to play once or twice in the next month. To answer your question, yes, you can make 10 aasimars and play The Confirmation an equal number of times, but we're trusting you'll exercise some good taste and respect a decision made with the larger community in mind.

My emphasis. '10 aasimars' is not '10 aasimars and 10 tieflings.' Either the choice is limited to aasimars only (per the second bolded statement) or any 'new character' played before the deadline (per the first bolded).

I am not trying to make an argument one way or the other, but trying to remind folks to check the source. Especially if you plan to split hairs.

[/grammar nazi]

Exactly, I'm not going to argue one way or the other either. The way it was written leads me to believe 1 XP is the rule. The paragraph below is an example.

*****

3 people marked this as a favorite.

The intent of the blog post was to get everyone to play The Confirmation 10 more times.

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