Advice for this Monk


Advice

Shadow Lodge

I'm trying to work on a character design based around an Idyllkin who Flurry of Blows with his katana. Monk and Cleric (Crusader) make the build happen and bring it online at level 3. I thought Sohei might make his AC a bit better since his dex and wisdom aren't too high. This would allow him to nab a mithril breastplate somewhere in his future.

I'm struggling between going 'all in' with an 18 Str or being a bit more rounded.

How does this look as a character whose primary role will be as a damage dealer?

Agathion-Blooded Aasimar (Idyllkin)

Deity: Shizuru (Favored Weapon Katana)

20 point buy

AC: 17 (+4 Chain shirt, +2 Dex, +1 Dodge)

Monk (Sohei) 1: Toughness, Dodge
Monk (Sohei) 2: Deflect Arrows,
Cleric (Crusader)3: Weapon Focus (Katana), Crusader's Flurry

Str: 18
Dex: 14
Con: 12
Int: 10
Wis: 12
Cha: 9

or

Str: 17
Dex: 14
Con: 14
Int: 12
Wis: 12
Cha: 9


I assume there is an important RP reason you're being Agathion-blooded, rather than Angel-blooded? Because, if not, Angel-blooded is far superior for this build. I honestly don't think it's very viable using Agathion.


Why assimar ?
Here it offer little than arcane strike qualify.
Unless you are after angelic wings as well later on for flying warrier ?
Sohei is nice, as a str build .
I would go hungry monk / of the mountain , wisdom and str .
As angel (str /cha bonus ) it's :
15+2=7 str
13 =3 dex
14=5 con
8 = -2 int
15=5 wis
8+2=-2 cha
Lvl 4 add str , 8 wis, 12 dex
Take snake style or crane style for armor class .

Another option , assimar. Wisdom focus .
14/14/14/8/18/9
Learn guided hand - katana .

Shadow Lodge

Correct. I understand Angelblooded is superior.

Silver Crusade

Based on your current build, Sohei grants you a +1 AC as compared to a "vanilla" monk, then at level 4, it becomes even.

Edit: Blah, that's not right. It's +3, but the concept is there...don't pick sohei just for the armor.

And...sohei's weapon training won't apply to katanas, unless a katana is something other than a heavy blade.


Ok, well, if you're stuck with that race, I would personally go with the second point buy you outlined.

If this game is going to go into higher levels, I would consider starting as Samurai 1 (which gets you the Katana proficiency, among other things), and then going straight to Sohei 6. You'll have to wait until Sohei 6 to flurry with the Katana (though you can flurry with other things before then), but it will be a stronger build in the long run. One of the problems with what you propose above is a lot of BAB loss, which leads to Flurry of Misses.


The Samurai gets you proficiency with all martial weapons, in addition to the Katana (and a few others). Sansetsukon is a good martial weapon with the monk property: two-handed, 1d10, 19-20/x2 (blocking, disarm, monk). So, flurry with that until you get to Monk 6, then you can flurry with the Katana.

Silver Crusade

Sohei can flurry with the following groups...
bows, crossbows, monk weapons, polearms, spears, or thrown.

this build is getting Flurry with a katana with Crusader's Flurry. What's the need for Sohei?

Shadow Lodge

Sohei grant the ability to flurry in light armor. I figured with a 14 dex and a 12 wis my ac would be too low otherwise.


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Do you need a 'katana', or a 'katana like object'? Because, even without this multiclass and feat intensive build, you can flurry with a katana like object.

You see, nodachis (which are basically are greatsword sized katanas, for all intents and purposes, that are on the martial weapon list) are in the polearms weapon group. This is likely because, due to its length and likely use on the battlefield, it shared many similarities with polearms. So it is an excellent choice that takes full advantage of the sohei weapon training (which is the main reason to even go sohei besides the fact that armor simplifies getting a decent AC)

Anyway, you can flurry with something that is a katana with larger hit dice, so why bother? Because you want to flurry with it prior to level 6? .....honestly, I have to ask- do you even want to flurry at all before level 6?

I mean, even with the bump up to a false full BAB, the penalty for twf is still a rather large factor at early levels (particularly if you dip into a non full BAB class...like cleric). Why not wait until after the difference between your real BAB and your Flurry BAB is enough that you aren't hitting at a penalty? With weapon training on top of that, you would be more than able to accurately hit with flurry after level 6.

And really- you are using a 2 handed weapon with a high crit chance at early levels. That is pretty much a guaranteed formula for success even with normal standard attacks. Combined with the fact that very few other builds really want to set up full attacks with you prior to that (even enemies wouldn't want to stick around for full attacks most of the time), and it might just be better to wait it out.

Silver Crusade

Shooting Star wrote:
Sohei grant the ability to flurry in light armor. I figured with a 14 dex and a 12 wis my ac would be too low otherwise.

Barkskin from quinggong will help with this.


Brad McDowell wrote:
Shooting Star wrote:
Sohei grant the ability to flurry in light armor. I figured with a 14 dex and a 12 wis my ac would be too low otherwise.
Barkskin from quinggong will help with this.

Barkskin would also work with light armored sohei.

I'll admit, that with the right equipment and buffs, a nonarmored monk can have a few more AC than an armored sohei (assuming a 'strength build' with the same stats are used). But that typically requires a lot of investment and system mastery.

Sohei allows you to have decent AC from the get go without having to spread your stats too thin using the same techniques that every other martial character uses (heck, since this is a weapon using build, it could even grab an amulet of natural armor, which would make barkskin redundant). It is valuable not due to max numbers, but because it is 'simple', and thus harder to mess up.

Now admittedly, I prefer sohei for the offensive power. The +3 to attack and damage from Weapon training is great (Even if you go unarmed or monk weapons), and it has the right 'name' to qualify for gloves of dueling for another +2. Since the armor opens up the hands slot (since 'normal' monks often have to rely upon bracers of armor), and can be a magic item slot itself (for unarmed builds, brawling armor for ANOTHER +2), it is very attractive for someone looking for a DPS build. Even without flurrying, it can easily keep up with some decent melee fighters such as inquisitors.

EDIT: to add some build advice- take the armor expert trait. This is important since it basically lets you grab a mithral breastplate with only a trait. This is because nonproficient armor use means you apply the armor check penalty to your attack rolls..... so if ACP is 0, the penalty is 0. Between armor expert and mithral, you could easily grab a breast plate with this trick.

Silver Crusade

lemeres, I absolutely agree, in general. Specifically, this guys wants a katana which doesn't mechanically mesh well with sohei.

What I'm getting at...Which is more important to the build...flurry with a katana or using sohei?

Shadow Lodge

Some great points. I plan on playing PFS and my max character level for years of that is 5. So , I don't usually put too much thought into 6+. I thought flurry at low levels might be fun. Maybe I should think on it some as you all have presented excellent alternatives.

Shadow Lodge

Below is my level 3 concept.

Melee katana +6 (1d8+6/18-20) for single attacks or Flurry +5/+5 (1d8+4/18-20).

Male Agathion-Blooded Aasimar (Idyllkin) Cleric (Crusader) of Shizuru 1/Monk (Sohei) 2 (Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Combat 0, 0)
LG Medium outsider (native)
Init +5; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +7
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 19, touch 13, flat-footed 16 (+6 armor, +2 Dex, +1 dodge)
hp 25
Fort +6, Ref +6, Will +6
Defensive Abilities evasion; Resist acid 5, cold 5, electricity 5
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft.
Melee katana +6 (1d8+6/18-20) and
unarmed strike +5 (1d6+4)
Special Attacks channel positive energy 2/day (DC 11, 1d6), flurry of blows
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 3rd; concentration +2)
1/day—summon nature's ally ii
Cleric (Crusader) Spells Prepared (CL 1st; concentration +2):
1st—divine favor, shield of faith[D]
0 (at will)—detect magic, light
D Domain spell; Domains Glory, Honor
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 18, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 9
Base Atk +1; CMB +5; CMD 18
Feats Crusader's Flurry[UC], Deflect Arrows, Dodge, Improved Unarmed Strike, Toughness, Weapon Focus (katana)
Traits reactionary, xa hoi soldier
Skills Acrobatics +7, Climb +7, Diplomacy +3, Escape Artist +5, Perception +7, Sense Motive +7, Stealth +5
Languages Celestial, Common
SQ aura, devoted guardian, honor bound, truespeaker, unarmed strike
Other Gear lamellar (leather) armor, mithral breastplate, katana, 30 gp
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Aura (Ex) The Cleric has an aura corresponding to his deity's alignment.
Cleric (Crusader) Domain (Honor)
Cleric Channel Positive Energy 1d6 (2/day, DC 11) (Su) Positive energy heals the living and harms the undead; negative has the reverse effect.
Crusader's Flurry May use flurry of blows with deity's favored melee weapon
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Deflect Arrows (1/round) While have an empty hand, negate one ranged weapon hit you are aware of (unless from a massive weapon).
Devoted Guardian +1 (Ex) At 1st level, a sohei can always act in a surprise round even if he does not notice his enemies, though he remains flat-footed until he acts. In addition, a sohei gains a bonus on initiative rolls equal to 1/2 his monk level. At 20th level, a sohei's
Energy Resistance, Acid (5) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Acid attacks.
Energy Resistance, Cold (5) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Cold attacks.
Energy Resistance, Electricity (5) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Electricity attacks.
Evasion (Ex) If you succeed at a Reflex save for half damage, you take none instead.
Flurry of Blows +0/+0 (Ex) Make Flurry of Blows attack as a full rd action.
Honor Bound (4/day) (Su) Allow target to re-attempt a save vs. Compulsion or Charm.
Improved Unarmed Strike Unarmed strikes don't cause attacks of opportunity, and can be lethal.
Point-Blank Shot +1 to attack and damage rolls with ranged weapons at up to 30 feet.
Truespeaker Learn two languages for each rank you put in Linguistics.
Unarmed Strike (1d6) The Monk does lethal damage with his unarmed strikes.

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