Monstrous Physique III / IV vs. Giant Form I / II

[SuperCracker]

For a character that wields a weapon (a la Eldritch Knight), which one of these spells do you think is better?

Monstrous Physique III (which seems to be the sweet spot of this spell) grants the user

Huge: +6 strength, -4 dexterity, +6 natural armor bonus
Large: +4 Strength, -2 dexterity, +4 natural armor bonus

As well as a slew of special abilities, depending on the form, and more importantly, a lot of natural attacks (with a -5 to them because you are wielding a weapon and using them as secondary natural weapons). Monstrous Physique IV adds some abilities, but nothing that wows me over III. The forms I like the most are the Four-Armed Gargoyle, the Calikang, and the
Thriae Queen.

Then there's Giant Form I and II. Both at higher spell levels than Monstrous Physique.

Giant Form I grants Large size +:
+6 strength, -2 dexterity, +4 constitution, +4 natural armor, low-light vision

And a small array of abilities depending on the form, which include darkvision, rend (which won't be useful for a weapon wielder), rock throwing/catching (again, not useful generally), regeneration 5, and resist 20 element damage.

Giant Form II allows you to go Huge and gives:
+8 strength, -2 dexterity, +6 constitution, +6 natural armor, low-light vision, +10 enhancement bonus to speed, and a similar array of abilities, except this time you can get a swim speed and elemental immunity.

Giant Form is an 8th level spell, but at first glance it underwhelms me compared to Monstrous Physique III/IV, which are 5th and 6th level spells, respectively.

Does anyone else have thoughts/insight about how these stack up against each other during play? I'd love to see what people think.

[sunbeam]

Eh, not saying anything mechanical about the merits of the spells. But becoming a 4 armed freaky thing just isn't in the cards for most of my characters.

If I built a character around shapeshifting, like an alteration wizard maybe it would fit.

But your average Magus (not sure if he gets Giant Form spells)?

I'm going with a Giant Form. Storm Giant for the win.

[SuperCracker]

sunbeam wrote:

Eh, not saying anything mechanical about the merits of the spells. But becoming a 4 armed freaky thing just isn't in the cards for most of my characters.

If I built a character around shapeshifting, like an alteration wizard maybe it would fit.

But your average Magus (not sure if he gets Giant Form spells)?

I'm going with a Giant Form. Storm Giant for the win.

Valid point for roleplaying purposes. I've had that thought myself, too. As for Magus, it doesn't get Giant Form. It only gets Monstrous Physique.

[Fruian Thistlefoot]

They also get undead anatomy spells as well as form of the dragon 1.

For a strength magus I would say giant form is the route to go. Increase weapon size, damage, reach,

For a dex magus I would use undead anatomy style spells.

Really just use what fits and forget the rest.

[SuperCracker]

I feel like we may have gotten off track. Magus doesn't receive Giant Form. This is geared more towards an Eldritch Knight who could cast one spell or the other.

Not to mention that Monstrous Physique also increases size and reach.

[ProfPotts]

For a pure slugfest I'd think that Giant Form wins out because of the Constitution bonuses (and remember that they're size bonuses, thus stackable with the more usual enhancement bonuses from spells and belts and the like) and the regeneration. I'd not dismiss rock throwing too quickly either - remember that the stated 'range' is the range increment (so you can chuck rocks 5x that distance) and that at Huge size you're chucking medium-sized rocks (so, a rock 5ft across: pretty much an area effect right there): it's even better if you can swing being able to throw 'rock-like' missiles (like all those tasty siege engine ammunition types from Ultimate Combat... or your team-mates - fastball special style...) by your GM...

... but for general 'adventuring' Monstrous Physique is clearly a better choice: not least because you don't have to get big with it, but also 'cos of the wide variety of movement types and other abilities those spells provide... and at a much lower spell level too.

[plaidwandering]

The whole slew of natural attacks doesn't have to be at -5, the spell isn't going to give you the weapons the monster normally has.

4 armed gargoyle is good to go at monst phys 2, when large and pounce are available

I don't think that Calikang is better until monst phys 4, and that's debatable for the breathweapon, but no pounce

if you're going nat attacks, monst phys is much better

if you're relying on weapon attacks, giant form would be better(as you probably don't have an AoMF either)