Party Buffer


Advice


I'm looking to make a character which is the ultimate support character. I want to buff members, and be a superior healer. I want to be there solely for the purpose of making my party succeed. Any advice on the best way to make this happen? It will be society play, so keep that in mind. thanks.

Silver Crusade

There are plenty of ways to do what you describe. Such PCs are quite effective in PFS play. The position of 'best support build' is heavily contested. The best options seem to be full or 2/3 spell casters.

In The Forge of Combat essay this type of PC is called an 'arm'. Here are a few viable options:

1. Life Oracles are the best healers, but are not especially good buffers.

2. Evangelist Clerics have outstanding buffs, but are not very good healers.

3. Bards have good buffs and a little healing, decent arcane casting, and are also skill-monkeys.

4. Non-spellcasters can also fill the support role, but they have to really work hard at it.

Regardless of which approach you choose, make sure your PC can also fill another role. E.g. Perhaps your Bard is a secondary archery hammer, able to inflict a lot of damage. E.g. Your Evangelist Cleric can also fill the role of Anvil, by summoning monsters to provide battlefield control. E.g. Magda is a PFS Evangelist Reach Cleric built as a melee beatstick hammer. Note that quickly slaying foes by inflicting massive damage is a very effective way to help your team win ...

A lot of people make their support characters martially incompetent. I think this is usually not a good idea. I've GMed several random PFS groups composed mostly of support PCs, with no one able to inflict HP damage. These groups struggled exactly as described in the essay as 'groups without hammers'. These were unusual occurrences and not the PFS norm.

I once played alongside an optimized support PC who gave all the other characters +6 to hit for +6 damage on round one. The adventure was a ROFLstomp, of course. This character was easily MVP on the team.


This is kind of what I want, in the last sentence you wrote. What was this PC?

Grand Lodge

If you want strong healing AND buffing you're fairly restricted to Cleric or Oracle. However, what I've often found is that the most well-rounded a party is, the better it performs, and the less and less it needs a person in the heal-bot role. In this case, I would suggest one of three class options:

Bard. I find two builds work best for this. The first is the standard bard. Pros: high charisma,, plenty of skill versatility, throws out Inspire courage/good hope/haste, then calls it a day. I would suggest the Flagbearer feat and the Banner of the Ancient Kings, thus removing the need for Good Hope and giving you the ability to throw out all of your necessary buffs in one round. This works best when you have a few more martials to support (minimum 2, works wonders at boosting allies' iteratives and 3/4 BaBers)

Bard Archer. This build I like the most, and falls in line with Magda's suggestion of filling a second role (in this case, massive DPS). Dexterity and Charisma are a priority, followed by Strength and Con. A 2-level dip into paladin gives you everything you want in Precise Shot, Longbow proficiency, and Cha to saves (seriously this one is a huge boon). You should probably run Aasimar (musetouched) in order to keep your inspire courage up to par. You won't be able to use the flagbearer feat, but you still have Inspire courage/haste and now you can use good hope, while benefiting from those same buffs when you're launching a ton of arrows at +5/+5. The best form of crown control is death (sans those stupid necromancers.

Next on our list is the sorcerer/wizard. Minor buffing abilities, but that's is not where our support comes in. For this build, we will specialize in conjuration for most combat control. Alternatives include enchantment and illusion, but conjuration fits our needs. Haste is still a primary spell. Seriously, best buff spell in the game. Your supporting strength comes in the form of crown control. Why do you need heals when your opponent is locked in an Aqueous orb or blinded by glitterdust, or when your summoned monsters are eating the hits? Probably the one you want least here, but had to be said.

Finally, the Oracle/Cleric/ Shaman (see ACG playtest). These guys have a portion of buffing spells (see Blessing of Fervor, the Divine Haste), and also have access to healing, but I don't think going full-blown life oracle or healing domain cleric is absolutely necessary. Buffs and utility spells are crucial here (for all the builds, always have a way to deal w/ invisibility, be it glitterdust, see invisibility, or invisibility purge). Anything that hinders and opponents attacks is effectively prematurely healing your allies. Anything that misses because of a debuff (which is the oracle/cleric speciality, hmm I guess we can add witch to this category) is more power to you (and generally prevents more damage than your spells would heal!). For domains, I would suggest: Travel (just always good to have), Liberation (your allies hitting because of being freed by you is effectively damage you're doing), and Luck (I'm seeing a Desna trend here..). I only used Core Rulebook, so there may be other useful ones in other books. Oracle Mystery/Revelations that are good include: Life (for strict super healing, but that's basically all you'll ever do, Boring!), or Lore (be that knowledge monkey! Knowing is half the battle...). Far more important in my mind than the mystery choice (there's potentially better ones in UM, I'm just getting lazy) is the dual-cursed archetype. See that misfortune revelation? Take it, worship it. This allows allies to rerolls misses, and allows you to negate crits.

Honorable mention: Hospitaler Paladin. The amount of hurt these guys can take is phenomenal. You'll be up in the front in heavy armor and a shield taking the hits. Prioritize charisma, place shield other on those squishy allies, and spam lay on hands and channels (quick channel if needed) and this actually becomes a fairly useful way to heal. I would strongly suggest the Fey Foundling feat at first level to maximise self-healing, and for race either human for the feat or tiefling for the increased self-healing of lay on hands. To make sure you're not ignored, you could take improved trip or something along those lines to keep yourself relevant. As probably mentioned above, conditions on enemies are crippling, and very support-y. If that wasn't enough, combat expertise requires a 13 intelligence. Want to know what else does? Unsanctioned knowledge. This feat allows you to add other classes' spells to your list. Hmm, Haste? (If you can't tell, I love haste. Yes I do play barbarians/archers/two-handed paladins) Other buff spells also of use. However, your 1st level spells prepared will generally consist of hero's defiance, hero's defiance, and maybe another hero's defiance. You'll be taking tons of damage from shield other, so you have a risk of dropping. Other notable mentions include paladin's sacrifice (more saving your allie's with worse saves/AC) and the litanies (stupid strong spells, no save conditions, or heck double damage for anybody with a good aura, aka paladins, clerics, etc.)

TLDR: Healbots aren't great. Focus on buffing/debuffing, use control spells or damage to remove enemies from the fight. The best defense is a good offense.


I really love Evangelist Cleric

You get standard cleric buffs, lots of status removal spells, and are sturdy enough to not die when things do get to you. The Evangelist archetype also gives you bard song, so you're providing lots of turbo buffs.


Thanks for the two great posts.

Grand Lodge

My vote goes for a evangelist cleric. Bardic performance is a good buff. This leaves a good amount of things for spells.

You can go a summoning route with summon feats.

You can also go enchantment route. The evangelist spontaneous list is a lot of enchantment spells.

I dislike but you could do a AoO reach cleric. Im not a fan of swinging a weapon on a cleric beyond level 5. Buffing up to be a good fighter is wasted action economy and you could have just rolled inquisitors, paladin, warpreist, fighter, barbarian, swashbucker, cavalier,.... you see the point. Most other classes swing harder without wasting lots of time with round/ level buffs. A cleric is a 9 level spell class. It is what makes it a T1 class. I play it like a caster.

A feat of mention will be divine intervention/interference. It forces refills for crits on your team. That is far better then most healing can provide.


i love druid.
the spell list is full of buffs.
the summon can offer flanks.
the animal companion can offer grapple or bull rush tanking.
or, if domain, heroism (lion shaman) is amazing.
craft wands and you got ton of healing.

clerics are also amazing. glory + X are the way to go.
summon and channel energy for healing.
great spell list.


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Hyanda wrote:
This is kind of what I want, in the last sentence you wrote. What was this PC?

Here is my favorite buffer/debuffer:

Human Evangelist (Heroism)

Attributes: (20 point buy)
STR - 10
DEX - 14
CON - 14
INT - 10
WIS - 14 (+2 racial bonus, +1 @ 4th, 8th, 12th & 16th)
CHA - 14

Traits:
Community Minded
Reactionary or Omen

Feats:
1st - Toughness
1st - Skill Focus: Intimidate
3rd - Weapon Focus
5th - Dazzling Display
7th - Improved Initiative
8th - Skill Focus: Survival
9th - Eldritch Heritage: Orcish Bloodline (Touch of Rage)
11th - Divine Interference
13th - Discordant Voice
15th - Quicken Spell
16th - Skill Focus: Diplomacy
17th - Heighten Spell
19th - Preferred Spell: Breath of Life

Variant Channeling: Bravery/Valor

Skills:
Diplomacy (1-20)
Intimidate (1-20)
Performance: Oration (odd levels)
Survival (even levels)

The primary source of buffs would be Inspire Courage, Aura of Heroism and Spells. In that vein, for instance, at 8th level you could open up with Inspire Courage as a move action, Aura of Heroism as a swift action and something simple like Communal Protection vs. Evil or Blessing of Fervor as a standard action. If you were to the former, you'd be granting +2 attack & +2 damage from Inspire Courage, +2 attack, +2 saves and +2 to skill checks from Aura of Heroism as well as +2 saves and +2 AC from Protection - for a total of +4 attack, +2 damage, +4 saves, +2 AC and +2 to skill checks all on the opening round of combat. Alternately, if your GM allows you to use variant channeling, you could grant an additional bonus to AC for one round and to attack rolls if your fellow party members charge. It makes for a superb opening round combo.

A couple of other tricks to this build:

Touch of Rage is a potentially massive buff, eventually topping out at +9 attack and +9 damage which, thanks to Community Minded, lasts for three rounds.

A nice follow up to that opening round of buffs can be a Dazzling Display. In addition to Skill Focus: Intimidate, you'll also have the advantage of the 1st level Domain ability Touch of Glory which allows you to add your level to a single Charisma-based check (pre-castable up to an hour before combat). Blistering Invective would be great here, but unfortunately its not on your spell list.

Divine Interference is a massively helpful ability, forcing opponents to re-roll as an immediate action. The best use I've seen it put to is as a crit eraser, allowing you to sacrifice a 1st level spell to force a foe to re-roll an attack which would have been a critical threat.

This is actually a character that could be played as a pacifist of sorts as his martial ability is quite pedestrian - that opens you up for the healing achievement feat if your GM allows the use of those. Alternately you could ditch Toughness, Weapon Focus, Dazzling Display and the Skill Focus feats to instead opt for Summoning feats instead like Spell Focus: Conjuration, Augment Summoning, Summon Good Monster, Sacred Summons and Superior Summoning. All will hold you in good stead, especially later on down the road when some of the creatures you summon will have spectacular abilities of their own - and they will, of course, also benefit from your buffing powers.

At the end of the day though, this is a Cleric that rarely spends his time healing because he rarely has to. Outside of combat you're a world-class face due to your Enchantment spells, your social skills and your Domain ability. Everyone absolutely loves playing with this guy.


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With a bit of optimization either a Bard or Evangelist Cleric can buff like crazy while also filling other roles. Both get Inspire Courage which will make your melee want to have your babies. Mix in Good Hope from the Bard or the Heroism Domain for the Evangelist and you get a whole load of stacking buffs, then season with Haste or Blessing of Fervor to taste.

Neither is a brilliant straight-up healer, but both can use wands and cure spells when needed. Best of all though, it generally doesn't take many (or any) feats to optimize their buffing role. So you have plenty to spend on something else; being a melee beatstick, reach AoO specialist, archer or fantastic summoner, for example.


Wizard. Obviously the Bards and Clerics and Oracles can do this job, but nobody expects it from a wizard. Mending, Enlarge Person, Mage Armor, Reduce Person, Infernal Healing, Floating Disk, Blur, Invisibility, Bull's Strength, Cat's Grace, Haste, Heroism, Invisibility Sphere, Water Breathing, Fly, Communal Resist Energy, Communal Protection From Arrows, Telekinetic Charge, Communal Protection From Energy, Stoneskin, the list goes on and on. And you can provide battlefield control or debuffs as needed instead of combat healing.

Liberty's Edge

A Helpful Halfling (trait) Bard or Cleric of Sarenrae (Evangelist with Heorism or vanilla Cleric with Heroism and Restoration domains) wielding a longspear can not only buff magically but can, without placing themselves in too much danger, aid another with their front-line allies for an additional +4 to hit or +4 to AC, depending on the situation.

Gives you something to do in the rounds after you've fired off all your buffs. If interested in pursuing that more, you can add in the Halfling combat traits Cautious Fighter and Blundering Defense (I'm not aware of anything that prevents you from fighting defensively while aiding another in combat), meaning you'd be sharing +6 AC to one person on top of whatever else you've been handing out via Inspire Courage, Prayer, Heroism, or whatever else you're tossing around.


Gregory Connolly wrote:
Wizard. Obviously the Bards and Clerics and Oracles can do this job, but nobody expects it from a wizard. Mending, Enlarge Person, Mage Armor, Reduce Person, Infernal Healing, Floating Disk, Blur, Invisibility, Bull's Strength, Cat's Grace, Haste, Heroism, Invisibility Sphere, Water Breathing, Fly, Communal Resist Energy, Communal Protection From Arrows, Telekinetic Charge, Communal Protection From Energy, Stoneskin, the list goes on and on. And you can provide battlefield control or debuffs as needed instead of combat healing.

If you decide to go Wizard (an interesting option to be sure but not what I think you're looking for), make sure you consider the Void Mage, or rather, a Wizard with the Void elemental school specialty.

Shadow Lodge

I agree with Kiinyan. That's just about exactly what I would have said myself.

I would add: a vanilla Cleric with thoughtfully chosen Domains and the Reach Spell feat is a superior buffer.
Take any of the 'Communal' buffs from UC and you have a winner.
Reach Resist Energy, Reach Protection from Evil, and Reach Breath of Life are my favorites.

Also, the channeling feats from Inner Sea Gods give you some fantastic options as a buffer. Layer on supplemental buffs and make channeling worthwhile. Two-for-one is a good plan.
My favorite is Fateful Channel.

Grand Lodge

Eh...I'm totally against channel feats myself. Channeling is terrible way to heal in combat. Feating up a bunch of Channel feats also take a lot away from your 9 levels of spell casting. When it comes to pathfinder Damage outweighs healing. So the best way to counter that is with Mitigation and Controlling the incoming damage. Pathfinder is not an MMORPG where you play a dedicated healer that just heals away damage done to everyone during the fight. Healing in Pathfinder typically comes after the battle in the form of Wands, Channels, Potions, and scrolls.

Shadow Lodge

Fruian Thistlefoot wrote:
Eh...I'm totally against channel feats myself. Channeling is terrible way to heal in combat. Feating up a bunch of Channel feats also take a lot away from your 9 levels of spell casting. When it comes to pathfinder Damage outweighs healing. So the best way to counter that is with Mitigation and Controlling the incoming damage. Pathfinder is not an MMORPG where you play a dedicated healer that just heals away damage done to everyone during the fight. Healing in Pathfinder typically comes after the battle in the form of Wands, Channels, Potions, and scrolls.

I think that's another argument for another thread (or 20, or 100).

But, did you see what Fateful Channel does? So awesome!
Add the Quick Channel feat and you're all set to maximize buffing and action economy.

Fateful Channel wrote:
...grant each creature you heal the ability to roll twice and take the better result on a single attack roll, skill check, or saving throw of their choice within a number of rounds equal to your Charisma bonus (minimum 1)...

Would you cast an abjuration spell that does this? I would.


Tomos wrote:

I agree with Kiinyan. That's just about exactly what I would have said myself.

I would add: a vanilla Cleric with thoughtfully chosen Domains and the Reach Spell feat is a superior buffer.
Take any of the 'Communal' buffs from UC and you have a winner.
Reach Resist Energy, Reach Protection from Evil, and Reach Breath of Life are my favorites.

Also, the channeling feats from Inner Sea Gods give you some fantastic options as a buffer. Layer on supplemental buffs and make channeling worthwhile. Two-for-one is a good plan.
My favorite is Fateful Channel.

Instead of reach go oracle of life for buff spells and heals or , the cleric above with familiar ( eldritch heritage) to deliver the touch spells ...

Or take a domain that add a familiar ( Druid domain )


Argh, going Life Oracle to act as a party buffer is not good. They're great healers, but picking a limited number of spells from a list always restricts them. They don't have many ways to get off-list spells either now that the Eldritch Heritage (Arcane) route has been FAQ'd to death. They also don't actually pick many non-spell ways of buffing other than some potential temporary HP from overhealing and maybe channel feats.

Grand Lodge

Quote:
I think that's another argument for another thread (or 20, or 100).

Yeah but I'm sure he hasn't read the other threads. Good to inform him how sub-par channel feats are.

Quote:

But, did you see what Fateful Channel does? So awesome!

..grant each creature you heal the ability to roll twice and take the better result on a single attack roll, skill check, or saving throw of their choice within a number of rounds equal to your Charisma bonus (minimum 1)

That is a good ability. Great for those Sub-par channel specialists who are wasting feats on channeling and trying to get more versatility out of a minor ability of a tier 1, 9th level caster. You could completely remove channeling from a cleric and they would still be a tier 1 class.

Quote:
Add the Quick Channel feat and you're all set to maximize buffing and action economy.

Fateful channel + Quick Channel = 2 feats.

Fateful channel will less likely be used the first round of combat or your wasting the channel completely to heal everyone for 0 damage because they are at full. Not to mention healing 0 is not healing...thus I would say the feat doesn't work when healing a fully healed creature...you can not over heal in Pathfinder.

Quick channel then burns 2 uses of your limited ability. True they get to reroll a single attack roll, skill check, or saving throw but sometimes that roll is even lower then the one they got. I've seen someone reroll a 5 into a 2 or 1 many of times. Sometimes fate just wants you to fail.

Now since fateful might not be used round 1 that means you run the risk of hitting the enemy who has closed on your party members. grant each creature you heal Well shit I just made them better by mistake. Guess that means I should get selective channeling.

Selective channeling + Fateful channel + Quick Channel = 3 feats

See how this trend of grabbing channel feats turns into "I'm now a sub-par channel cleric"..... Really quickly.

If you like the reroll factor then go evangelist cleric with the Luck domain.
If your really lucky ad your GM lets you take monster feats...Quicken spell like ability Bit of Luck. Your turns will look like this: Quick action- Bit of Luck player X, Move- Start performance, Standard- Prayer

Shadow Lodge

666bender wrote:


Instead of reach go oracle of life for buff spells and heals or , the cleric above with familiar ( eldritch heritage) to deliver the touch spells ...
Or take a domain that add a familiar ( Druid domain )

I don't agree with this advice.

Using a familiar to deliver a buff is much less effective and efficient than simply casting it and walking around touching other PCs.
Also, your familiar can die.
Reach Spell lets you deliver a touch spell buff to the whole party without using your move action or exposing yourself to AOOs. It also lets you spontaneously cast a Reach Cure X Wounds if you need to (very handy).

The Animal domain gives you an Animal Companion. Not the same as a familiar.

Oracle of Life is not a very good buffer for the reasons Corvino said. They can buff, but they're definitely not 'the ultimate support character' which is what the OP is looking for.

@Furian: I see that you have strong feelings and opinions about this topic. I disagree with most of what you said, but your ideas are still solid advice. There are advantages and disadvantages to this style of support play.
IMO, it's good for the OP to know that there is disagreement on this issue; they can and should decide what approach they want to take.

The Luck domain is a good suggestion though. I agree that this is a good choice for a support character.

Grand Lodge

Quote:
The Animal domain gives you an Animal Companion. Not the same as a familiar.

Share spell is strong >.>

Have you met my Enlarged Bear yet? I call him chance. He is fluffy and a Killer. Would you like to Chance the bear?

Quote:

@Furian: I see that you have strong feelings and opinions about this topic. I disagree with most of what you said, but your ideas are still solid advice. There are advantages and disadvantages to this style of support play.

IMO, it's good for the OP to know that there is disagreement on this issue; they can and should decide what approach they want to take.

Cleric is one of my favorite classes. I have also played a channel cleric before and found out how poor they are for myself. So much more you can be doing then channeling and focusing on it. I just remember how disappointed I was finding out first hand how bad it is...watching your team die because the incoming damage far outweighs channel healing. Even Quicken channel+ normal channel wasnt enough at times. The cost of resurrecting people was becoming outragous and in the end we as a group had lower amount of supplies and gold because of it.

But you are right the OP should know Channel strategies are highly debatable.


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You all gave me a lot to consider. thanks for taking the time to give me your thoughts.

Shadow Lodge

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Fruian Thistlefoot wrote:
Quote:
The Animal domain gives you an Animal Companion. Not the same as a familiar.

Share spell is strong >.>

Have you met my Enlarged Bear yet? I call him chance. He is fluffy and a Killer. Would you like to Chance the bear?

Yes, but the Animal Companion can't generally Deliver Touch Spells.

The Animal Domain is actually not a half-bad idea for a Buffer/Support Cleric. If you're going to be focused primarily on defensive buffing, keeping people alive in combat, and battlefield control, having a nasty pet hanging around can be great.
Be sure to take Boon Companion so they don't get squashed easily.

Furian wrote:

Cleric is one of my favorite classes. I have also played a channel cleric before and found out how poor they are for myself. So much more you can be doing then channeling and focusing on it. I just remember how disappointed I was finding out first hand how bad it is...watching your team die because the incoming damage far outweighs channel healing. Even Quicken channel+ normal channel wasnt enough at times. The cost of resurrecting people was becoming outragous and in the end we as a group had lower amount of supplies and gold because of it.

But you are right the OP should know Channel strategies are highly debatable.

That's a shame. I played a support/channel focused Cleric (RotRL, pre-Ulitmate Magic) through 16th level and I had a great experience with it. It seems that table variation, combat nuances, dice rolls, party coordination, and spell selection are important factors for how running a support caster plays out.

Know your group, how they play, and figure out how best to support them.
Groups are different and play with different styles.

Here's a good bit of advice to the OP:
Optimizing for buffing/support on this forum is only part of what you need to do if you want to be effective. Optimizing specifically for the group you will be playing with is the rest of the story.


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Hyanda wrote:
You all gave me a lot to consider. thanks for taking the time to give me your thoughts.

Consider the Summoning option seriously. It serves a much more varied purpose than simply combat. One Summon Monster IX during a major battle, for instance, will give you a Trumpet Archon and access to his healing spells, after he fights for you and the battle is won, you'll be able to take advantage of his 2 Heal spells, 2 Mass Cure Serious Wounds, 1 Mass Cure Light Wounds, 1 Raise Dead, 1 Cure Serious Wounds, 2 Cure Moderate Wounds, 1 Neutralize Poison, 2 Lesser Restoration and so on... not a bad exchange for a single spell slot.

The build I offered above would be much the same, but without the Intimidate option:

1st - Spell Focus: Conjuration
1st - Skill Focus: Diplomacy
3rd - Augment Summons
5th - Sacred Summons
7th - Superior Summons
8th - Skill Focus: Survival
9th - Eldritch Heritage: Orc bloodline (Touch of Rage)
11th - Divine Interference
13th - Discordant Voice
15th - Quicken Spell
16th - Skill Focus: Knowledge - Planes
17th - Heighten Spell
19th - Preferred Spell: Planeshift (makes for a nasty touch attack)


How about a Hexcrafter Magus for debuffs, you can grant fatigued, entangled, shaken and prone with a single hit. Totally screws the target. Plus you can also use intensified shocking grasps to inflict crippling damage.
Don't worry about healing, that's what you do after combat!


Wiggz wrote:
Hyanda wrote:
You all gave me a lot to consider. thanks for taking the time to give me your thoughts.

Consider the Summoning option seriously. It serves a much more varied purpose than simply combat. One Summon Monster IX during a major battle, for instance, will give you a Trumpet Archon and access to his healing spells, after he fights for you and the battle is won, you'll be able to take advantage of his 2 Heal spells, 2 Mass Cure Serious Wounds, 1 Mass Cure Light Wounds, 1 Raise Dead, 1 Cure Serious Wounds, 2 Cure Moderate Wounds, 1 Neutralize Poison, 2 Lesser Restoration and so on... not a bad exchange for a single spell slot.

The build I offered above would be much the same, but without the Intimidate option:

1st - Spell Focus: Conjuration
1st - Skill Focus: Diplomacy
3rd - Augment Summons
5th - Sacred Summons
7th - Superior Summons
8th - Skill Focus: Survival
9th - Eldritch Heritage: Orc bloodline (Touch of Rage)
11th - Divine Interference
13th - Discordant Voice
15th - Quicken Spell
16th - Skill Focus: Knowledge - Planes
17th - Heighten Spell
19th - Preferred Spell: Planeshift (makes for a nasty touch attack)

very nice!

i would also consider travel domain, the mini D-door can bring the fighters into flanks or out of grapple.
is there a glory/travel official god?
of so.... WOW


Last time I checked there was no Glory/Travel official Pathfinder deity. That would be a very nice combo.

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