rather than sort through 18,034 matches (seriously) to the search "vital strike," i'd rather start another thread. :-)
which other feats is vital strike compatible with? power attack? combat expertise? improved feint? whirlwind attack?
is there a rule of thumb for making this clear?
PA? Yes
CE? Yes
IF? No
WW? No
Rule of thumb, if the feat you're trying to add indicates it takes an action to do (i.e. move action for improved feint, full round for whirlwind, standard for cleave), then it can not be combined with the Vital Strike chain. Vital Strike can pretty much only be used when you the regular standard action from the combat chapter to use the "Attack" action.
PA? Yes
CE? Yes
IF? No
WW? NoRule of thumb, if the feat you're trying to add indicates it takes an action to do (i.e. move action for improved feint, full round for whirlwind, standard for cleave), then it can not be combined with the Vital Strike chain. Vital Strike can pretty much only be used when you the regular standard action from the combat chapter to use the "Attack" action.
can you use vital strike for the attack that follows the feint action used with improved feint?
Rule of thumb for Vital Strike: If you have to ask, the answer is probably no.
messy: Improved Feint takes a move action, Vital Strike takes a standard. So, yes.
Yeah, sorry in my rush I didn't think that one out, but yes taking a standard attack after an improved feint is fine to use vital strike with.
Could you use it in conjunction with the attack you get at the end of a charge?
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I think Jiggy was teaching a man to fish and all that.
After moving, you may make a single melee attack...
When you use the attack action, you can make one attack at your highest base attack bonus that deals additional damage...
The charge action for an attack, as above, says you make a single melee attack. Vital strike only says when you use the attack action, not when you use a standard action to attack. And as far as I can tell, since it only asks for the attack action, isn't the single attack as part of a charge an attack action?
rather than sort through 18,034 matches (seriously) to the search "vital strike," i'd rather start another thread. :-)
which other feats is vital strike compatible with? power attack? combat expertise? improved feint? whirlwind attack?
is there a rule of thumb for making this clear?
Vital Strike requires that you take an Attack action, and basically modifies how Attack actions work. The Attack action is not the same thing as making a melee attack, although it can be a type of melee attack if you use it to attack with a melee weapon. So the rule of thumb is Vital Strike only functions when taking a specific type of action called the Attack action.
Power Attack & Combat Expertise modify all melee attacks that you make from the beginning of your round until the start of your next round, and require no action to activate, so you would still be able to take the Attack action and Vital Strike with them. Improved Feint requires a move action to use, but simply specifies your next attack, so an Attack Action and Vital Strike would be able to benefit from it. Whirlwind Attack modifies the Full-attack action; because Vital Strike only works with Attack actions and not Full-attack actions, it would not modify Whirlwind Attack.
Along similar lines, Cleave requires that you take a standard action to make a melee attack, which is a type of melee attack but is not the Attack action. For an example of something that does work with Vital Strike - the Overhand Chop ability of a two-handed fighter applies when the fighter makes a single attack (with either the attack action or a charge), so it would apply when using the Attack action and Vital Strike.
A vital strike requires its own action so if the other ability also uses its own action such as a charge, or spring attack, then you can not use vital strike.
Something such as power attack that is just an option, that does not need an action to activate can be used with vital strike.
After moving, you may make a single melee attack...When you use the attack action, you can make one attack at your highest base attack bonus that deals additional damage...The charge action for an attack, as above, says you make a single melee attack. Vital strike only says when you use the attack action, not when you use a standard action to attack. And as far as I can tell, since it only asks for the attack action, isn't the single attack as part of a charge an attack action?
The "attack action" is a specifically-defined standard action in the Combat section of the CRB. It does not refer to just any old attack you make.
After moving, you may make a single melee attack...When you use the attack action, you can make one attack at your highest base attack bonus that deals additional damage...The charge action for an attack, as above, says you make a single melee attack. Vital strike only says when you use the attack action, not when you use a standard action to attack. And as far as I can tell, since it only asks for the attack action, isn't the single attack as part of a charge an attack action?
No, charge is a full round action. It grants a single attack at the end of the movement part, but it is part of the overall full round action to charge.
After moving, you may make a single melee attack...When you use the attack action, you can make one attack at your highest base attack bonus that deals additional damage...The charge action for an attack, as above, says you make a single melee attack. Vital strike only says when you use the attack action, not when you use a standard action to attack. And as far as I can tell, since it only asks for the attack action, isn't the single attack as part of a charge an attack action?
This may help, from the FAQ for the CRB:
Vital Strike: Can I use this with Spring Attack, or on a charge?
No. Vital Strike can only be used as part of an attack action, which is a specific kind of standard action. Spring Attack is a special kind of full-round action that includes the ability to make one melee attack, not one attack action. Charging uses similar language and can also not be used in combination with Vital Strike.
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Vital strike only says when you use the attack action, not when you use a standard action to attack.
They are the same thing.
Most of the common actions characters take, aside from movement, fall into the realm of standard actions.
ATTACK
Making an attack is a standard action.
^ That one.
The "attack action" is the standard action named "Attack" in the list of standard actions in the Combat chapter.
The attack action is one way to make an attack. The charge action is another. The full-attack action is yet another. But just because they all let you make an attack doesn't make them all the attack action. The attack action is a standard action that is one of the means to get an attack.
After moving, you may make a single melee attack...When you use the attack action, you can make one attack at your highest base attack bonus that deals additional damage...The charge action for an attack, as above, says you make a single melee attack. Vital strike only says when you use the attack action, not when you use a standard action to attack. And as far as I can tell, since it only asks for the attack action, isn't the single attack as part of a charge an attack action?
The attack action. Specific, singular. Not an attack action. And that means it refers to the standard action called "Attack".
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Yep, the Attack Action is a specific action in the game, it's not a descriptive action. Always has been, but it's not explained as clearly as it should be (as evidenced by the numerous threads over the years on this topic).
If it says something along the lines of "If you take the attack action", "When using the attack action", "by taking an attack action", then you can add Vital Strike to it, because using the Attack Action is what causes Vital Strike to activate.
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The Sunder thread was due to ambiguity in the Sunder rules themselves. It mistakenly said that it could be made "as part of an attack action in place of a melee attack", when the "attack action" bit shouldn't have been said. FAQ
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Design Manager
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Vital Strike works with Cleave...badly...
check out the feat All-Consuming Swing.
Except it doesn't, because Cleave is called out in the feat as its own standard action, not an attack action.
**EDIT** Also, that feat doesn't appear to exist anywhere. Just checked the Paizo PRD and the d20pfsrd sites, no hits on either.
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Vital Strike works with Cleave...badly...
check out the feat All-Consuming Swing.
Except it doesn't, because Cleave is called out in the feat as its own standard action, not an attack action.
**EDIT** Also, that feat doesn't appear to exist anywhere. Just checked the Paizo PRD and the d20pfsrd sites, no hits on either.
Here it is: The Harrow Handbook.
In this case, yes Vital Strike can be used with Cleave because there is a feat that specifically states that it can be done.
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Design Manager
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Vital Strike works with Cleave...badly...
check out the feat All-Consuming Swing.
Except it doesn't, because Cleave is called out in the feat as its own standard action, not an attack action.
**EDIT** Also, that feat doesn't appear to exist anywhere. Just checked the Paizo PRD and the d20pfsrd sites, no hits on either.
Here it is: The Harrow Handbook.
In this case, yes Vital Strike can be used with Cleave because there is a feat that specifically states that it can be done.
Wow, that is a brutally expensive feat for that ability.
Ok. I'd seen so many threads that said 'how's the math on my charging cavalier?',that people didn't say anything was wrong with the fact that vital strike and its better forms were added into the math, I thought it was ok.
Well.......
It's complicated, after a recent FAQ.
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Design Manager
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Ok. I'd seen so many threads that said 'how's the math on my charging cavalier?',that people didn't say anything was wrong with the fact that vital strike and its better forms were added into the math, I thought it was ok.
That was changed fairly recently via FAQ. And even then, it wasn't that Charge and Vital Strike worked, it was that the separation of action economy between mount and rider had the mount charging and the rider still retaining his complement of actions. Now, both have to spend a charge action.
If it says something along the lines of "If you take the attack action", "When using the attack action", "by taking an attack action", then you can add Vital Strike to it, because using the Attack Action is what causes Vital Strike to activate.
so since flurry of blows is "a full-attack action," vital strike doesn't work with it, correct?
on the other hand, two-weapon fighting uses no language at all about what type of action it is. so does vital strike work with two-weapon fighting?
what about multiple natural attacks? do they work with vital strike?
I will excuse myself, but Vital Strike is quite bad as feat. Unless you have some character who can't full attack (gunner without being a Gunslinger, for example), it's not really good. For that, I simply decided to make it applicable everytime you only attack one time per round (Charge, spring attack, etc...).
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Two Weapon fighting is a Full Attack action. EoS.
The majority of the time to get more than a single attack will require a full attack action. Any other time that alows you to get multiple attacks as a standard action is a standard action and not applicable to use with VS.
Vital Strike works with Greater Weapon of the Chosen.