Why is it so good?


Rise of the Runelords

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Ok so every time I see a "what AP is best AP" thread the general consensus tends to lean toward RotRL being the all around best. But the reasoning I always get is "because it's just awesome" unfortunately for me I haven't had the time or the energy to run it myself and have even gone as far as to offer to BUY all the materials needed for any DM willing to run it for me but to no avail.

So I figure I'll go right to the source. What about in rise of the run lords that makes it so good ?


I think it's because it sticks to the basics... The classics...

Goblins, Ogres, Giants; Villages, Dungeons, Forts; EPIC battles at the end. It's what we were used to and thus easier to assimilate (as a DM).

I truly had fun DMing it.

Ultradan


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Epic story:

Spoiler:

A stone giant is born with deformities that mark him as a sorcerer - his power doesn't show however and he turns to books and becomes a wizard - this is a taboo in stone giant culture - and he hides the fact pretending to be a sorcerer - his wife finds out and he kills her - causing him to be banished. He wanders the land and finds an ancient city hidden by a magical barrier for 10,000 years - inside he finds a wizard in stasis and wakes him.

Waking the wizard ignites old magic that had lain dormant and forgotten about - a series of rune wells that focused the magic and power of the cabal of wizards that controlled them - one of these is buried under the town of sandpoint - it's focus is tied to wrath - and it has a demonic caretaker that is immortal - however she has gone slightly insane of the 10,000 years of being stuck in the same place - she starts to make plans for the return of the wizard.

At this time a young girl - a child born with an angelic parent, and orphaned - is being almost tortured by the local town - she finds a boy who likes her and they go to an old smuggler tunnel to make out - and she gets pregnant. The boy doesn't want anything to do with her after this - and she is filled with shame and hatred - because the tunnel was too close to the now active runewell - she miscarries as the child was warped by the magical energy - she has a fight with her father and in wrath (fuelled by the well) she kills him - and then burns the chruch she was living in - the town assumes she died in the flames.

She goes to the tunnel again to hide - and is met by the caretaker of the fountain - who takes her in and starts a plan to take revenge on the town that was harsh to her - using the local goblin tribes as a pawn.

Back at the wizard's place - the stone giant is made a minion and told to go and find souls to feed the wizards device that will allow him to come back to his full power - the wizard expected his nation to be ready for this effort - and instead he is now frustrated to wait on others. He also sends out some of his other faithful minions to feed greedy souls to his effort.

The stone giant goes home with much more power - takes over his tribe and starts to unite the giant tribes under a single banner - feeding the greed from conquest into souls for his master.

Twin sisters go to human settlements and start plans to feed greedy souls to their master the old fashioned way - murder and trickery.

In Magnimar one of the sisters takes over a cult of nogorber - and has them start focusing on greedy victims.

In Turtleback Ferry - the other sister starts a gambling den.

The take over some ogre clans and start them working on destroying the damn to turtleback ferry - they also make plans to march on the local garrison Fort Rannick.

The young girl takes over a local goblin tribe and starts getting ready for an assault on the town she grew up in.

The Heroes:

Stop the goblin raid - track the source - take out the local tribe and the young girl turned to evil.

After this they find the source of the magical power under the town and kill it's guardian.

Asked to investigate murders by the local sheriff (impressed by how they handled the goblins) they find a link to the murders that leads back to the cult in magnimar - there they find one of the twin sisters and kill her - with a note from her twin taunting her for the lack of success.

Heading now to turtleback ferry they find the fort overrun - and save it - only to find plans to flood the area with the dam - they stop it's destruction and manage to release some pressure on the now weakened dam - and then find the source of the ogres and put and end to them.

They make it back to Sandpoint to stop a raid against the city by the giants (looking for the runewell and other things under the city) - and follow this back to a giant stronghold - where they face down the wizard and kill him. Here they find a library that outlines much of the past civilization and clues to where they can find a place called a 'runeforge' to make weapons that should help them kill the wizard behind it all.

Going to another realm they fight through a place lost to time full of minions of the ancient civilization who are at full power - eventually creating weapons tuned to kill the Runelord who they know they must fight.

They track down the lost city of the Runelord and find it's now awake and full of dangerous minions the wizard has been drawing to himself. They fight their way to the very edge of his prison - and then the Runelord himself - now at full power thanks to the numbers of giants they slew along the way - all dedicated to powering his return.


Ultradan wrote:

I think it's because it sticks to the basics... The classics...

Goblins, Ogres, Giants; Villages, Dungeons, Forts; EPIC battles at the end. It's what we were used to and thus easier to assimilate (as a DM).

I truly had fun DMing it.

Ultradan

That's kinda what I figured.

Silver Crusade

It’s challenging (in other words it is known to kill players who are careless) but not so challenging that it requires a lot of optimizing on the part of the players.

It has a really good story line that is very classic fantasy with a few twists that make it a little fresh and new without breaking the mold.

It’s well written and is cohesive (a problem some of the other APs have is that they are not as cohesive and aren’t always easy to see how they connect to one another from the point of view of the players).

It is a good and strong introduction to playing in the Inner Sea setting for future games.


Without resorting to spoilers it has all the classic D&D elements - dungeons, dragons, undead, wizards, monsters, wilderness adventure, urban adventures, etc. in a well organized, coherently interconnected set of adventures. It's why most of us started playing the game in the first place. Your tastes may have changed to horror, or steampunk or sandbox or any other more narrow genre flavors but this is probably where you were when the game first appealed to you. And for most us it still does.

Broadest appeal themes + well done = one of the best AP's.


I agree with everyone. I also think it is because it is written so well that as a GM you can run it without changing anything, or you customize it with whatever you want to make it better for your players. So if you are a first time GM, your players get a solid experience, even if your skills are a little shaky, and if you are experienced, your players get a customized adventure, full of everything they have ever wanted to kill.


Ckorik wrote:

Epic story:

** spoiler omitted **...

Congratulations on managing to create an accurate summary of the AP, but without spoiling a number of relevant details. I'm impressed! :)

Sovereign Court

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I also think that Sandpoint is a big deal here: so many players and GMs love Sandpoint.


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GeraintElberion wrote:
I also think that Sandpoint is a big deal here: so many players and GMs love Sandpoint.

Thank you.

What's missing here is, "The NPCs. Oh, Lord, the NPCs."

Both Serpent's Skull and Wrath of the Righteous try to force NPCs down the players' throats and do a ham-handed job of it. Other APs (Kingmaker) have few NPCs of note at all. Only Curse of the Crimson Throne rivals Rise of the Runelords in the depth and breadth of available NPC interactions.

Rise of the Runelords simply says, "Here are the major players in your region. Interact with them as you will."

You can like the NPCs. You can hate them. You can make love to them or you can kill them. It doesn't change the overall story. But the players get a deep down, deep-seated feeling of "home".

My players gave me brief backgrounds and I wrote up a massive amount of fluff for them to explain how they happened to arrive in Sandpoint.

Yet every PC now considers Sandpoint his or her "home", or at least "home away from home". Every PC would die to defend Sandpoint.

THAT'S what's so special about this AP. As others have said, it's of epic proportions and uses all the "classic" bad guys. Not only that, but every major bad guy has a compelling back story that you can reveal in bits and pieces to the players, making the PCs sympathize with the bad guys even as they're exterminating them.
But even more than that, the NPCs are visceral, real, and worth saving.

THEY'RE what's worth saving, worth fighting for, and what makes RotRL special.


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NobodysHome wrote:
...amazing summary...

Um, what he said.

Seriously, this is my favorite adventure series, ever. You can't go wrong with Runelords!


Let's also not forget, being the first Pathfinder AP, it also has the most support; both official and from fans.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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GeraintElberion wrote:
I also think that Sandpoint is a big deal here: so many players and GMs love Sandpoint.

Aww! Yay! :)

Silver Crusade

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The Hagfish. Really, it's all about the Hagfish.

Liberty's Edge

Fromper wrote:
The Hagfish. Really, it's all about the Hagfish.

Garunteed to catch a sucker every time.

Silver Crusade

HangarFlying wrote:
Fromper wrote:
The Hagfish. Really, it's all about the Hagfish.
Garunteed to catch a sucker every time.

Our group has a ranger who has tried it over 20 times so far. I'm sure he'll actually succeed eventually.

Liberty's Edge

Fromper wrote:
HangarFlying wrote:
Fromper wrote:
The Hagfish. Really, it's all about the Hagfish.
Garunteed to catch a sucker every time.
Our group has a ranger who has tried it over 20 times so far. I'm sure he'll actually succeed eventually.

My problem is that I keep forgetting where the darned save DC is listed.


NobodysHome wrote:
Not only that, but every major bad guy has a compelling back story that you can reveal in bits and pieces to the players, making the PCs sympathize with the bad guys even as they're exterminating them.

I remember reading a certain diary and just feeling like a complete ass for having killed that character.

I'm still debating bloodless yet horrifying punishment for someone in her backstory, assuming my GM lets me get away with it. Or ever preps the next adventure so we can return to town where I can consider doing it.


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Poldaran wrote:
NobodysHome wrote:
Not only that, but every major bad guy has a compelling back story that you can reveal in bits and pieces to the players, making the PCs sympathize with the bad guys even as they're exterminating them.

I remember reading a certain diary and just feeling like a complete ass for having killed that character.

I'm still debating bloodless yet horrifying punishment for someone in her backstory, assuming my GM lets me get away with it. Or ever preps the next adventure so we can return to town where I can consider doing it.

The very first "tears around the table" moment in our campaign was when she fell unconscious and our drow(!!) paladin of Sarenrae cradled her in her arms and made a beautiful speech about how, if it hadn't been for HER adoptive father and the teachings of Sarenrae, it would most likely have been her in that position. Then cleanly executed her. There wasn't a dry eye in the room.

And that was for a bad guy!


What makes Runelords so awesome? First, it had a fantastic storyline (even with the first book of the AP being... not exactly related to the rest). Second, it had a great setting that truly came to life. But perhaps the most important element is the fan-crafted additions that help new GMs bring Sandpoint and other aspects to life.

Heck, this is part of what is making Reign of Winter stand out more - you have fan-created elements that other GMs can use (like the fan-maps) that are just too much fun not to use. The fanbase is probably the most important part of a successful campaign. Runelords has that in spades.

Silver Crusade

HangarFlying wrote:
Fromper wrote:
HangarFlying wrote:
Fromper wrote:
The Hagfish. Really, it's all about the Hagfish.
Garunteed to catch a sucker every time.
Our group has a ranger who has tried it over 20 times so far. I'm sure he'll actually succeed eventually.
My problem is that I keep forgetting where the darned save DC is listed.

It's not. You have to invent your own.

I've been going with a suggestion I read here on the forums. He has to make two saves - first a Will save to get past the awful smell, then a Fort save to keep it down. I wanted it to be hard, but not impossible, so I think I've been doing DC 15 for both.


I'm going to go against the grain and say I'm not that impressed by Rise of Runelords. Many people give it high praise which is why I purchased and started GMing it to my group. At this point we're almost at the end of book 2 and have been playing for a year.

As written I find much of the story generic, combat simplistic, fights inconsistent, connective story line disjointed, twists predictable and as a whole I'm actually pretty disappointed as a whole, if I was to start again I actually wouldn't run this path again. Right now I'm going through and heavily rewriting fights, missions and npc use ~ to me a good adventure path shouldn't need this sort of rebuilding.

Having played portions of Shattered Star and Crimson Throne I compare them to Rise of Runelords.
Shattered Star starts out with an obvious goal, obvious progression and a nice balance of familiar territory while exploring the world.
Crimson Throne has strong themes built through each chapter and focuses it's chapters in a way where each book feels like you're looking at the same world but from a different perspective and they all feel like they belong together in a big adventure. Further more Crimson Throne uses a card system where players can draw a card and draw upon it's power constantly or instantly to drastically change how the their fate plays.

Rise of Runelords introduces enemies one at a time with little introduction and magically expects players to care when they kill them. The chapters connect to each other through letters of exposition and the twist every single time is that the previous boss, wasn't the big boss! To me the each of the books feel separated rather than a part of a whole and players will probably wonder "why are we doing this?".

There are some plus sides though, Sandpoint *is* a fun starting point for any campaign and the characters are easy to build with. Support for the campaign is also good as there's plenty of player built material. As a whole the adventure path is pretty easy and gives a ridiculous amount of treasure to players.

My overall suspicion is through it's many balancing flaws, *players* like Rise of Runelords because it makes them feel really powerful. At the end of the day Rise of Runelords offers an straight forward experience that will be palpable to a casual crowd and not the hardcore.


Deadalready wrote:
My overall suspicion is through it's many balancing flaws, *players* like Rise of Runelords because it makes them feel really powerful. At the end of the day Rise of Runelords offers an straight forward experience that will be palpable to a casual crowd and not the hardcore.

You made some excellent points until you insulted anyone who likes the AP as "casual".

Different people, different tastes. Calling people who like something you don't "casual" gamers because they obviously don't understand "real" gaming is pretty darned condescending.


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Well, that depends on the definition of "casual" really. I mean, how many of us are paid to play and run roleplaying games? Sounds to me like most of us are casuals. ;)


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
NobodysHome wrote:
Deadalready wrote:
My overall suspicion is through it's many balancing flaws, *players* like Rise of Runelords because it makes them feel really powerful. At the end of the day Rise of Runelords offers an straight forward experience that will be palpable to a casual crowd and not the hardcore.

You made some excellent points until you insulted anyone who likes the AP as "casual".

Different people, different tastes. Calling people who like something you don't "casual" gamers because they obviously don't understand "real" gaming is pretty darned condescending.

Tangent101 wrote:
Well, that depends on the definition of "casual" really. I mean, how many of us are paid to play and run roleplaying games? Sounds to me like most of us are casuals. ;)

Yeah, I have to agree with Tangent here. My interpretation of Deadalready's statement is that basically what he's saying is 'all the Players/Characters have to do is 'step up, be heroes, don't be stupid'.'

Compare to Kingmaker, where, unless you go with the 'Kingdom in the Background' option, the PC's have to do all that, and juggle being effective rulers with being Adventurers, two full time jobs, particularly in the middle levels when the Kingdom is still in 'start up'.


Tangent101 wrote:
Well, that depends on the definition of "casual" really. I mean, how many of us are paid to play and run roleplaying games? Sounds to me like most of us are casuals. ;)

Most of us are amateurs. Not all amateurs are casual.

Not that I think "casual" is particularly useful for this. I'm pretty serious about my gaming, but I'm more interested in the roleplaying part than the "hardcore" build/tactical/strategy part. Does that make me "casual"?

In another sense, I'm definitely a casual gamer. Hell, I barely reach "business casual" on a dress up day. :)


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Tangent101 wrote:
Well, that depends on the definition of "casual" really. I mean, how many of us are paid to play and run roleplaying games? Sounds to me like most of us are casuals. ;)

You know, I can't argue with that one.

It's admittedly a sore spot for me, since even when AD&D came out in '78 and I'd been playing for 2 years already, everyone called our gaming group "noobs" because we didn't like the revised rules.

Nearly 40 years later, with two members of our foursome in the "basic 3-book box" veterans' group, one of whom has now GM'ed official games at conventions for 30+ years now, and we get bristly when we're referred to as "noobs" or "casual gamers". 3+ sessions a week doesn't qualify us as "hardcore"?!?!? C'mon, man!


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dude you've been gaming since i was born! Nice! Your avatar makes you look younger:)


Huh. You mean it had just come out when I first played it? Cool! I hadn't realized that! (I was either 8 or 9 when I first played it. Probably 8 as it was before becoming a Boy Scout.)

My point about "casual" isn't to be insulting. I was in fact being tongue-in-cheek about "professional" vs. "amateur" (as it were). We're hobbyists here enjoying the game. Outside of the crew who does playtesting and game design for a living, I doubt most people could be considered a professional gamer.

I remember back when I'd run a 6-8 hour game every weekend. Now I'm lucky to have two separate games once a month. Heh, how the mighty have fallen. ^^;;


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Yeah, we were fortunate in that a friend's dad was an avid gamer, and bought anything he saw that was "new and different". D&D fit the bill, and he started GM'ing his kids as soon as it was generally available (1974). We played a bit from 1974-1975, but since he was the *only* GM and he definitely played "D&D Lite" with us, I'd say we didn't "really" start playing until 1976 when we got our own 3-book set and some of us started GM'ing.

1978 saw the release of both AD&D and Runequest. Given a choice, we *immediately* switched to Runequest while virtually everyone else chose AD&D. I think that's probably why I'm so bristly about the whole thing. (The years themselves tell you why I'm so crotchety.)

So we did at-least-weekly Runequest from 1978-1991. That's a lotta gaming.

Gamers: Dorkness Rising kindled my kids' interest in D&D in 2011, so in 2012 we bought D&D 4.0 and several modules, in spite of the warnings from the game store clerks that, "It sucks." It took all of two sessions to decide that the clerks were right, and we switched to Pathfinder.

We've never looked back. Not a perfect system, but a d**ned good one!


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LOL. I don't dare edit after two people have favorited me, so I just thought I'd mention that I *tried* to get the kids interested in Runequest for forever (2010-2012), even generating their own campaign for them, but after the movie they said, "No, Dad! We want to play D&D! Not Runequest!"

Such an awesome movie...


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NobodysHome wrote:
Poldaran wrote:
NobodysHome wrote:
Not only that, but every major bad guy has a compelling back story that you can reveal in bits and pieces to the players, making the PCs sympathize with the bad guys even as they're exterminating them.

I remember reading a certain diary and just feeling like a complete ass for having killed that character.

I'm still debating bloodless yet horrifying punishment for someone in her backstory, assuming my GM lets me get away with it. Or ever preps the next adventure so we can return to town where I can consider doing it.

The very first "tears around the table" moment in our campaign was when she fell unconscious and our drow(!!) paladin of Sarenrae cradled her in her arms and made a beautiful speech about how, if it hadn't been for HER adoptive father and the teachings of Sarenrae, it would most likely have been her in that position. Then cleanly executed her. There wasn't a dry eye in the room.

And that was for a bad guy!

That makes me wish we had found out more about her before killing her. You just made me flash back to reading Summer Knight.

Spoiler:
“Wait. You don't understand. I just wanted it to stop. Wanted the hurting to stop."
I smoothed a bloodied lock of hair from her eyes and felt very tired as I said, "The only people who never hurt are dead."
The light died out of her eyes, her breath slowing. She whispered, barely audible, "I don't understand."
I answered, "I don't either."
A tear slid from her eye and mixed with the blood.
Then she died.”

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Nualia's story is definitely tragic. I'm not sure what's worse: the majority of the tables that ended up killing her, the minority of tables that got TPKed against her (thus dooming Sandpoint), or the very tiny minority of tables that subdued her and took her back to town to be incarcerated in Habe's Sanatorium for her own good. There's never really a good outcome for Nualia, no matter what happens to her.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Misroi wrote:
Nualia's story is definitely tragic. I'm not sure what's worse: the majority of the tables that ended up killing her, the minority of tables that got TPKed against her (thus dooming Sandpoint), or the very tiny minority of tables that subdued her and took her back to town to be incarcerated in Habe's Sanatorium for her own good. There's never really a good outcome for Nualia, no matter what happens to her.

Nualia's one of my favorite NPCs I've ever designed, and it does the old heart good to see she's properly making PCs reconsider the implications of the standard "kill the baddie take their stuff" approach. There's actually a fair amount of symbolism and commentary going on in her character, even beyond the obvious. On one level, she's about how people can idolize something so much that they destroy the thing they idolize. On another it's about how male-dominated societies and their assumptions can cause damage to their societies in ways they don't expect. A little forgiveness and empathy could have gone a long way for Sandpoint back when Nualia was in town...

Poor thing!

I've been looking for ways to bring her back and continue her story, in fact, in a way that doesn't derail the likely outcome in Runelords. I THINK I've figured it out... but it's not ready for "prime time" yet!


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I rather feel sorry that my group nuked her seconds (literally) after she Descended into being a Half-Fiend. But then, her celestial half emerged from the Runewell afterward (as a four-year-old girl) and the group ended up paying to have an orphanage built so they could ensure she was cared for (and to thumb their noses at the Scarnettis - seems they bought land that is within sight of Scarnetti Manor to build the orphanage).


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Misroi wrote:
Nualia's story is definitely tragic. I'm not sure what's worse: the majority of the tables that ended up killing her, the minority of tables that got TPKed against her (thus dooming Sandpoint), or the very tiny minority of tables that subdued her and took her back to town to be incarcerated in Habe's Sanatorium for her own good. There's never really a good outcome for Nualia, no matter what happens to her.

In my pbem game, our paladin of Sarenrae, who had a backstory as being a childhood friend of Nualia, did a kick-ass job of roleplaying trying to redeem her... and it worked. Though one player appears to have bailed on the campaign because he wanted her to be more hardcore Evil-evil, and the other characters aren't really all that happy about leaving her at Windsong Abbey to repent without a heavily-armed guard, the paladin's player told me it was his favorite character moment/event ever, which I think is all worth it. So, SOMEtimes there's a good outcome for Nualia. :)

After the party spent a month babysitting Nualia at Windsong, though, I'm having winter be slow in arriving because a barren cornfield is not nearly as iconic a battleground.

In my face-to-face game, the party slaughtered Nualia without a second glance. T_T I foresee the same thing from my second pbem group. (Yes, I run Runelords a LOT!)


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

The NPCs are indeed awesome. My character was lured down into the cellar in the first adventure, and I had a devil of a time convincing the lurer that I was... cursed, shall we say. The lurer offered to help lift my curse. Good times.


NobodysHome wrote:
Deadalready wrote:
My overall suspicion is through it's many balancing flaws, *players* like Rise of Runelords because it makes them feel really powerful. At the end of the day Rise of Runelords offers an straight forward experience that will be palpable to a casual crowd and not the hardcore.

You made some excellent points until you insulted anyone who likes the AP as "casual".

Different people, different tastes. Calling people who like something you don't "casual" gamers because they obviously don't understand "real" gaming is pretty darned condescending.

My personal definition of casual vs hardcore:

Casual: you play and you win.
Hardcore: play hard and you *might* win.

I don't consider one better than the other, they cater to different crowds.

This distinction could easily change a person's choice in purchasing or playing this AP. While I didn't intend to insult anyone, as a person who likes hard fights + difficult choices, I don't feel like RotRL caters to me. On the other hand these reasons might be the exact criteria someone would love to play this AP.


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Deadalready wrote:
NobodysHome wrote:
Deadalready wrote:
My overall suspicion is through it's many balancing flaws, *players* like Rise of Runelords because it makes them feel really powerful. At the end of the day Rise of Runelords offers an straight forward experience that will be palpable to a casual crowd and not the hardcore.

You made some excellent points until you insulted anyone who likes the AP as "casual".

Different people, different tastes. Calling people who like something you don't "casual" gamers because they obviously don't understand "real" gaming is pretty darned condescending.

My personal definition of casual vs hardcore:

Casual: you play and you win.
Hardcore: play hard and you *might* win.

I don't consider one better than the other, they cater to different crowds.

This distinction could easily change a person's choice in purchasing or playing this AP. While I didn't intend to insult anyone, as a person who likes hard fights + difficult choices, I don't feel like RotRL caters to me. On the other hand these reasons might be the exact criteria someone would love to play this AP.

We understood your usage, but simply objected to the terminology.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Rotolutundro wrote:
Misroi wrote:
Nualia's story is definitely tragic. I'm not sure what's worse: the majority of the tables that ended up killing her, the minority of tables that got TPKed against her (thus dooming Sandpoint), or the very tiny minority of tables that subdued her and took her back to town to be incarcerated in Habe's Sanatorium for her own good. There's never really a good outcome for Nualia, no matter what happens to her.

In my pbem game, our paladin of Sarenrae, who had a backstory as being a childhood friend of Nualia, did a kick-ass job of roleplaying trying to redeem her... and it worked. Though one player appears to have bailed on the campaign because he wanted her to be more hardcore Evil-evil, and the other characters aren't really all that happy about leaving her at Windsong Abbey to repent without a heavily-armed guard, the paladin's player told me it was his favorite character moment/event ever, which I think is all worth it. So, SOMEtimes there's a good outcome for Nualia. :)

Yay! Just this once, everyone lives!

Liberty's Edge

My f2f group killed her, though any sympathy they might have had was tempered by the fact that she was on the verge of getting a TPK. So the group was more relieved that they were still alive, and any potential redeemable value was overshadowed by the fact that she was very lethal.

I'm running another group via Fantasy Grounds. Though they haven't progressed that far, one player is the "shoot first, ask later" types, so I don't suspect there will be much attempt to bring her back. We'll see.

Silver Crusade

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My group just killed her. They didn't find out her back story until afterward, and even then, they were like "Well, boo hoo. You had a rough childhood. That doesn't justify murder!" No sympathy in this group.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Fromper wrote:
My group just killed her. They didn't find out her back story until afterward, and even then, they were like "Well, boo hoo. You had a rough childhood. That doesn't justify murder!" No sympathy in this group.

Hee. Irony is fun. ;-)

Silver Crusade

James Jacobs wrote:
Fromper wrote:
My group just killed her. They didn't find out her back story until afterward, and even then, they were like "Well, boo hoo. You had a rough childhood. That doesn't justify murder!" No sympathy in this group.
Hee. Irony is fun. ;-)

Yeah, lousy bunch of murderhobos. They actually could have captured her alive, too, but she pissed them off by nearly killing them, so they went for the coup de grace.


My group had put together a good portion of her backstory (except the part about who she started worshiping) even before encountering her lover (trying to dodge spoilers here.) Their ears had perked up over details from an encounter in the Temple vicinity and they asked around the temple and talked to several people who lived in Sandpoint in the past. They had concluded she may have had a hard childhood and experienced "undue magical influence" but their initial focus was on the long lost boyfriend who they could not identify. But by the time Thistletop became the next target, any sympathy they might have had was lost and when they encountered her, it was a kill or be killed situation. After the pc's assaulted Thistletop and retreated, Nualia gathered all of her minions and any survivors in a holy place (to her.) Major battle ensues, Nualia is the last survivor and could have surrendered (as another of her allies did) but instead she lashed out with a relatively pointless maneuver. The players had a "no choice but to put down the rabid dog" attitude.


My group did capture her alive. The at-that-point CN player sneered at her backstory. (He's since started drifting toward Chaotic Good to his immense horror, though he still keeps donating to charity and doing decent things.) I'm not sure though if they'd have locked her in a sanitarium or just sent her to Magnimar to have her 'ead lopped off. Moot point, I had Ripnugget (whom the group let live) pull a rescue. Ripnugget died at the hands of the Sheriff but Tsuto, whatshername who should be falling out of her dress, and Ms. Murder Hobo herself escaped, to return at a later time. Heh heh heh.

No good deed goes unpunished, you know. ;) I'm still pondering what type of assassin to sic on Mr. "Oh dear lord I'm turning good, aren't I?" hired by the Scarnettis....


^aren't you guys filling this thread with spoilers for a person who is planning to buy/play the AP?

As written I found the space between learning about Nualia the first time and meeting her, was just too long and filled with too much other stuff. By the time my party met her they didn't remember or care about her. This goes back to my biggest gripe about the way chapters work out, there's big bosses in each chapter but they spend their lives sitting around rather than making living hell for players.


Deadalready wrote:

^aren't you guys filling this thread with spoilers for a person who is planning to buy/play the AP?

As written I found the space between learning about Nualia the first time and meeting her, was just too long and filled with too much other stuff. By the time my party met her they didn't remember or care about her. This goes back to my biggest gripe about the way chapters work out, there's big bosses in each chapter but they spend their lives sitting around rather than making living hell for players.

You're right about the spoiler angle. We definitely went overboard in detail for anyone who is playing or has yet to play the AP.

I'm not quite there on your second point. There's always a measure of tension between having the world respond to the pc's and have the world center on the pc's. In the early chapters, the pc's are joining the show "already in progress" so events aren't oriented around the players because the primary mover/shakers don't know the players even exist. Instead they are making the world "a living hell" for other people.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Fromper wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Fromper wrote:
My group just killed her. They didn't find out her back story until afterward, and even then, they were like "Well, boo hoo. You had a rough childhood. That doesn't justify murder!" No sympathy in this group.
Hee. Irony is fun. ;-)
Yeah, lousy bunch of murderhobos. They actually could have captured her alive, too, but she pissed them off by nearly killing them, so they went for the coup de grace.

Sounds like somebody's starting to rack up some 'Wrath Points'...


This topic just happened at the right time!
We started RoTR a few months ago and now PCs are just entered Thistletop.

I was looking for inspiration to write Nualia's diary and now I know what to scribble.

One of the player (who has convinced Tsuto to surrender, so he's still alive down the glassworks where he awaits for the PCs to return) has already said he wants to do the same thing with her. I don't think Nualia is convincibile with Diplomacy, but maybe they can find other ways to save her.

We'll know tomorrow night!

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