Venture-Lieutenant, Florida—Melbourne
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I realize adding a new faction is probably the last thing we want to do, but when one looks at the shear number of nature based classes, archtypes and races it seems there is a huge void that has never been filled even when we had 10 factions. I remember spending a lot of time trying to find a good fit for my druid and never did, settling on Grand Lodge just because of its generic nature.
So while a brand new faction might be ideal, perhaps, since many of the factions are currently in a state of flux, morphing one of them into a more nature friendly one for Year 7 (laying the ground work in year 6 like you did for the year 6 factions in year 5) wouldn't be a bad idea. Currently I think Andoran might be the best fit, adding a love of nature to their love of freedom seems to be a good combination.
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I have a character who would join the nature faction if it existed, but I'm not going to cry myself to sleep if it doesn't happen.
Right now she is in Grand Lodge because she doesn't care about the politicking of any of the other factions. As a wise man once said, "If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice."
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Venture-Lieutenant, Florida—Melbourne
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I have a character who would join the nature faction if it existed, but I'm not going to cry myself to sleep if it doesn't happen.
Right now she is in Grand Lodge because she doesn't care about the politicking of any of the other factions. As a wise man once said, "If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice."
+1 for quoting Geddy Lee.
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It's a tricky prospect for what they want to accomplish, as you (Trollbill) observe that some would want to live in harmony and others might be more interested in uprooting civilization to make space for trees. It's a classic druidic dilemma in the gaming world, but it also makes it a little difficult to build unified faction goals.
On the other hand, it makes it easy to build faction goals thanks to there being very important choices built in.
I will say that this isn't the first time that a nature faction concept has been on my radar, and there are some plots and schemes in my head about how one faction could adopt a more nature-y focus if we chose to go in that direction.
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I like this idea. I don't have any characters that would benefit too much, but I think it would fit better than ANOTHER faction who's main benefit is "Lie so that we become stronger than those we lie to!"
I'm looking at you Sczarni, Taldor, and Qadira!
Also, we need to have an Ocean-Based scenario (or whole season) soon. Have you seen how many Archetypes and other little tidbits have been added specifically benefiting characters who operate in Aquatic environments?
Plus, maybe they'll temporarily legalize Merfolk and Gillmen. LEGALIZE THEM!
Sorry for changing the subject, but yeah, nature faction FTW.
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I will say that this isn't the first time that a nature faction concept has been on my radar, and there are some plots and schemes in my head about how one faction could adopt a more nature-y focus if we chose to go in that direction.
It could be a good opportunity to re-introduce the Cult of Nature's Cataclysm as an antagonist.
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Druids of that forest between Andoran and Taldor. It would be led by a Druid. It's purpose would be to prevent the society from misusing fey/druidic items and they feel they can do this better from within the tent so to speak. Also they'd keep an eye on Taldor and Andoran.
Founding npcs first lines would be "You put WHAT on display in the Blackros Museum!"
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Yeah, I have a new druid PC that I've been debating the faction for, and may end up Grand Lodge by default, since nothing else really fits.
Of course, if you do use Kerney's idea of the Vurduran Forest between Andoran and Taldor as a starting point for a nature based faction, my Taldan Baron is a gnome from that forest, so he might consider changing factions now that his current faction is no longer specifically tied to the nation of Taldor (as long as he can keep the Baron title).
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I guess my question is, "why would a nature faction even be in the Society?" Unless as Flutter says, they see the Society as an environmental threat and are working to contain that... but really, there must be other, bigger threats to deal with instead (like the Lumber Consortium). Factions still need a reason to exist IN the Society, which is the background of the campaign.
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I guess my question is, "why would a nature faction even be in the Society?" Unless as Flutter says, they see the Society as an environmental threat and are working to contain that... but really, there must be other, bigger threats to deal with instead (like the Lumber Consortium). Factions still need a reason to exist IN the Society, which is the background of the campaign.
I'd say the same reason as the Silver Crusade. The Silver Crusade wants to use the Society's resources to do good in the world. So would a nature faction. It's just that the Silver Crusade sees doing good as protecting innocent people, while the nature faction sees doing good as protecting nature.
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I suppose... although the Silver Crusade formed from people who were already Pathfinders and who found the existing factions didn't work for them. I guess the same could happen here. Though, is staying a member of the Society the best vehicle for "doing good" by protecting nature? Could work, I guess.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Florida—Melbourne
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Its not just Druids. It can also apply to Rangers, Barbarians, Sylvan-blooded Sorcerers, Clerics with domains such as plant, animal & storm, Thundercaller Bards, Bramble Brewer Alchemists, Old World Summoners, elves, gnomes, Shoanti or just about any character that sees itself as having a strong connection to nature.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Florida—Melbourne
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I suppose... although the Silver Crusade formed from people who were already Pathfinders and who found the existing factions didn't work for them. I guess the same could happen here. Though, is staying a member of the Society the best vehicle for "doing good" by protecting nature? Could work, I guess.
If we are talking adapting a current faction to be more nature friendly rather than a new faction, then it already has a reason for being in the society. You only now would need a reason for why it might become more nature friendly.
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Perhaps they have always been there... they are just now opening up membership to others ... (PCs can now be members). (after all, there is no reason to assume we know about ALL the factions... I remember when the Shadow Lodge did not officially exist.)I suppose... although the Silver Crusade formed from people who were already Pathfinders and who found the existing factions didn't work for them. I guess the same could happen here. Though, is staying a member of the Society the best vehicle for "doing good" by protecting nature? Could work, I guess.If we are talking adapting a current faction to be more nature friendly rather than a new faction, then it already has a reason for being in the society. You only now would need a reason for why it might become more nature friendly.
Shadow Lodge? What's the shadow lodge? That's not a faction you silly fool!
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In the end, it's an excuse for people to play druids in the game. What's the motivation for ANY druid to be a member of the Society? There's a reason most of them end up in the Grand Lodge - their values don't match any of the other factions.
There's more than a few variations on the bark hugging crowd that work very well as a pathfinder.
The scholarly approach: The society is the national geographic of golarion. If your love of nature takes a more intellectual, bookish approach you can study, catalog, and inventory behavior and specimins from around the world both in person and through reports.
The enemy of my enemy...: the aspis society is known for some pretty brutal tactics and less than sustainable hunting. No one is more likely to help you kill them than the society. Demons twist and corrupt nature and pathfinders see, to have a knack for putting sharp pointy objects through them.
Wheeeee nature!: If you like to travel and see the sights the pathfinder society will foot your bill. In return Druids are useful guides, scouts, protectors and trackers. Even getting the party TO the adventure would be worth keeping some around.
Nature red in tooth and claw: You like to fight. The ebb and flow of survival of the fittest gets your blood pumping and deepens your connection to the pulse of the primal struggle for life. Doesn't mean you don't fight smart though, and the society is one of the best places to learn how to do that.
Other interests: Just because you're a druid doesn't mean you're nothing else. A good person could very well join the silver crusade or a poisons dealer could be in the scarzni. Many real life clergy are community activists, social workers, explorers, anthropologists...
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I suppose... although the Silver Crusade formed from people who were already Pathfinders and who found the existing factions didn't work for them. I guess the same could happen here. Though, is staying a member of the Society the best vehicle for "doing good" by protecting nature? Could work, I guess.
Heh. I still have trouble reading Ollysta's intro speech in First Steps with a straight face: "We formed a new faction because the Pathfinder Society was split into too many factions." Say what?!
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In the end, it's an excuse for people to play druids in the game. What's the motivation for ANY druid to be a member of the Society? There's a reason most of them end up in the Grand Lodge - their values don't match any of the other factions.There's more than a few variations on the bark hugging crowd that work very well as a pathfinder.
The scholarly approach: The society is the national geographic of golarion. If your love of nature takes a more intellectual, bookish approach you can study, catalog, and inventory behavior and specimins from around the world both in person and through reports.
The enemy of my enemy...: the aspis society is known for some pretty brutal tactics and less than sustainable hunting. No one is more likely to help you kill them than the society. Demons twist and corrupt nature and pathfinders see, to have a knack for putting sharp pointy objects through them.
Wheeeee nature!: If you like to travel and see the sights the pathfinder society will foot your bill. In return Druids are useful guides, scouts, protectors and trackers. Even getting the party TO the adventure would be worth keeping some around.
Nature red in tooth and claw: You like to fight. The ebb and flow of survival of the fittest gets your blood pumping and deepens your connection to the pulse of the primal struggle for life. Doesn't mean you don't fight smart though, and the society is one of the best places to learn how to do that.
Other interests: Just because you're a druid doesn't mean you're nothing else. A good person could very well join the silver crusade or a poisons dealer could be in the scarzni. Many real life clergy are community activists, social workers, explorers, anthropologists...
And again, most of those don't lend themselves to any of the other factions, other than the last one. Like I said, most druids I've seen end up in the Grand Lodge, by default, much moreso than other character types. Not that they're the only tree huggers in the Society, or that there can't be some who have "other interests", as you say. Just that the default for druids seems to align itself best with the first few reasons on your list for joining the Society, none of which really match up to any faction.
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Here is Ollysta Zadrian introductory speech in First steps part one:
“Thank the light of Sarenrae you have arrived! I knew Ambrus would come through for us in the Silver Crusade. I desperately need you to bring medicine to an orphanage and let me know if the headmistress, Gilga Baltwin, is deserving of our charity. Since our quest began, the needy have clamored for our aid, and I suspect some are abusing our generosity. It may sound cruel, but there are plenty of dishonest people out in the world eager for easy gold.
“Do you know of the Silver Crusade? After discovering so many factions splintered the Society, a number of us banded together to proliferate the cause of charity and kindness using the Society’s resources. As it is said, ‘The Dawn brings new light’ and I’ve made it my life’s work to use our recent darkness to bring a new light to the world and to the Pathfinder Society.
I apologize for straying off point. Will you bring this parcel of medicine to Auntie Baltwin’s Home for Recovery in the Eastgate district?”
“After discovering so many factions splintered the Society….. I’ve made it my life’s work to use our recent darkness to bring a new light to the world and to the Pathfinder Society.”
I’m pretty sure these scenarios were put out at Gen Con 2011, They were put out at the beginning of Season 3 The Year of the Pheonix. This was just after Season 2 The Year of the Shadow Lodge.
During the Year of the Shadow Lodge the society was split into a number of factions….Shadow Lodge VS Grand Lodge and they were in direct conflict with each other. The story is a little more complicated then that.
“so many factions splintered the Society” and “our recent darkness” is referring to the Shadow Lodge vs Grand Lodge conflict which was just settled when these scenarios came out.
Kinevon I hope this helps.
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Strangely enough as a Druid I ended up in Qadira.
Despite all the other faction mission/ideals Qadira was one that advocated exploration. Now this was primarily done for Trade purposes it gave my druids a reason to travel and see the world, and if they helped out the faction with a little bit of that useless money exchange it at least kept them out of the forest.
Now with the major faction changes I am not sure. Grand Lodge still seems like a good choice but not sure how well the Exchange will work with my druids who frequently join the society to go out and see new lands and the wonders of nature, they just occasionally make a bit of money on the side.
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Here is Ollysta Zadrian introductory speech in First steps part one:
** spoiler omitted **“After discovering so many factions splintered the Society….. I’ve made it my life’s work to use our recent darkness to bring a new light to the world and to the Pathfinder Society.”
I’m pretty sure these scenarios were put out at Gen Con 2011, They were put out at the beginning of Season 3 The Year of the Pheonix. This was just after Season 2 The Year of the Shadow Lodge.
During the Year of the Shadow Lodge the society was split into a number of factions….Shadow Lodge VS Grand Lodge and they were in direct conflict with each other. The story is a little more complicated then that.
“so many factions splintered the Society” and “our recent darkness” is referring to the Shadow Lodge vs Grand Lodge conflict which was just settled when these scenarios came out.
Kinevon I hope this helps.
Myles, if you check, you'll see that I have been playing PFS since Season 0, and started GMing a couple of years later.
The problem isn't that she was talking in response to the Shadow Lodge, which was, at that point, a legal faction, but that her speech says that, in response to the Pathfinder Society being split into so many factions, we decided to start a new faction.
After discovering so many factions splintered the Society, a number of us banded together to proliferate the cause of charity and kindness using the Society’s resources.
At the time, as one of the 5 new factions, the Society moved from 5 factions and a shadow society, to 10 factions, with a rogue shadow society.
"...so many factions..." so let's found another faction. In that scenario, alone, you get introduced to the Silver Crusade leader, the Szcarni leader, the Cheliax leader, and the Osirion leader.
AT least the odds favor it being retired with the beginning of Season 6, since two of those factions are combining, and one of the others is changing names.
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You could probably argue this for a lot of classes, like a music-spreading faction for bards, for example.
Having more factions just because there's more classes would likely do more harm to the campaign than good. I had a hard time picking a faction when I first started, but unless you're a VC, dems da breaks - pick what's available.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Florida—Melbourne
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You could probably argue this for a lot of classes, like a music-spreading faction for bards, for example.
Having more factions just because there's more classes would likely do more harm to the campaign than good. I had a hard time picking a faction when I first started, but unless you're a VC, dems da breaks - pick what's available.
A. We aren't necessarily asking for a new Faction. Morphing an existing faction into one that is more nature oriented/friendly would work fine. And I am not even talking it being the Faction's major focus. As far as I can tell, none of the Factions currently even pay lip service to nature. Almost all of them are dedicated to civilization in one form or another.
B. Taldor is a perfect fit for a music-spreading character as Taldor is all about spreading culture. There are no perfect fits for nature based characters. Hence why many choose Grand Lodge because nothing fits.
C. The number of nature-based classes, races and archtypes far exceeds the number of music-based ones, so your example is not a valid comparison.
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I don't see how, without changing anything about the existing faction, they don't already fit for the most part? A few I don't really see working that much.
Andoran and Silver Crusade are kind of no-brainers. More-so Andoran for the more generic "Nature".
Cheliax: the sheer power of nature's unrestrained fury, viscousness, and natural order seems like a great place for unexplored paths of power. It's really not all that different than a lot of Cheliax's core beliefs, (and sex is natural and stuff, too).
Qadira: Not every market lies in civilized lands, and the more nation-based side of the faction is steeped in the strength of the elements and elementals. There is also the fact that aside from finding new markets, the faction is actually very interested in finding new allies, particularly ones that have not been overly tapped out or one wouldn't normally think to try to befriend.
Scarni: Not a obvious fit, but the family need all kinds, especial those that know a trick or two about the waterways or how to find safe and secret paths across the land.
Taldor: As a nation (which the faction currently still supports), the nobility of Taldor are amongst the greatest patrons of many causes. Preserving natural areas/wildlife I'm sure would be one of them. An easy in would be a character that is all about expending the empire without scorching the earth to do it. There's also the Ulfen Guard. There is also the fact that much of the nation is very rural.
I still just don't see a need to either create a new faction, or change any faction to make it more accepting to natured themed characters. They already can be just fine, especially if you read up on the faction and/or nation a bit.
Osirion: Not all Nature is about forests.
Grand Lodge, in my opinion, is a poor Faction. It serves to conflicting purposes: to be the Factionless Faction and to be a for the most part Faction itself without any actual need of existing. It can fit a nature character/theme just as easily as each and every single other themed character.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Florida—Melbourne
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I still just don't see a need to either create a new faction, or change any faction to make it more accepting to natured themed characters. They already can be just fine, especially if you read up on the faction and/or nation a bit.
If that is the case, then why have so many people on this thread stated they picked Grand Lodge for their nature based character because nothing fit?
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Not sure. Don't mean this as an insult, but maybe they didn't really look to far into the various factions? Maybe they didn't try to think of ways to fit the concept in (in a square peg into a square hole sort of way that's pretty easily doable). Maybe because of the dual nature of the Grand Lodge as the Facionless Faction?
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Venture-Lieutenant, Florida—Melbourne
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Maybe because of the dual nature of the Grand Lodge as the Facionless Faction?
Ironically, you would think if all the nature based characters joined Grand Lodge because nothing else fit, you would think that there would be internal pressure from all these nature based characters for Grand Lodge to be more nature based.
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Not really. No more than all the Clerics that joined the Grand Lodge 'cause nothing else fit would want to push for it to be the bore divine Faction, or every warrior type to try to be more martial based.
The OP, (ie you), even said that in your opinion, Andoran was the best fit. I also pointed out above a off the top of my head example(s) for each faction. I really don't see what else you want? Could you clarify?
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This is starting to get redundant.
DM Beckett, I disagree with a lot of your reasons for nature based people in some of those factions. Cheliax and Taldor especially seem like "civilization will conquer the wilds" type of countries that would drive nature-based characters away.
It's easy to come up with reasons for a warrior, priest, bard, or arcane caster could be in almost any faction. Some specific concepts won't match, especially worshipers of specific gods. But there's really no obvious motivation for druids and other very nature-based characters to join most factions. I agree with the original poster on this one.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Florida—Melbourne
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I'm not sure why a nature based faction would care to involve themselves with the society.
That is actually sort of the point. If there is no reason for a nature based faction in the society, then there is no reason for a nature based character to be in the society. Yet there are many nature based classes, races and archtypes. This is one of those cases of the Pathfinder Society in Golarion, not matching up with the Pathfinder Society in the real world. I am suggesting they make a change so that the two match better.
And, again, it doesn't need to be a new faction. I could just be an existing faction that found a reason to become more nature friendly. For example, freedom lovers and nature lovers seem to be common allies in the real world, so Andoran might actively seek out nature allies during Season 6.
In fact, doing something like this in Season 6 almost seems like a logical response to the technological threats of Season 6.
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My Ranger is Osirion, because that's where she's from (undead were her 1st favored enemy, underground [think tombs!] her 1st favored terrain), but my Druid is Grand Lodge because, as many people here have said, nothing else fit. Yes, I could have found reasons for her to be in other factions, but with how I play her, none of them made sense. The Grand Lodge seems to be a catch-all for many classes, not just nature ones, that don't fit in anywhere else based on player preface. If there was a nature based faction would my Druid join it? Most definitely! But that still wouldn't help the other classes or characters that are looking for something that doesn't currently exist (or in my Shadow Dancers case, one that did exist but no longer does).
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Venture-Lieutenant, Florida—Melbourne
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This is starting to get redundant.
DM Beckett, I disagree with a lot of your reasons for nature based people in some of those factions. Cheliax and Taldor especially seem like "civilization will conquer the wilds" type of countries that would drive nature-based characters away.
It's easy to come up with reasons for a warrior, priest, bard, or arcane caster could be in almost any faction. Some specific concepts won't match, especially worshipers of specific gods. But there's really no obvious motivation for druids and other very nature-based characters to join most factions. I agree with the original poster on this one.
As support for this I would like to point out that Silver Crusade was not one of the original 5 PFS factions and Silver Crusade does not seem to fit all that well with the idea of the Pathfinder Society in Golarion. While I was not there at the time, I would lay dollars to donuts that one of the major reasons that faction exists today is because while people could shoehorn their Paladins and other good character concepts into the existing factions, many wanted something their characters fit more naturally into. I am not seeing a lot of difference between that and Druids and natured based characters wanting something similar.