So as I'm reading it, I'm trying to figure out-does it strike like a weapon and is a melee attack? Or does it strike like a spell and use touch AC?
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I thought this as well, until I read the full text of the spell. I would like to issue this challenge, though: name me one spell that requires an attack roll that does not target touch AC. I'm not saying there aren't any because I don't really play a lot of casters, but off the top of my head I cannot think of one.Spells don't necessarily strike as touch attacks. If that were an inherent spell effect then they wouldn't bother to specify it in so many spell descriptions.
When Spiritual Weapon says it "strikes as a spell" they mean that the weapon is magical and a force effect. Since it doesn't specify that it strikes touch AC... it doesn't.
Spiritual Weapon :p
Magic StoneClenched Fist
Black Tentacles is a CMB check instead of touch.
There's no rule that expressly says that attack spells always use touch AC. That's why it's always specified in the spell when they do.
Also, from the "Aiming" section of the Magic chapter in the Core Rulebook:
You aim a ray as if using a ranged weapon, though typically you make a ranged touch attack rather than a normal ranged attack.
So they had the opportunity there to say that spell attacks are always touch attacks, and declined to do so, instead just saying that they're "typically" touch attacks.
I thought this as well, until I read the full text of the spell. I would like to issue this challenge, though: name me one spell that requires an attack roll that does not target touch AC. I'm not saying there aren't any because I don't really play a lot of casters, but off the top of my head I cannot think of one.Spells don't necessarily strike as touch attacks. If that were an inherent spell effect then they wouldn't bother to specify it in so many spell descriptions.
When Spiritual Weapon says it "strikes as a spell" they mean that the weapon is magical and a force effect. Since it doesn't specify that it strikes touch AC... it doesn't.
Spiritual Weapon :p
Magic Stone
Clenched Fist
Black Tentacles is a CMB check instead of touch.There's no rule that expressly says that attack spells always use touch AC. That's why it's always specified in the spell when they do.
Also, from the "Aiming" section of the Magic chapter in the Core Rulebook:
You aim a ray as if using a ranged weapon, though typically you make a ranged touch attack rather than a normal ranged attack.So they had the opportunity there to say that spell attacks are always touch attacks, and declined to do so, instead just saying that they're "typically" touch attacks.
Of those 3 spells though, each kind of spell states how it hits. Mage's sword doesn't.
My question still stands
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If something requires an attack roll, by default it is against the targets normal AC. You only roll against the targets touch AC when it specifically says to.
But it says it strikes as a spell, not a weapon. Doesn't that indicate touch ac, like seemingly all other spells?
As for Holy ice isn't a javelin made of magic, it's a javelin made of ice. Spiritual Weapon is far more ambiguous.
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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But it says it strikes as a spell, not a weapon. Doesn't that indicate touch ac, like seemingly all other spells?
As for Holy ice isn't a javelin made of magic, it's a javelin made of ice. Spiritual Weapon is far more ambiguous.
That which simply tends to be the case is itself not a rule. Just because lots of spells target Touch AC does not make it a rule, and therefore does not mean that anything which is some kind of magical attack defaults to Touch AC.
The rules for how attacks work in the entire game say to use normal AC unless otherwise specified, and nothing is otherwise specifying here. There's nothing ambiguous here. Patterns that you mistook for rules do not constitute ambiguity.
But it says it strikes as a spell, not a weapon. Doesn't that indicate touch ac, like seemingly all other spells?
As for Holy ice isn't a javelin made of magic, it's a javelin made of ice. Spiritual Weapon is far more ambiguous.
No. If it said it attacked touch ac, then it would indicate that it is against touch.
It if it makes an indication that it's an attack roll, but doesn't specify it's a touch attack, then it attacks vs. normal ac, just like everything else.
But it says it strikes as a spell, not a weapon. Doesn't that indicate touch ac, like seemingly all other spells?
Just because it strikes as a spell does not mean it is a touch attack. There is nothing in the rules that says "Spells are touch attacks." Yes, generally a spell that requires an attack roll is a touch attack, but not always. And spells that require a touch attack always specifically say they require a touch attack.
Spiritual weapon says nothing about requiring a touch attack, so it is a regular attack against regular AC.
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Didn't we already cover this?
There's no rule that expressly says that attack spells always use touch AC. That's why it's always specified in the spell when they do.
If something requires an attack roll, by default it is against the targets normal AC. You only roll against the targets touch AC when it specifically says to.
But it says it strikes as a spell, not a weapon. Doesn't that indicate touch ac, like seemingly all other spells?
When they say it strikes like a spell, they do on behalf of how it interacts with DR, SR, hardness and such kind of defenses.
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When they say it strikes like a spell, they do on behalf of how it interacts with DR, SR, hardness and such kind of defenses.But it says it strikes as a spell, not a weapon. Doesn't that indicate touch ac, like seemingly all other spells?
Its been 3 and a half years since the post you are replying to.