It's really not though, or at least not anymore then the GM determines how much of a benefit you get out of Power Attack. They clearly keep their non-HD dependent abilities and in the case of things like Efreets, this is absurdly powerful.I don't really have want them nerfed, but I do want Simulacrum fixed.How is it broken? Several folks from Paizo have commented on it being the GM's job to determine exactly what the copy gets.
"Clearly" to you, perhaps, but this is highly debated.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Anything can be highly debated. That doesn't mean the facts aren't clear. The mere fact that some people do not agree with something, does not make their argument convincing. The mere existence of people who do not believe we landed on the moon, does not make the fact that we did any less clear.
A somewhat elegant suggestion I've seen mentioned, but sadly can't remember by who, would be for the template to remove all SLA's that are spells that are higher leveled then half of the resulting (resulting is an incredibly important word here, like absolutely critical!) simulacrums HD. So if you made a Simulacrum of an Efreet the resulting simulacrum would have 5 HD. Half of 5 HD would be 2 (in 3.5/PF world anyway) thus any SLA's that mimic spells that are higher leveled then 2 are removed. Thus it would lose it's plane shift, wall of fire, gaseous form, permanent image and wish.
I'd also make the template take half of the targets HD and Class levels in equal portions and not permit the class levels to contribute to HD for the purpose of the above. Thus an Efreet Bard 6 would end up being a 5 HD Efreet with 3 Bard levels. But it would not have a halved HD of 4 for SLA purposes and thus pick back up Wall of Fire and Gaseous Form.
I like it. I'd also add the suggestion that Simulacrums can't use SLA ans Supernatural abilities that mimic spells with costly spell components (so no more wish factories).
Anything can be highly debated. That doesn't mean the facts aren't clear. The mere fact that some people do not agree with something, does not make their argument convincing. The mere existence of people who do not believe we landed on the moon, does not make the fact that we did any less clear.
There are people who still believe on the idea of a flat Earth. -.-'
I like it. I'd also add the suggestion that Simulacrums can't use SLA ans Supernatural abilities that mimic spells with costly spell components (so no more wish factories).A somewhat elegant suggestion I've seen mentioned, but sadly can't remember by who, would be for the template to remove all SLA's that are spells that are higher leveled then half of the resulting (resulting is an incredibly important word here, like absolutely critical!) simulacrums HD. So if you made a Simulacrum of an Efreet the resulting simulacrum would have 5 HD. Half of 5 HD would be 2 (in 3.5/PF world anyway) thus any SLA's that mimic spells that are higher leveled then 2 are removed. Thus it would lose it's plane shift, wall of fire, gaseous form, permanent image and wish.
I'd also make the template take half of the targets HD and Class levels in equal portions and not permit the class levels to contribute to HD for the purpose of the above. Thus an Efreet Bard 6 would end up being a 5 HD Efreet with 3 Bard levels. But it would not have a halved HD of 4 for SLA purposes and thus pick back up Wall of Fire and Gaseous Form.
Wish I could claim credit for it, I think it might be Ashiel's fix? But ya no duplicating spells with costly material components would be a good idea to. Maybe give some leeway on costly components, but I do like continual light factories so I admit I'm biased.
I want an official version so that as a player no matter if I sit down with GM A or GM B, I know how the spell works.
You never have that guarantee with any GM.
To everyone else on this: my god, people, either be a GM with a backbone or don't try to pull every potentially vaguely worded thing through whatever loops you think you can and certainly don't act surprised when you run into someone who doesn't run it how you think it goes.
Then remove it from your game. That's the only way to gain the consistency you so desperately want.
Your army of free 15HD tarrasques involves no loopholes whatsoever. It doesn't take any form of stretched wording or awkward interpretation. Simulacrum as written is simply terrible and Blood Money makes it worse.I want an official version so that as a player no matter if I sit down with GM A or GM B, I know how the spell works.You never have that guarantee with any GM.
To everyone else on this: my god, people, either be a GM with a backbone or don't try to pull every potentially vaguely worded thing through whatever loops you think you can and certainly don't act surprised when you run into someone who doesn't run it how you think it goes.
It takes a very stretched spellcaster to cast 7500gps Blood money.
But we all agree Simulacrum is poorly worded, even the devs agree. There's a FAQ thread on this you know.
What does this have to do with Paragon Surge?
Wait, those are minutes per level effects, no? When they wear off aren't you at 0 str? Can you make it to your neighborhood cleric in time? What if you can't find one? What if he has better things to do?
Personally, I love this kind of theorycrafting. For every advantage you can invent for yourself I can match it with a disadvantage.
If you can't find a summon on your list with Restoration, or your party cleric can't be trusted, I think you have bigger problems. I absolutely have ways to mitigate the 50 STR damage I take when I cast free Wishes, thanks to Heal being just aces for chaincasting the Wishes to get inherent stat boosts. Standard action instant stat fix just great.
So whats my disadvantage match now? Genuinely curious Mr. I-Love-This-Kind-Of-Theorycrafting.
It takes a very stretched spellcaster to cast 7500gps Blood money.
But we all agree Simulacrum is poorly worded, even the devs agree. There's a FAQ thread on this you know
15 strength damage is nothing at level 13. Even if you start with a 7 Monstrous Physique III and Bulls Strength take that to 17. Just have your friendly local cleric hit you with restoration after you have cast it to clear the lot at once for 100gp or nothing if they have False Focus.
Alternatively you are level 13. Just magic jar into an Ogre with its base strength of 21. Its not as if an ogre is actually capable of doing anything to you at this level.
Umm, Simulacrum has a casting time of 12 hours, and Blood money must be used within one round.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
If you can't find a summon on your list with Restoration, or your party cleric can't be trusted, I think you have bigger problems. I absolutely have ways to mitigate the 50 STR damage I take when I cast free Wishes,
Doe your DM really allow you to get Unlimited Free wishes from Blood Money? If so, I think you have bigger problems than I.
Or you know they just do it while magic jarred into an ogre and don't take any damage at all.
Which, in effect makes you "immune from Strength Damage", no?
Yep, at which point you get into an argument about whether or not material components are used up at the start of the cast, during the whole period, or at the end. Really the whole thing is just a horrible mess and could do with being set on fire and rebuilt or, in the case of blood money, returned to the npc only plot device special effect it was originally created to be.Umm, Simulacrum has a casting time of 12 hours, and Blood money must be used within one round.It takes a very stretched spellcaster to cast 7500gps Blood money.
But we all agree Simulacrum is poorly worded, even the devs agree. There's a FAQ thread on this you know
15 strength damage is nothing at level 13. Even if you start with a 7 Monstrous Physique III and Bulls Strength take that to 17. Just have your friendly local cleric hit you with restoration after you have cast it to clear the lot at once for 100gp or nothing if they have False Focus.
Alternatively you are level 13. Just magic jar into an Ogre with its base strength of 21. Its not as if an ogre is actually capable of doing anything to you at this level.
Or you just use Wish or Miracle to cast it in a single round. Much easier, much more RAW. Though personally, I believe that as long as you start casting the spell the blood money components are for in the same round that components are being "used". Because you know... they are.
I can't guarantee you that my hypothetical blog is going to limit it down to an exact formula (well, I can't even guarantee the blog itself, but you know what I mean) since monsters can sometimes be all over the place with how they do what they do, so an exact formula may be impossible.Just to be clear it is not broken in the sense of being OP necessarily, but broken in the sense that it does not work all that well if every GM might give you a different answer. That is the broken I meant for this.I don't really have want them nerfed, but I do want Simulacrum fixed.How is it broken? Several folks from Paizo have commented on it being the GM's job to determine exactly what the copy gets.
You could have simulacrum subject to the same restrictions as summoned monsters and half the CL of all abilities.
That would prevent things like free wishes and lantern archon postal services.
I can't guarantee you that my hypothetical blog is going to limit it down to an exact formula (well, I can't even guarantee the blog itself, but you know what I mean) since monsters can sometimes be all over the place with how they do what they do, so an exact formula may be impossible.Just to be clear it is not broken in the sense of being OP necessarily, but broken in the sense that it does not work all that well if every GM might give you a different answer. That is the broken I meant for this.I don't really have want them nerfed, but I do want Simulacrum fixed.How is it broken? Several folks from Paizo have commented on it being the GM's job to determine exactly what the copy gets.You could have simulacrum subject to the same restrictions as summoned monsters and half the CL of all abilities.
That would prevent things like free wishes and lantern archon postal services.
Actually... reducing CL would do squat the Sno-Cone Wish Factory... altering whether they get SLAs or not would... but then you run into the issue of 'Well when would htey get it?" Because a lot of SLAs are intrinsic to the creature simply BEING what it is (like Aasimars have Daylight for simply BEING an aasimar).